Live PA's

im trying to think live pa's at the moment as ive lost my interest in djing for a few years now, just wondering how some of you guys set yourselves up - there must be a million ways, i guess im just tryin to pick brains for good ideas for more controll without spending the next year re-making all my tracks to put them into some other format or somthing...

heres what i am kinda toying with:

running ableton live with about 100 tracks of loops effects and so on...
having every 1-8 sent to different outputs and going into a big 10ch DJ mixer so ive got all the kills etc.. then i was thinking about having maybe a little su700 sampler or somthing to trigger little samples off, and a couple of mfc42 filters or somthing...
its not quite as 'live' as id like it really, but i cant think of a better way..
any advice??

i need to keep relativly compact too for obvious reasons

crime: you use an mpc dont you? how does that work? (ive got one that someone left in the studio but i havent looked into it yet really)
could i integrate somthing like that with my setup??

M8 first decision u gotta make is if u r going 2 take Laptop and a few little gadgets.. or 1 rack of synths/ drums efxs...

If u go the hardware way MPC really really rocks !!!! :) U can trigger or samples/ midi seq... but I guess this is mainly if u go the hardware way...


If u choose Laptop... good mixer.. good soundcard with pleaty of out puts.. GOOD MIDI CONTROLLER WITH PLENTY OF BIG PHAT KNOBS.. for it's simplicity I would go 4 Electrix & pioneer efx 500.. also I'm not so sure a dj mixer would b apropriate really..

i guess Live and Sx would do the trick

Z

the pioneer fx 500 is the most simplistic exex unit ever. But it works really well.

yeah, dean had one of those - kept telling me it was the nuts, ive never tried one..
i have got quite a few dj fx tho as i do a lot of 'live' bits in the studio..
got an electrix eq killer and a mofx as well as mfc42 filter - soon to be two mfc's..
i was thinking of one flightcase with a load of hardware plus lappie..
im thinking maybe its time to get my head round this mpc2000

My Live setup consists of:
MPC 2000 with the 8 out expansion...
Nord Modular Keyboard
Studio Quad FX

MPC 2000:
this is the heart of my setup, you can sequence 64 tracks either on the internal sampler or 32 channels of external midi (It has 2 midi ins 2 midi outs), reads standard midi files so you can knock up some riffs in logic, save to a floppy then load back up in the mpc.. I personally have got into playing stuff in, you can play stuff in either off the 16 drum pads or off an external keyboard.. The sampler side of the mpc is cool, but more suited to Drums hits and loops.. You can't spread a sample across the keyboard, each pad is set to a different midi note... it does have a basic 12db/oct filter, with a very basic envelope, I find it a bit restrictive, if I really want to filter a sample, I reroute it thru the audio ins of the modular, and then I can have any filter I want, plus vocoders, ring mod, Bit Crunching etc....
Basically I use this for all my drums except the kik, plus whatever vocal samples and the odd loop I use sometimes.. I'm not really a big one for loops.... I got mine second hand for £550 with a Zip drive +16mb ram... you rarely need more ram than this, but any extra is a bonus of course...

Nord Modular Keyboard:
4 Synths in one and a whole lot more, I use 2 of the "Slots" as they're known for synth sounds, one for external processing, and the 4th for my kick drums.. I find you get punchier Kicks synthesised out of the modular, and more bassey kiks too.. when Kiks are sampled (or anything for that matter) there is a defined top and bottom end i.e. most recording or audio gear will not reproduce anything below 20hz or above 15khz.. the modular has no such restriction, which on the downside can mean blown up rigs if you're not carefull... The synth itself is based on the same engine as the Nord lead 2 and 3, in fact, there is a factory preset inside the synth that is called "Nord lead 3" which is the nord 3 inside the modular... you can edit the sounds and create new sounds in the same way that you would using Reaktor or the new moog modular plug in, on the computer via your midi interface, but the advantage is, with this you can take the hardware away and you have all the sounds inside.... you can also assign the 16 front panel knobs to any parameter on a patch, and there is a "Panel split" mode which allows you to have access to 6 parameters on the first 2 slots and 3 on the second 2... As I said before I use slot 3 as an audio processing patch, I can reroute any sound from the desk thru the bus outs, so I can filter, vocode or bitcrunch any sound that goes thru the desk.. I can't speak highly enough of this synth, it's my favorite bit of kit, and has a price tag to match... originally priced at about £1500, you can probably get one second hand these days for about £650/700...

