producing full time??

most (not all) of us here obviously want to make a living producing music, but has anyone here actually taken the risk of doing it full time? i know its really hard to do, especially if you're just making techno, but ive been thinking of doing this full time now, leave the job and just focus on releasing music.....after all this is what i want to do

i dont plan on just releasing techno, i want to be open to lots of other opportunities, cause honestly, i want to make whatever i want to make, wether it be hard techno, deep techno, minimal, hardcore/industrial, house, hip hop whatever.......

my question is, has anyone here started doing this or will start this anytime soon?

i wish

wouldn't have the balls... plus she'd shoot me.

the only way to produce techno full time iis to go on the dole. that way your rent gets paid, you get a bit of cash to pop outside to get some cigs every week and you can lock yourself away. but this isn't particualrly making a living is it? i think in non-commercial music you have to do lots of things to be able to do it full time. i have my djing, that brings in the cash and enables me to do everything else i want to do during the week - the site, the studio (but none of that brings in any money at all really). but what i suppose it does do is increase awareness of what i'm involved in, which then helps get a few dj gigs.

i'd say if you wanted to sit in a studio and produce music on a full-time basis, i'd need to be producing something in that studio that isn't techno. perhaps music for adverts or soundtracks.

shitty i know, but it's a reality.

true.. thats what mark did in the beginning with the old kinetec studio. and ant has done mtv stuff.. selling your soul to pay your bills is ok in my book.

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Originally Posted by rhythmtech

selling your soul to pay your bills is ok in my book.

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I strongly disagree. Making (shitty) music to pay the bills takes fun and passion out of it and will only burn you out - the last thing that you wanna do after making crap for days on end is go BACK to the studio, it's the last place you'll want to be. Plus, you can't tell me that you're music doesn't get compromised by HAVING to do it to make money - this is precisely the reason that there are so many shitty releases - especially by bigger names - they release 2nd rate shit because they have to in order to eat and they know idiots will buy it.

machina

music for adverts can be pretty damn good tho. i'd hardly call it selling your soul if you make a mind bending electro track and the whole nation is bopping away to it in their front rooms.

i for one have an interest in sound engineering as a whole, not just writing techno and electro

yeah i was recently chatting to steve stoll annd he tells me he's stil making the odd techno track but now working on sample cd's and filmscores to pay the bills. i think this is wicked. certainly a direction i'd like to go in later on in life if the dj schedule ever gets the better of me. just basically make beautiful ambient music or work with sound effects during the week for films, create the odd sample cd and then, bam when you're feeling inspired, make some techno for nothing but pure satisfaction.

let's be honest, you're really not going to make good techno if you're thinking 'wow this beats gonna make me milllions!!!' hahaha

jesus people.. some of you really need to get out more :doh:

look at eric prydz... now thats selling your soul in style! but you still gotta respect the man totally for his better work...

whatever pays the bills is what i say. no point in staying totally underground if it doesn't put bread on the table... most top producers will do a commercially viable tune to make money.. AND THEY DESERVE EVERY PENNY OF IT cause they have the balls to do it.

I on the other hand will stick to my 9 to 5... speaking of which.. its way past my bedtime.

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

yeah i was recently chatting to steve stoll annd he tells me he's stil making the odd techno track but now working on sample cd's and filmscores to pay the bills. i think this is wicked. certainly a direction i'd like to go in later on in life if the dj schedule ever gets the better of me. just basically make beautiful ambient music or work with sound effects during the week for films, create the odd sample cd and then, bam when you're feeling inspired, make some techno for nothing but pure satisfaction.

let's be honest, you're really not going to make good techno if you're thinking 'wow this beats gonna make me milllions!!!' hahaha

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i knew i was going wrong somewhere :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

let's be honest, you're really not going to make good techno if you're thinking 'wow this beats gonna make me milllions!!!' hahaha

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damn, i gotta re-think my plans now :doh:

who defines selling your soul anyway?/???.... this is simply a purist approach. ok ill never make cheesyass vocal techno..... but if someone asked me to make sh*tty ringtones as a basic-living, i tihnk i would do it!!!! anything to keep out of an office!!! i make the odd commercial webpage... and while im doing so... although into graphics/art, i dont try to push any boundaries...just fire up any ol' site, just as long as the gaffers happy!!!

if i could get paid to expand my knowledge on musical equipment, which i always want to be doing, i would definatly do....

besides i already sold my soul to techno!!! member the simpsons!!!!!!

