The UK Acid Techno Scene...

Just read this in the Cluster thread and thought it should be made into a post of its own. I'd love to hear your thoughts...

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Having just returned to the UK from Germany after 2 years, some things are glaringly obvious and this includes what my mates in the UK say(producers, DJs, scene bods etc etc):

The uk techno RECORDS market is dying primarily because people don't buy as much anymore.

The London techno scene just degraded itself into a crack party for students.

As with every 'going concern', no one (London techno people) tought that the bottom would fall out and just sat back and actually did not play acid techno (with the exception of Chris and a few others).

Record shops just do not want to stock up on the London techno stuff and acid in particular - because there really isn't that vibe that was created through the squat parties...and I don't just mean Lee Techtonic and Insanity either

The German / European / Hard scene just happened to be quite teutonic and lucky...that they have got a lot of younger punters around, quite mobile and able to go to parties outside of the borders - we need to use some poxy Eurostar / Easyjet to get out of our little island

The fact that a lot of labels might be considering a new style is because this style indeed has some energy in it that (in my opinion) the commercial and non-commercial hard house scene just sucked away - Kinetec before the new incarnation was a culprit - I don't think Mark cared much about supporting one scene

UK Distributors are more keen to import and sell here than source talent here and distribute outside

Eventually, it comes down to one thing I suppose...just like every other style that has evolved, say in London, with the Schoom -> Rave -> Hardcore -> Club UK -> blah blah...we will always be influenced by others outside and evolve...otherwise Stay Up Forever will be releasing with Choci's Choons. Also, even classic acid labels like routemaster have gone through their own journeys...

Coming after a while to the UK / London scene, it seems like people are more interested in shoving loads of powder in small 'intimate' posey vocal house parties - middle class schtik!

Look at all our Label owner DJs...they all play outside, different 'firms' colonise certain parts of the world and sell their own records...gone are the days when we sold our style, city and country in general

See what 9 years of comfortable New Labour life has done for us all...I say bring back the tories - watch the squat parties spark up the rebellious London / UK scene that made us world famous...it ain't them mate...it's us...we are the procrastinators

Note to self: must go and book flights to all the wicked Teknival parties that will be happening Euro wide while our councils sell off Hackney Marshes etc to property developers so we can all buy houses and have house parties and play that once-famous style of music called Acid Techno to our friends and reminisce

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Your thoughts?

Valid points or not?

interesting, definetly agree with a lot of whats bein said

yeah defo a good post and agree with pretty much everything said.

I agree with most of what you say, although I believe its important for any music to evolve and I'm not sure how "cutting edge" acid techno really is these days. My experience of the London scene (limited as it is) is not the best one. Every squat party I have ever been to was marred by drug induced violence, whether it was dealers kicking off or people to wasted to know what they were doing was pissing off genuine party heads. It seems to me the whole scene is heading towards a crucial moment, adapt or fade away. I don't think it will die suddenly, just that in 10 years time raves will be something that are held in your local community centre and attended by people who enjoy reminiscing about better days. UNLESS people start to realise partying is about a communal buzz, enjoying the music with your fellow partyhead, knowing that the guy dancing on the stack of speakers is buzzing off the same thing as you! Going out to buy records and going round your mates house to show them what you've bought! These days I don't know ANYONE who regularly goes to a record shop to choose tunes, EVERYONE buys online! Another breakdown in the dance community! Face to face interaction between friends is dwindling, and I include myself as a culprit of this. I'll go on MSN to chat with friends who live a 1/2 hr's drive away because its easier. 5 years ago I wouldn't even have considered this, I'd just get in the car and go. Internet = conveniance, conveniance = laziness!!
This all leads me to this question! Just how positive an influence is the internet?

go back to your margerine martin ;)

if it wasnt for the net i would never have met you lot... the net is great - its how people use it that isnt.