Studio Quad FX.

Cool 4 channel fx unit, loads of cool effects, some quality reverbs (Not as good as a lexicon,but good enough)....

I normally get the venue/promotors to provide a 16 channel 4 bus mixer and audio leads if I'm having to get a flight with this lot... I can fit it in a large suitcase, and it weighs in at about 19/20kg...

I must say I've got a lot more into playing live in the past year, but sometimes it's a real drag having to pack your shit up after you've played before you can even have a beer, plus you got the risk of drink spillage of your precious kit... Last week I had to spend an hour with my modular in bits and a bottle of switch cleaner to hand after someone had spilled their beer over it...

at the end of the day it's worth it, there's no feeling on earth like hearing your kit thundering over a quality rig, and whilst sometimes I think about trading it in for a laptop and a copy of ableton live, i don't think it's quite the same as having some cool looking boxes with flashing lights and a spaghetti of leads going everywhere...... and really fat bass!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimfish

i was thinking of one flightcase with a load of hardware plus lappie..
im thinking maybe its time to get my head round this mpc2000

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Suitcases are the way to go, especially if you're flying... find a large plastic one with wheels and a trolly handle... then go to a foam shop, you can find one on most markets, and get some big bits of foam cut to size....

if you're flying places, a flightcase can be asking for trouble, it stands out a mile as something expensive and fragile, and baggage handlers are notorious for larking around with anything that looks slightly out of the ordinary...

yeah cheers dude..
what i was thinking with the flightcase is that i can have all me shit all wired up ready to go - and i can get one of those cases with extendable handle and little wheels..
but i hear what you are saying about baggage handers, never mind the fact that ill stick out like a boner on the bus..

all my sound is just sooo processed though - its gonna be a mission taking everything and getting it all into the mpc.. guess ill have to try it at least.

yeah i agree, i dont think i could do it off just a laptop.. i need to have loads of buttons to press and knobs to tweak!
ta! :wink:

ive been looking for a foam shop for months! i resent paying for those ****ing acoustic tiles at studiospares - my old man tells me that most foam shops stock all that dimply acoustic foam, but for about 100000000th of the price..

what you gotta remember if your getting flights is weight, and the magic 20kg.. I've got away with up to 26kg before, but I got charged £40 EACH WAY on a flight from east midlands to glasgow for having a 30kg suitcase... this is why I don't take my own leads, I have to take power leads, but anything else that is pretty standard, get the club to provide if possible... also if you use an mpc, you can always get the club to provide an MPC and just bring your zip drive and a disk, I did this when I went to australia earlier in the year...
you could use the MPC kind of like a modular hardware version of ableton i.e. take loops of your trax, cut em up, put on a floppy, load into the mpc (It reads .wav and. aiff files), and then reroute your sounds thru your filters/ eqs using bus 3+4 on the mixer or via inserts... does the mpc have the output expansion? you can also get an fx board (same one that goes in the s series samplers)....
for the foam, you want to check out a bog standard market (Like romford market or something like that)

The mpc is great for the "Track mute" feature, you can mute all the tracks in and out using the drum pads, really great for live jamming, crazy drum breaks, things like that... I would suggest rather than trying to transfer all your stuff over to the mpc, start writing your trax using your live set up (which is what I do). I then record live jams into something like soundforge then edit out any mistakes and do the arrangement like that, you can take the audio from the beginning and stick it at the end or visa versa, loop up any jammed bits that really rock and generally get a more organic feel to your stuff... it's a really productive way to work as well, you don't end up with 300 unfinished loops in Logic that you can't be arsed to finished.. Also I really like the idea that people hear stuff live and 6 months or a year down the line some of the same material appears on vinyl... I think you'll find moving all your stuff over to the MPC a real pain, personally I feel when you play live it's a real oppertunity to play stuff that no-one has heard.. having said that I do leave the odd thing in my live act, and you can really tell the stuff that has lasting appeal.... also, you could prove me wrong and do some really corking re-edits on your old stuff... the important thing is to EXPERIMENT...

