Get it right.
Schranz is not Hard Techno.
Hard Techno and Schranz.
Are Not The Same.
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Get it right.
Schranz is not Hard Techno.
Hard Techno and Schranz.
Are Not The Same.
lol right
I'm glad you pointed that out.
:lol:
word
now i see where ive been going wrong!
thanks Tony :)
surely Its techno and its hard
I never get why people always get into a debate about this, personally I don't care if people class Schranz as Hard Techno, just my opinion. :)
They are very similar anyway or even the same in my view. :techno:
let me quote Mario Ranieri... "f*ck schranz! call it hardtechno"
:lol:
Got that on CD. :cheese:Quote:
Originally Posted by koma
You're quoting a Schranz producer.
How about asking Hard Techno artists how they feel about that.
When Adam Beyer did this
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF15953-01-01-01.mp3
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF66215-01-02-01.mp3
Which I would consider hard techno.
Do you think that should be associated with
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF219568-01-01-01.mp3
or
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF217302-01-01-01.mp3
I'm not the devil.Quote:
Originally Posted by koma
I'm just a fallen angel.
Sam, look... who cares about the name?
either you like it or not..
for me, there is just more than one view on how should hard techno sound like
I mean, it deff wouldnt be good if hard techno still sounded like older Beyer releases, wouldn it?
with so many different producers and labels, sound changes
and of course there's lots of crap, we've been on that subject too much times already, wont go there.
I see on some other boards people praising poor releases, produced and/or mastered obviously by deaf people
but its the same in every genre
and I can't say all schranz is bad, cause from time to time I find some releases (from artists most people consider "schranz") that are good and work on the dancefloor..
will we create dozens of new subgenre names every year or two? or is it easier to say "i like this kind of hard techno, but I dont like that one"
maybe you like the porsche, but hate Volvo at the same time.. but you're still driving a thing called a CAR...
evenn if you drive a Yugo, you can still say you drive a CAR.. although Yugo is a KARA..
If this was something you were passionate about it wouldnt be so funny would it.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface
Wuss boy :devilish:
why waste passion on schranz? why waste anything on schranz for that matter? Hard techno yes, Schranz, nahQuote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
well its deffinatly techno and its hard as nails. i'd say that classed it as hard techno.
sorry to point out the obvious here.
or does it drag down what you love somehow? i cant see why it should even figure in your world unless you want it to
I would say that there is schranz and then there is also hard techno personally. I think that generall Schranz is a bit more monotone, and generally a lot faster than hard techno. Sometimes the tracks can reach into the 160BPM range. Which is quite fast for if it was a hard techno track. Then there is the obvious over use of distortion...because I have said it once before...Distortion does not equal hard, but only the mood created by the tune itself. Don't get me wrong in that respect either...Distortion is a very good weapon if used properly and not overused. But if it's too heavy just makes things hard to listen to.
So to put an end to my rambling, yes there is a differane. Atleast in my humble opinion.
Schranz is what it is.. It's a style of it's own....
But what I suspect Sam is fretting about is what I think about alot, which is that the older method of producing hard techno is getting lost because ppl think Schranz IS hard techno. I personally think the line is massive but if you don't understand techno, the line is NOTHING. and that's the problem here for artists like myself and Sam who are trying to do something different to Schranz based upon what it came from.
I dunno, you can say 'stop living in the past' and move on, but i personally think that hard techno is unfinished business. I don't class myself as a Schranz producer, although fair play to producers that make it and ppl that like it. god, i'll even play it if the party needs it...
but in the studio, for me.. hard techno is a very different ethos.. there's space between the beats and there's a need to break out of the 1 bar loop and put the funk in there. and 0 cheese or obvious samples. i don't know whether we achieve this, but i try my damndest to do it!
schranz for me, is the commmercial edge of hard techno. there's a place for it - i reespect that for sure.. hard techno is something else imho :)
samples like "me so horny" or Marthin Luther King speech?Quote:
and 0 cheese or obvious samples
i have to agree with mark. it's as if the producers of schranz realized they have soiled their genre's name with crap production and covering up bad mixdowns with distrotion (99%of what's in that genre), and are looking for a cheap easy way to get out of that rut, ie. genre name change. I see a lot of schranz producers trying to argue this point and really confusing the hell out of people that are A) new to all this, and B) not from Germany/near there C) stop trying to call what was hard techno before in your eyes as hardgroove. I say keep calling it schranz but try make it better, and maybe it's image will turn around.