anyway.. back to the point. i think the acid scene is being ruined by too many sub-standard records. i mean i love what chris, guy et all have done in the past but there is such a thing as overkill. stayupforever was destined to be one of the truly all time great labels but that was ruined by a lot of releases that were just pish poor with no thought put into them. they werent "oldskool" or "nuskool" or anything. they were just pale imitations of previous greats.
stayup seems to be back on track with the last few releases and i hope it stays there because it has a special place in me.
other labels from that scene i think are on the right track. skank are bringing out fresh sounds while keeping the underlying acid ethos and chris's new superconductor label is a welcome change... possibly where cluster should/could have went a long time ago... as for cluster, great label from day one but a little lacking in direction these days. i'm not knocking that and i'll stand by what i said b4 about it being a good idea to bring artists like kay d and tadox onboard to see what happens, but i think at the moment scon sounds a lot more focused and stable..

anyway thats just my ramble. at the end of the day wtf do i know. its very hard for labels to get it right all the time but the "acid/london/whatever" labels seem to hit the spot more often than not so fair play.

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The net is great - It's how people use it that isnt.

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So damn true...

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

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The net is great - It's how people use it that isnt.

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So damn true...

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Internet = conveniance, conveniance = laziness!!

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I hate to qoute myself but there you go!

What was originally about going out and meeting people now seems to be about mid week chats on a forum! And barry, I know your going to say "but you never go out anymore", but don't you think there has to be a reason for that? I didn't just decide that this was my opinion for the sake of it, my opinion (and thats all it is) has been formed over 12 years of partying and observing the changes as I percieve them within dance music. I no longer get the same communal buzz I used to experience at raves. I do see an insurgence of idiots who aren't really there for the music. They seem to be there for different reasons to the reasons that originally made me want to party. Just my feelings of course ;)

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Originally Posted by Stodgy

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

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The net is great - It's how people use it that isnt.

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So damn true...

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Internet = conveniance, conveniance = laziness!!

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I hate to qoute myself but there you go!

What was originally about going out and meeting people now seems to be about mid week chats on a forum! And barry, I know your going to say "but you never go out anymore", but don't you think there has to be a reason for that? I didn't just decide that this was my opinion for the sake of it, my opinion (and thats all it is) has been formed over 12 years of partying and observing the changes as I percieve them within dance music. I no longer get the same communal buzz I used to experience at raves. I do see an insurgence of idiots who aren't really there for the music. They seem to be there for different reasons to the reasons that originally made me want to party. Just my feelings of course ;)

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Agree with this. The London scene, in my opinion has caused its own problems. Rig owners at squats ignored the problems for too long because they never affected them directly - the muggers do the punters over not the organisers. Now hardly anyone goes out.

Musically, certain labels caused rods for their own backs with a "jobs for the boys" attitude. Much talent has been ignored and overlooked and consequently moved on.

You can't reallly do a sucessful club night in terms of a big crowd in the UK now without booking the likes of Chris Lib of Dave the Drummer. With all due respect to them everyone has heard them all before plenty of times.

The scene is stale.

the scene is not stale mate its growing healtherly and bubbling away nicely underneath

dance music in general has taken a dip due to the growth of guitar/band based music over the past few years.

moaning about how it used to be isnt doing anyone any good at all, except time moves on
and things change, enjoy and make the most of what's around now!!

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Originally Posted by speed-it-up

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Originally Posted by Stodgy

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

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The net is great - It's how people use it that isnt.

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So damn true...

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Internet = conveniance, conveniance = laziness!!

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I hate to qoute myself but there you go!

What was originally about going out and meeting people now seems to be about mid week chats on a forum! And barry, I know your going to say "but you never go out anymore", but don't you think there has to be a reason for that? I didn't just decide that this was my opinion for the sake of it, my opinion (and thats all it is) has been formed over 12 years of partying and observing the changes as I percieve them within dance music. I no longer get the same communal buzz I used to experience at raves. I do see an insurgence of idiots who aren't really there for the music. They seem to be there for different reasons to the reasons that originally made me want to party. Just my feelings of course ;)

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Agree with this. The London scene, in my opinion has caused its own problems. Rig owners at squats ignored the problems for too long because they never affected them directly - the muggers do the punters over not the organisers. Now hardly anyone goes out.

Musically, certain labels caused rods for their own backs with a "jobs for the boys" attitude. Much talent has been ignored and overlooked and consequently moved on.