BTW, if you want to know how to get into the "Track Mute" page, on the old mpc (Not XL) put the cursor over the track on/off bit and hit open window... I think the XL has a button dedicated to it, but you cannot switch patterns without coming out of this page on the XL (one of the advantages of the older version)

yeah, i guess this is the way to go.. of course weight will be an issue with a bigger setup, good point.. i should have remembered that from all the times ive had to carry stupid amounts of morrocan carpets as hand luggage.. the practiality of it all really is a big thing..
hmm, she's a tricky one allright.
this mpc is 4 outs - that'll need to be upgraded - maybe i should go pc with a load of control surfaces - akai do a controller with pads on just like the mpc and maybe that new novation thingy - then i just need my 828 and ADAT converter too - still need those anaogue filters though.. bollox this is a tricky one... ive been putting this off for a while but i seriously have to start thinking about it or ill be missing out..
better just start playing around and experimenting in my, errr, spare time.. cheers for the words guys!

oh, sorry dude - we must have been typing at the same time.. great minds eh!

go for the mpc..
everyone is doing laptop live, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be diferent... you'll get a more unique sound too...

that track mute function sounds dope. be wicked to go apeshit on for ****ed up breaks etc...
i dont think i could write in the mpc though - i need all those cute little functions & fx in sx as they are an integral part of my sound.
getting the promoters to supply certain gear is somthing that had completly slipped my mind too - nice one!!

your like a little devil on my shoulder tempting me into that mpc..

Gwan! you know you want to! Try it! it won't get you hooked! :twisted: :twisted:

and the quantize/ shuffle on the mpc is quite unique.. also the key repeat/ filter funtion... eheheh...

Still Mark I havent' touched 1 4 a while but I seem 2 remember creating a prog. with a sample spread over the pads with diferent tunings just like a normal keyboard... but i could b wrong!!

Z

you can do it on the 4000 but not the 2000.... you could assign the same sound to every pad, but you would have to tune them all seperatly...

yeah im defo gonna get it out.. Ive heard a few bits other poeple have done on em and they do have a very 'tight' sound - i think ill find a way of integrating it into the studio and getting used to it to start wiv..
cheeers you boys

right maybe that was it .. but i gotta somethin' on the back of my mind about mapping a sound cromathacly


Z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crime

you can do it on the 4000 but not the 2000.... you could assign the same sound to every pad, but you would have to tune them all seperatly...

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Pressing the 16 level button will open a dialog box and by choosing note variation, you will spread the sample over the pads. It is possible to choose the attack, decay and filter to be spread around too. The decay option is very good for making livelier hihat lines etc. You won't need an open and a closed hihat, just use one long one and vary the decay. The filter-thingy is useless, because the filters on the mpc are crap.

One fun thing is (with a small sample) using note variation and then pressing the repeat button down. This way you can use the mpc as a sort of a synthesizer. Try using different time signatures too. With a 32nd(third) you can even create pads. If you decide to use a longer sample, I'd advice you to not to have the sound in a polyphonic mode, since there will be loads and loads of sounds creating the longer sound. I prefer the mono-mode anyway with this working method.

I like the mpc vey much thank you.

hey,

that's what I call an entrance!!

Thanks 4 yer insites... Mark go and check it out... like I said I kinda had a feeling of having donne something similar long time ago!!

Thanks Koala,
Z

I once saw the Holy Ghost live P.A. I was convinced they had the full studio with them there on the stage, couldnt beleave the amount of kit they had. I have no experiance in P.A's but I will learn this shit some day, ineteresting topic. Me's going to study it 8)

We (Vincent de Wit and me) use a Yamaha RS7000, 1 or 2 Yamaha SU700 a Xone464 mixer, Alesis Ineko and an Alesis AirFX
Vincent plays on 2 SU700's en I play on the RS7000. Each plays his own tracks, in turns, mixing the 2 styles together. I concentrate on my own stuff and my mate on his stuff. One tries to continue with what the other one was doing, pushing it further every time. There's no planning at all before a gig, just who's the one to start the set.

I think it's much easier doing it with 2 instead of doing it alone. When you play alone, you will always have 1 particular sound, your own. It can be fabtastic, but can get boring. With 2 you can combine and make a set more interesting. I make stuff that my mate never would make and vice versa. Combine that and you have something that can be interesting.

We like it this way because it's flexible. We can do everything we want, improvise, extend, remix etc...

The RS7000 is used in pattern mode - 16 midi tracks per song, cutoff, diff. filters, mute/unmute, fading and combining tracks.
The RS7000 has a warm, very pure sound.

SU700's: loop-based. This machine has a more metal sound, different as the RS700. It can sound really dirty, has nice LFO's and a few good efx.

Machines are synced with eachother with midi.