It's not just making a different type of music or expanding the boundaries of what it is you do - i think that working on soundtracks etc. is great and definately a worthy thing to do. BUT - i think that the whole concept of making music as your one and only source of income can generally lead to substandard results, no matter what type of music you are making. Stuff gets released all the time that really shouldn't be, and i think producers know when they've done something worthwhile, and when they've done something a bit average, but if you need to make money, the average stuff still pays the bills, so it gets released. It only does harm imo.

machina

very bloody interesting discussion if you ask me :clap: :clap: :clap:

yea i dont think think producing techno is an easy full time job.....i think like MArk, the idea of techno is a fulltime job.... studio+label+gigs+site+promotion, there are some real dedicated people out there.

but production wise, if you're lucky, and you know a few film students...things could expand from that, its something i dream of doing.. gettin paid for something you love!!! and respect to anyone who does it

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who defines selling your soul anyway?/???

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Yeah...I think people tend to get pretty bloody precious about money and art. What the heck is wrong with doing art for money? It's still creative, it's still art. What's wrong with giving people what they want i.e. selling out? Someone's getting entertained, somebody else is getting paid.

Perhaps it's confusing the emotions that the music inspires by listening with it with the process of creation itself. It's possible to create something beautiful and magical for completely mercenary and cynical reasons, such as wanting to eat. Maybe it's like sausages and laws; those who like them shouldn't see how they were made.

I guess fans of music don't like the idea of it being just another service industry.

Daft Punk is an example I think I've referred to on this board on one occasion before, but he/they are an excellent point in case for how selling out can work:
1) Admitted in interviews that he actually doesn't like the disco house stuff he does, would much rather be DJing hard techno, but "it's the only thing I'm good at."
2) Process of creation often consists of borrowing big loops of material largely unaltered. Robot Rock is a good example - a listen to the original track it came from puts things in perspective (and disappointed a few people who compared the two for that matter).

So their attitude towards their own work and the process of creation itself could be described as cynical - should Daft Punk not exist?

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Originally Posted by rounser

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who defines selling your soul anyway?/???

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Yeah...I think people tend to get pretty bloody precious about money and art. What the heck is wrong with doing art for money? It's still creative, it's still art. What's wrong with giving people what they want i.e. selling out? Someone's getting entertained, somebody else is getting paid.

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Well, from a certain point-of-view, the problem is that you're potentially perpetuating stupidity and mediocrity. I think this is a different issue though - there's nothing wrong with making money from music - i just think that it can and often does lead to shit when it is a NECESSITY to make music, rather than something you do when you are feeling it.

machina

I understand and agree with what machina is saying. I would like to add that most music that is a NECESSITY in terms of an income, by nature of the process becomes formulaic and results in a bland and unimaginative format. Each song is "typical" and more akin to a jingle rather than an emotive expression.

Having said that, music for film or advertising or Pop-music requires this approach and is therefore a business orientation. Its unfortunate that this format of music is accepted as mainstream and generally what all other music is measured against. We get truly creative original compositions measured against a very low common denominator. Thats what economics does to everything we do in this day and age.

I have struck a happy medium whereby I work just enough hours in a physically intensive job (to provide money & exercise at the same time) which allows me to upgrade gear and pay bills without tying me down too much. I find that after doing this for a while I now have a great cycle with no guilt and plenty of opportunity for stimulation in order to create Live sets & tracks. I have tried many methods but this is by far the best set-up for me ever :)

I have never expected to live off my music financially....its purely for a lifestyle for me.

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Well, from a certain point-of-view, the problem is that you're potentially perpetuating stupidity and mediocrity. I think this is a different issue though - there's nothing wrong with making money from music - i just think that it can and often does lead to shit when it is a NECESSITY to make music, rather than something you do when you are feeling it.

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I dunno man - aren't there plenty of people out there doing a good job of work they hate? Even creative work?

What about someone who likes techno, but hates the process of producing it, and does so anyway? What about someone who's a good producer, but hates the result, but knows that others like it?

It seems to me that people are very fast to couple the act of creation and the reasons for it with the result. Sure it's a huge advantage if you're into what you're making, but I don't think stupidity and mediocrity are necessarily the result if you're not, either...nor if you're just doing it for the money. Doing a good job regardless of those factors has a name; "professionalism".

For me music has always been about getting about and meeting new people, going new places and enjoying making music.

It's both a therapy and a drug. Im lucky, my job means that i work in studios and with artists all day long, and i can get to learn to play instruments.

Music already pays my bills for me, but not in a way that will give me fame and fortune.