You can't reallly do a sucessful club night in terms of a big crowd in the UK now without booking the likes of Chris Lib of Dave the Drummer. With all due respect to them everyone has heard them all before plenty of times.

The scene is stale.

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maybe in London. people are passionate about it , round where i live, all 30 of them anyway

i think the club scene its getting loads more healthy, the numbers are on the up again and the vibes are excellent at the minute!

to true mr burns

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Originally Posted by mr burns

i think the club scene its getting loads more healthy, the numbers are on the up again and the vibes are excellent at the minute!

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I sincerely hope this is true. Despite everything I've said (and stand by) I would hate to see something I've invested so much time and effort not to mention money in die a death. One day soon I hope to get the buzz back!

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Originally Posted by nihilist

the scene is not stale mate its growing healtherly and bubbling away nicely underneath

dance music in general has taken a dip due to the growth of guitar/band based music over the past few years.

moaning about how it used to be isnt doing anyone any good at all, except time moves on
and things change, enjoy and make the most of what's around now!!

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nicely said, now whens the next party

7th of APRIL @ THE DRAGON BAR IN THE SANCTUARY, BE GOOD IF YOU COULD MAKE IT DAN

Well, Im new, but being part of Bio-Hazard has certainly made me into the sort of person who chucks in the tuppence worth:

The London scene is ****ed, fact. The big techno rigs, i.e Munt, Manik etc have either ****ed off to Europe or cant be arsed with all the shit that goes down. Fair play to Lee though I recon hes having a whale of a time.
We've been doing big parties in the UK and Europe for years, and I have noticed a decrease in punters. Once apon a time Hazard were in Mixmag, now people half a mile down the road have never even heard of a rave or freeparty. It has stagnated, but Techno is a DIY scene and will continue.

Also, Ketamin: people go to raves to snort this vile shite and dont care about what music is being played. Which leads me onto:

Perhaps Techno in the UK is maturing? As the ''muso's'' move away from illegal parties, by starting club night (Asbestos in Exeter. Sneaky plug!) a new (hopefully) breed of people may be attracted to the music we know and love. It might take a year or so, but I firmly believe that Techno music in the UK will become stronger, better and more popular than ever.

Sorry this post is shitly written, lot on my mind.

Anyway, nice forum, thanks for finally letting me join mark!

The scene isn't dead, I think its evolved alot. Ketamine, the law and file sharing non-record buying people are seriously damaging the scene.

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

The scene isn't dead, I think its evolved alot. Ketamine, the law and file sharing non-record buying people are seriously damaging the scene.

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just that be non-"music" buying people??

got be pc si ;)

ahhh i mis read... "filesharing non-record buying"

thats ok then, carry on.

The dance music scene from around 1999 - now, had been really pretty bad, the whole underground has been taken over by posh trend clubs playin funky house, also rock music has really blown up over the last few years, what you gotta remember is: not everyone likes RnB, funkly house & pop music - theres always gonna be someone who loves techno!

I think that a lot of producers were trying to emulate the classic acid techno sound in this same time band - which is such a bad move because it soon becomes stale, i agree that lables like Cluster & superconductor, along with hydraulix and some of the SUF of late have been pushing forward a lot more, and as someone erlier said - lables like Skank are doin some wicked stuff, also glitch who bang out some ace tracks.

Iv not been into acid tech all my life - but i can tell where the lows were and i can tell its bettin a lot healthier!

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

The scene isn't dead, I think its evolved alot. Ketamine, the law and file sharing non-record buying people are seriously damaging the scene.

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Exacly

the original poster of this thread, sorry if orgot your name..

take a rig to the outside world of the woods during the summer months, its the only place that seems to have a party vibe..

back to the orbital ethos my friend..

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Originally Posted by mr burns

i think the club scene its getting loads more healthy, the numbers are on the up again and the vibes are excellent at the minute!

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I think the main reason for this is because the free party scene,especially in london,has been f*cked over by crack head wankers. people want to party,but they want a safe enviroment to do so. You don't need to be looking out for cunts in dark corners who want to rinse your pockets and take what ever you have. they have killed the partry scene. And for that,I hate them.