For us this is the best setup. Setting up@ a gig only takes 15 minutes. Not too many cables and it always works. Never crashes.
The only thing is that you really have to learn how to play your tracks and improvise live.

In the beginning we took half the studio with us, but there's always something tha can go wrong of something you forget to connect.
Too much hassle.

Of course every liveact has it's own solution.This is just one of many. :roll:

Remember when playing live to take a backup - especially if you're relying on a PC. So, bring along a portable MD, or a CD, or something you can plug into the system and press 'play' if things go pear. There's nothing worse than 30+ seconds of dead air while you reset your machine...

And I HAVE seen this happen! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Traditionally, getting a hardware sequencer or 'groove box' type device - Roland and Yamaha do good ones - is seen as the stable way of doing it. Hardware sequencers are far more bullet-proof... Apart from drums they generally have crap on-board sounds though.

Not that you'll be using them. You should be able to get away with a groove box, a multi-timbral synth and a sampler. And a mixer.

Yet another way to do it is to bring in two impressive looking keyboards, and a DAT/MD/CD. And a mixer. Play your tracks off tape/CD, and add a few pads, tunes, arps, etc. over the top.

Again, I've seen this happen! Not really very 'live' in my book though.

T*

yeah that sound like the one..

perfect for me cos im not really interested in the tunes i just want to stand up there looking hot in front of hundreds of adoring fans..

i think the most important thing is to make sure you PRACTISE... practise your hunky love-god poses that is so all the ladies go weak at the knees!

*ahem*

rather worryngly i know djs that really do behave like that!

as Mobile Dogwash we have taken the easiest option, which is only half live really, but it is the best or only way of presenting our tracks live as a whole that we've got right now
using an eight track hard disk recorder we record onto paired tracks - 1 & 2 and 3 & 4, playing the finished tunes from a pitchable cd deck onto tracks 1&2 for the first tune, 3&4 for the second tune, and so on ... synchronising and beat matching them like you would if you were mixing records ... we then run this thru a dj mixer to be able to layer the tunes up live and cut it up proper techno style
i'm more than loath to take our kit out live, especially our 02/R digital desk
as far as i see it most punters would not know the difference and as long as it sounds good they are happy
i'd like to make it more involved live for us, but we have only got a limited amount of time to spend and i'd rather be working on a new track than anything else so ...
we had a power out about ten minutes into a gig on new years eve - if we had all the studio out and i had got to reboot and load up all our kit i reckon it would have taken a lot longer than the minute (or was it three hours - certainly felt like that at the time) it took to get things going again ;)

its all about octave one live!!!!!!! mpcs - live keys - drum machines and the burden bros!

my set up is really quite simple and maybe not completely live

We use a laptop running sx with all of our tracks sequenced out and then we right extra 909 patterns ontop of the tracks,
the 909 is seperated out into a mackie 1604 and we have compression, fx and a sherman filter bank.
The output from the mackie is then sent into a djm 500 with the laptop's audio in another channel.
Its handy cause there is two of us and it gives us both something to do.
one person on the djm and the other on the mackie with th fx and that.
We only played live for the first time in about three years so i'm looking to expand what we do on stage with software etc, some really good ideas here though.
The first time i played live i had an atari st with me playing loops from my sampler :shock:

I still Think MPC + Hardware sampler with each audio track (looped) from the original song plus one or 2 synths + mixer does the trick so nicely!! :)

Z

Yamaha SU10 mini sampler, mint, boxed, instructions, available for £100 if ya need on:
sterlzuk@yahoo.co.uk
Cheers!

Remember that hardware is often stolen at airports so try to make it as portable as possible and bring as hand luggagre.

In other words: Laptop+midi controller (e.g. Midiman Oxygen 8)

U can always get' em 2 rent stuff... thus bringing only Zip Drives!!

Z

yeah, im working on mine at the mo using laptop, MPC, midi cont. & FX - i can fit it all into hand luggage which is sweeeeet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DJ Ze MigL

U can always get' em 2 rent stuff... thus bringing only Zip Drives!!

Z

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ive heard a few nightmare stories of people turning up to gigs and being supplied total shite equipment though :(

:lol: about rent the stuff for LivePA,.,it sounds like a joke.In my country it"s just a illusion. No equipment like this is for rent, and the club's boss don't care about your f*ing PA.. :lol:

Well U can always try... Make sure U call 2 days b4 and check if the equipment checks out...

Have U looked into the all new MPC100??

Z