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Originally Posted by rounser

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Well, from a certain point-of-view, the problem is that you're potentially perpetuating stupidity and mediocrity. I think this is a different issue though - there's nothing wrong with making money from music - i just think that it can and often does lead to shit when it is a NECESSITY to make music, rather than something you do when you are feeling it.

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I dunno man - aren't there plenty of people out there doing a good job of work they hate? Even creative work?

What about someone who likes techno, but hates the process of producing it, and does so anyway? What about someone who's a good producer, but hates the result, but knows that others like it?

It seems to me that people are very fast to couple the act of creation and the reasons for it with the result. Sure it's a huge advantage if you're into what you're making, but I don't think stupidity and mediocrity are necessarily the result if you're not, either...nor if you're just doing it for the money. Doing a good job regardless of those factors has a name; "professionalism".

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I understand what you're saying and i agree to some extent - but i'm very much a perfectionist when it comes to any form of art and i think i can tell the difference between something that someone has put 110% passion, feeling and skill into, and something that is lacking in those areas. It's often the difference between a masterpiece and something which doesn't quite make it, and i'm not interested in stuff that doesn't quite make it... i know that that's a bit of an elitist point-of-view and not every track has to be the greatest thing ever done etc... i just think if you're gonna do it, ****ing do it right! :)

machina

yeah, I've been thinking about this lately, and I've come to the conclusion that I would be totally *creatively* happy working for some tv or film or games. Think about it, if you write whatever form of electronic music it is you love, and they're asking you to write for them...you should still feel like you're creatively writing music that inspires you, but that it is just meant to be heard in a different way, as an 'accessory' to other mediums. People like Photek, Amon Tobin etc have done stuff for movies and games, and look at games like Midnight club 1 and 2 which licensed big techno, house, dnb and trance tunes to their games, that's pretty f'in cool in my opinion.

There is porobably more honesty in making music for games , films and tv than if you are employing and trying to have a *hit*.
I THINK THATS JUST UGLY

This is a tricky subject. Do what you must....but make sure you enjoy it :)

I don't reckon that making music that you're not keen on the pay the bills is any different to any other shitty job - so long as it doesn't drain you for what you want to do. Didn't the guy who played Keyboards for the spice girls get it in his contract that thy shipped his mobile studio round the world on the spiceowrld tour. And doesn't robert miles always contend that that dreadful dreamtrance business was a calculated business venture..?

For me though I guess I prefer to keep it as relaxaation... ..at the moment

nice topic, ,.. i f we§re talking about making music for movies,,games,and so on,.would like to know, how many people here has the most important thing,,contatcs to people who are choosing the music for these games,,movies.
if you dont have some good contacts or friends on the right positions.,.,or you're not steve stoll,,amon tobin,,or someone like that,., i think,,there's no chance .,but would ilke to be wrong,.

i think its rather way of life (full time producer) for hardcore mother****ers that like risk and they are smart enough to see many evants and changes in music. fast enough to be fresh with style and go forward.

I quit my job a few month ago so I could get stuck into making some music in the way that I felt I needed to.
Dont get me wrong there is no way that I am thinking that im going to make any money out of it it was just a fact that between my other half,music and my job somthing had to give as none were getting my energy and focus the way that i wanted them to so I got rid of the thing that was least important too me(the job and good money)
Its only for about a year.
Im happy and managing moneywise plus I have a very understanding girlfriend.

As for making other forms of music for a way of paying the bills, to me thats the perfect dream.
Be it computer games, tv, film, whatever, You can still be innovative in the way you do it you dont have to "sell out" you can still do these things your way.
;)

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Originally Posted by machina

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Originally Posted by rhythmtech

selling your soul to pay your bills is ok in my book.

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I strongly disagree. Making (shitty) music to pay the bills takes fun and passion out of it and will only burn you out - the last thing that you wanna do after making crap for days on end is go BACK to the studio, it's the last place you'll want to be. Plus, you can't tell me that you're music doesn't get compromised by HAVING to do it to make money - this is precisely the reason that there are so many shitty releases - especially by bigger names - they release 2nd rate shit because they have to in order to eat and they know idiots will buy it.

machina

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with any job there shit things that have to be done. Even if your a music producer doing the shitty stuff has to be done. Thats why they can produce music full time. I'd make a cheesy euro trance tune once a week if it ment i didnt have to work the rest of the week!

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Originally Posted by fresh_an_funky_design

I'd make a cheesy euro trance tune once a week if it ment i didnt have to work the rest of the week!