It's been about respect for the fellow party person,ever since free parties began,this respect has flown out the window,because of crack head scum. I know free parties are all about freedom,and lawlessnes,but there has to be a line drawn. And that line has to be drawn under theiving wankers who think that free parties are a quick raise,and not a vibrant scene that it was once, and haven for all people who love music,and who want to express thier love for music by having a f*cking great night. After all,it's our f*cking right to party!!

It's a shame,and goes against the grain,but free parties need better security,it needs people to stand up to the gangs who work them. otherwise it's dead on it's feet. And people will turn to clubs with restrictions,and moody bouncers and licencing to worry about.
this is not what should be happening. but it's what IS happening. I'd rather be in a club where I know I'm not going to get skanked,I'd rather pay a tenner for a bit of saftey,ok my rights have been restricted,but you have to look out for yoursefl,and that's not allways easy when you're munted.

The internet has NOT killed the party scene,wankers have. If anything,the web has brought music to new people,to people who wouldn't have even know that this sort of thing still goes on. Viva la f*cking web.

sorry,i've kind of gone of on one :lol: But it still stands. Free parties are not dead,but it is on life support. And with people like the Tribe of Munt crew trying to bring it back,there will always be a "scene"

i totally agree with everything you have said there, i also think your opinion of free party's is more towards london squat party's though, down this way people like storm and surge, (up until recently)) have been putting on free party's every week attractin anything up to thousends of people week in week out, and im never looking over my shoulder at these, and it is very rare you encounter any sort of trouble. just friendly ravers all with the same thing in mind. these sort of partys are going on all over the country every week.

agree with that completly.
its more the london scene that went bad and there are still good 'free parties' which i always thought of being the outside events...dodgy gangs and crack heads arent as willing to go out of london to some field so its stayed alive through them.
some sort of collective 'policing' within the squats would improve them....a sort of you watch my back i watch yours attitude...nothing militant, just the sort of attitude we all have...just should practice it more....if the scene matters that much to you do something about it.

if you listen to people that used to run the old london rigs (like dirty bass), there's always been problems with drug gangs, addicts etc, but back then it sounds like rigs did stick together and watch each others backs

i remember back in 97/98 when i was playin on Al wickers twisted rig. we used to go out everyweek with the immersion rig(when it wasnt impounded) and there was never any real trouble untill a certain "nameless" group started hangin out at our parties. it just went downhill from there. until one night i seen a lad get smacked with a big plank of wood over a bit of hash money. it happened right in front of the rig on a sunday afternoon. i certainly wasnt gonna step up to these lads.. but that killed it for me.

there was one small rig which shall remain nameless that just brought trouble with them everywhere they went. the rig owner was a gangster but seemed to get on well enough with me so i never had trouble off them... sometimes its better to be on the good side of these people.

cant yo see its all about money?

and... why does it always have to be about fcking london?

also... the muggers at alot of the parties in london would give 30% to the rig owners (not all but they know who they are)

now... i probably signed my own death warrent in my last statement but i stand by it

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Originally Posted by judas_beast

Well, Im new, but being part of Bio-Hazard has certainly made me into the sort of person who chucks in the tuppence worth:

The London scene is ****, fact. The big techno rigs, i.e Munt, Manik etc have either **** off to Europe or cant be arsed with all the shit that goes down. Fair play to Lee though I recon hes having a whale of a time.
We've been doing big parties in the UK and Europe for years, and I have noticed a decrease in punters. Once apon a time Hazard were in Mixmag, now people half a mile down the road have never even heard of a rave or freeparty. It has stagnated, but Techno is a DIY scene and will continue.

Also, Ketamin: people go to raves to snort this vile shite and dont care about what music is being played. Which leads me onto:

Perhaps Techno in the UK is maturing? As the ''muso's'' move away from illegal parties, by starting club night (Asbestos in Exeter. Sneaky plug!) a new (hopefully) breed of people may be attracted to the music we know and love. It might take a year or so, but I firmly believe that Techno music in the UK will become stronger, better and more popular than ever.

Sorry this post is shitly written, lot on my mind.

Anyway, nice forum, thanks for finally letting me join mark!

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hiya judas, when you down in the mother county again?

as for manik, i heard that there not welcome back in this counrty for all the shit they caused at there parties

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Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

The scene isn't dead, I think its evolved alot. Ketamine, the law and file sharing non-record buying people are seriously damaging the scene.

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devon and cornwall OB have serious funding this year and intend to stamp free parties out once and for all.

speaking to other hazard members last night i get the feeling we aint doing parties anymore and are moving into clubs, i know for fact that hazard as a collective have two venue's in devon and will be possibly doing once monthly, so a club night every other week, we wont be conflicting with the grove's night so there's three nights a month to goto for techno and hard edged music.

thats pretty healthy for devon.
so... all you people sick to the ears of crappy squat parties ( like me ) come on down to devon! do an e! eat a cream tea! hang out with me... roly LOL!

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Originally Posted by Rowland The Bastard

cant yo see its all about money?

and... why does it always have to be about fcking london?

also... the muggers at alot of the parties in london would give 30% to the rig owners (not all but they know who they are)

now... i probably signed my own death warrent in my last statement but i stand by it

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Soon, theres a sheep I need to rape.

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Originally Posted by Rowland The Bastard

come on down to devon! do an e! eat a cream tea! hang out with me... roly LOL!

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you missed 'fellate a sheep(e)'

anyone remember castle morton? diy? "point them out, we'll sort them out" free parties were the coming together of subverive underground people that didnt wish to conform to what society told them, we used to patrol our own parties people dancing were as much members of the rigs as the owners, if it wasnt for the people the rigs wouldnt be there, dont let rigs dictate you! we need to stick together, help each other!

too right....i know what rowland is saying ...ive never been on the other side of the rig in proper squat parties alot but i understand that dealing with that shit all the time will just make you fall out of love with em....clubs are great and its good there growing abit more now but i just reckon that free parties and squats kinda hold the essence of the scene...it gives it that edge which is what the music has and it'd b a big shame to see them die out completly just because of a bunch of crackheads and bent rigs....
its not just the rigs and the artists ...were all part of the scene so its up to all of us really....

i really think setting has a lot to do with mood aswell.. i remember parties when the sun would be shining through the roof on a sunday morning in summer. that was the time to be dancing!! people were just smiling :)

Ive found from doing the door at partys at London that a lot of the trouble comes from people that are ingrained in the sceene and have got friends contacts that are mates from other rigs and just got away with it for years!


We "Munt" were starting to get death threats from people cos we wouldnt let them in and it was going to get nasty soon so we have had to lay off the squats for a while i dont wana see my mates dead or harmed!


everybody knows who the trouble makers are at the london squat partys but some of these guys are right nasty bastards it used to be just the odd eliment of trouble by individuals and this could be stamped out!

but the crack muggings became part of the sceene even acepted cos it gave an edge by some people and they didnt get shit cos they were crew and the muggers knew them!

this is what was killing the scene yeah Munt have had some successfull partys over the past few years perivale springs to mind about 700 people and the only thing we heard back off all the punters was a coat went missing!


where can we take the scene from here?


yeah back outside for the summer when we can dodge the coppers good location is the deal i think goto make sure you dont piss of the locals

also security at squat partys we were getting there by not letting the wankers in but we were getting so much shit on the door!


also made it almost impossible for us to go to any other partys cos we would get done over!


anyway my rant over and my point was anyway that it got rotten from the inside

Must be said that the only illegal(ish) parties I get myself to are the Munt parties. Got sick of getting knives pointed at me and being robbed whenever i went for a piss in a corner of a warehouse or something.

Otherwise i stick to club nights like NFZ, Chemical Warfare, Section 63 etc etc. I still have a wicked time, with wicked music and great crowds - which is what its about at the end of the day.

Hats off to the Munt crew. The recent parties in Hackney Wick have been fantastic. Keep up the good work. Stonking.

Disturbance303

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Originally Posted by Rowland The Bastard

devon and cornwall OB have serious funding this year and intend to stamp free parties out once and for all.

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Originally Posted by tOM B

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Originally Posted by Rowland The Bastard

devon and cornwall OB have serious funding this year and intend to stamp free parties out once and for all.