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i wouldn't. can't think of anything worse to do with my time really.

machina

I gave up everything to make music for about two years and I don't regret a single day of it. However, I do regret every single day I go into work to pay for those two years instead of being able to get on with my current affairs. It will take a full 12 months to fully pay for the time I spent producing all the time. Mind you, it's a bargain considering how long some graduates have to work to pay off their three years at uni.

One thing I will say though... Producing full time is pointless. Music must be a soundtrack to life and not the whole of it. If you're not getting out there being hurt and angered and annoyed or pleased and enthused about stufff then it will reflect in the music you make and you and your music will be boring.

Now I'm working I make fewer tracks but the track I do make ar far better than I could ever have imagined making a year ago adn the opportunity to listen to my old stuff having had a break has allowed me to view my works objectivly and through this I have learned to perfect some of them. Something you simply cannot do if you're playing with techno all the time.

Those long quiet bus journeys to work have given me the headspace to consider what I truly want from music. Sometimes listening to silence gives you more insight into what sounds should be like.

Producing full time left me broke, very ill, socially inept (more so than now) and jealous of just about everyone who had a life and the ability to do simple things like pay into a club or go for a curry.

Eventually you hit rock bottom if you're not workiing and sometime you get yourself so deep in a hole you just can't climb out. I was lucky that a very kind lady reached out to me and pulled me out of that rut. I was falling to bits and I'd lost sight of the simple things in life you're supposed to enjoy. Even good bread and nice cheese seemed like something only rich folks could have.

My roof was leaking and I kept running out of electricity on the meter and there was nothing I could do and no-one I could borrow from and my clothes were threadbare. It's the closest I've been to poverty and was only ojne step up from homeless for a long time. I didn't like it one bit.

I now have a responsibility to myself to make sure I never get that lonely, depressed, skint or ill again. In hindsight I admire my former self for dedication to the cause and the blind faith that it would be rewarded and it was rewarded to some small extent but the people who did well out of my efforts were the least deserving of them.

Successful living is about balance. Excesses of anything is the road to ruin.

In terms of techno, it's a well being thing. It requires much thought and much effort and if you're not looking after yourself there no way in hell you can expect your music to reflect well on you. A tired clouded mind produces tired clouded music.

brilliant post :clap: couldn't agree more.

machina

Ditto. A really inspiring read.

I've actually found that I play guitar allot better now than I used to because ironically I haven't been practicing. Before hand I'd play scales, practice arpegios and do fnger exercises for 2 hours a day, and you know what? I got completely bored of playing guitar. Now I've reached the same point with techno. Time for a break.

Decent post from you for a change that Pedro.
Its a shame that you didnt use your time in this deep hole to make some decent depression inspired techno.
Hehe I am of course pulling yer leg.

Is a good read that.

100% agree with Machina

Yeah, I`ve done my time on poverty row for my music.
I`m lucky to now have a very well paying job, in which I can work as many hours as I choose.
But I`m looking to move more full time in the studio, as I don`t just make techno, there is a lot I can do with the other music.
So if you want to go full time into the studio, do something other than techno, variety is the spice of life, and making the same type of music all the time will lead you to repeated methods etc anyway.
As for selling your soul? why, you can make very commercial music and still put your heart and soul into it without compromising your integrity.

"So if you want to go full time into the studio, do something other than techno"

It's still sitting in a room in front of shiny boxes and never going out whther you're making avant garde hip hop jaz or acid gabba tho.

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Originally Posted by machina

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Originally Posted by fresh_an_funky_design

I'd make a cheesy euro trance tune once a week if it ment i didnt have to work the rest of the week!

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i wouldn't. can't think of anything worse to do with my time really.

machina

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Yeah, I have to agree, you can be commercial without being derivative and damaging.

Making stuff that actually has a negative effect, say for dance mousic, by cheapning it, and skewing peoples perspective of it, ie making cheap, thoughtless pop dance, is ugly.

If you make something commercial, in the fact that it gives a wider scope of people enjoyment, yet you still do it with passion and emotion, there is a big difference. You can make a big commercial dance tune, that just explodes (for example) yet isn`t about repeating a format, or pandering to the norm.

not everything that becomes commercial or a hit, is necessarily bad or mindless.

But you can tell the stuff that is made to formula and format, ie Westlife, from the more genuine.

I'd love to quit and produce.

But I'm not very good, and it would be the equivalent of quitting to concentrate on professional sumo wrestling.

I'd settle for having much, much more free time and not working 50 hours a week. A day off a week would be amazing. But in my industry that is never, ever going to happen.

grumble grumble