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sorry mucked the last post up

i've heard this as well and i don't think it's just devon and cornwall either - i've heard that some forces are putting teams together especially to target parties and weren't there some rigs destroyed last year?

I guess a lot of crews will start heading to legitamate venues if this is the case but i don't think it will be the end of the scene. there's nowt wrong with partying in clubs and there will always be other places we can party - there's plenty of wide open spaces it just means travelling a bit further. my experience tends to be that the harder a party is to get to the less idiots and therefore the less trouble turns up.

Most of my partying has been done in the countryside and to be honest i haven't seen much trouble over the last eleven years, occasionally you get idiots but they're normally dealt with by the other party goers. I've always felt that parties in places like london and bristol have a darker side to them and to be honest i don't enjoy them as much as being out in the sticks... but they're not the only places parties happen and they can't stop all of us all the time can they?
;)

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Originally Posted by speed-it-up

Musically, certain labels caused rods for their own backs with a "jobs for the boys" attitude. Much talent has been ignored and overlooked and consequently moved on.

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Think this is unfortunately true.

Shame about the squat parties in London. Don't know how the psy trance parties in london managed to avoid the problems, tho its a completely different scene so comparisons probably not useful.

I don't think the scene is stale, there is still some stuff coming through. Last time I was in London at an acid party I saw this guy called TT play, and he was quality! Better set than DDR that night I thought!

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Originally Posted by tOM B

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Originally Posted by tOM B

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Originally Posted by Rowland The Bastard

devon and cornwall OB have serious funding this year and intend to stamp free parties out once and for all.

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sorry mucked the last post up

i've heard this as well and i don't think it's just devon and cornwall either - i've heard that some forces are putting teams together especially to target parties and weren't there some rigs destroyed last year?

I guess a lot of crews will start heading to legitamate venues if this is the case but i don't think it will be the end of the scene. there's nowt wrong with partying in clubs and there will always be other places we can party - there's plenty of wide open spaces it just means travelling a bit further. my experience tends to be that the harder a party is to get to the less idiots and therefore the less trouble turns up.

Most of my partying has been done in the countryside and to be honest i haven't seen much trouble over the last eleven years, occasionally you get idiots but they're normally dealt with by the other party goers. I've always felt that parties in places like london and bristol have a darker side to them and to be honest i don't enjoy them as much as being out in the sticks... but they're not the only places parties happen and they can't stop all of us all the time can they?
;)

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Operation Hartley has been in operation (really should've got my thesaurus out) for a few years now in the s/w. We were a victim of it in 2003 (i think). We were arressted, held with out charge for about ten hours with no access to legal representaion, had our then rig (which was admittedly a slag) impounded for a month, and generally ****ed over. Its not really worth it, considering we'd barely make enough on the door to cover costs and get some chav cunts kicking off.

Club nights innit, people will go for the music. Look at the End, Sven Vath drew a massive crowd. plus you can set your rig up at your leisure.

the best reason I've seen in years for voting conservative. the smack dens will be cooler.

Acid Techno is stuck somewhere around 1998. If you want to see a passionate scene then stop banging out the same forumulaic straight hard house/trance styled commercial tracks. Stop playing spin-dryer techno and get some originality. Break some rules, make every track sound different - supprise the crowd, build something new. I've been to a wide range of parties in London from minimal tech house through to dubstep/breakstep - they all have happier punters that aren't whacked out on K slouching to the same old tracks.

Has anybody wondered why no other major techno DJ play stay up forever styled music any more? A few copycat Chris Liberator wannabees but not the serious talent?

Last year I went to a Cannibal Cooking Club party in a warehouse in Germany - if blow up bigger and harder than any old acid party I've seen in a good 5 years. Monox in Glasgow bangs out some really good talent that people can't get enough of.

People that go to acid techno parties get what they want - same old stale formula of intro, break, kick off, outro-intro, break... yawn. drop in a frew 303 lines, try a hip hop sample here and there. yawn. oooh, a yello biafra sample, yawn.

People fight at squat parties cos they are bored and there is piss poor security. A few up in archway and the Hackney with membership policies are better behaved but the likes of ToM and Malfaiteurs just isn't fresh any more. I think you need a big bag of K to last the night.