Exactly
Hardgroove is a label.
Not a genre.
if its made by a machine then its techno....just some forms
are more shite than others ie Schranz, but its still techno imo
For me, Schranz is a form of hard techno, just like progressive is a form of house, but they are 2 very different things. If people ask me, what's the difference between hard techno and schranz, I just tell them "Hard techno is hard techno and schranz is really hard techno". Simple as that. It's all hard, it's all techno and just like with any kind of music, there's good artists and there are bad artists. Good schranz = Scott Kemix, DJ Ocram, Robert Natus, Kay D. Smith, etc. Good hard techno = Alex Calver, Mark EG, Henry Cullen, Martyn Hare, Audioklinik, etc. And I definitely don't think of Schranz as commercial! Except for Canada, the harder styles of electronic aren't as accepted in North America as they are in Europe, unforunately. If I spun a schranz set where I live, it would clear the place out and I would never DJ locally again! haha!
Kay D. Smith is by no means schranz, he's extremely good hard techno.
True. Though some Kay D. Smith tracks are very abrasive and have played well alongside schranz tracks.
this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSP
what is the purpose of this sticky anyway? to make so-called "schranz" producers not welcomed on BOA?
and give a break with that "funk" shit. most of you dont even think about the funk, about some higher meaning, about making something groundbreaking, different... you just want the track to work on a dancefloor, lets be honest.
schranz is just hard techno taken to the extreme. same as speedcore took hardcore to the extreme, and then 150 newstyle suckers started moaning "oh, I can't dance to that bla bla bla". who cares, I can and I'm fine with it :cheese: of course there's lots of shit in speedcore as well in schranz, but I dont spend my time moaning about it, I'll rather talk about the good stuff. or search something beyond those genres. there's tons of music out there, damn it...
oh and yes, the sales. schranz is selling better than "normal" hard techno. but thats no reason for slagging. I also get angry sometimes about some bullshit stuff selling 3 times more than nice, clean stuff.. but you can' t really blame that producers, but the audience, right? oh yeah, kids are the future of the music, ai? dont think so...
ps. oh, now when someone said something, lets say, against Glenn, topic gets locked. when before somebody said he's milking the same sound record after record, there was a beef about it. I remember a topic how "Andreas Kremer is the daddy of hard techno", although the man has put out dozens of ultra badly produced/mastered vinyls.
not forgetting Ben sims whose half of records sounds the same...
of course they all have put out great records too, but sometimes it seems to me some people are untouchable, while others can get slagged. if you want to slag someone, slag everyone...be fair.
:clap: :clap: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by koma
[quote="eyeswithoutaface"]good points koma :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by koma
koma is that bright, shining star on the horizon...
oh hell, I was hoping for a good beef.. what, no one? :eh:
nevermind, I'll go to some hiphop board then :cheese:
now everyone will think I'm defending schranz, but its just that I dont fancy spitting on the whole genre.
Kvitta has this new label called Bullshit and most tracks - for me - are so far really bad. But that same dude released some killer tracks aswell (like "Wild West") and he's releasing more every so often + he's crazy behind decks, you want someone to rock the place with really really hard stuff, he's your man.
heard some new record by Minupren too, but didnt like it at all, I was like "whos going to buy this?!". on the other hand, I find his "Naak symphony" really good, specially if you want to tear the place apart. so you see, you can't tell me there's no good stuff there.
and my friends know my attitude best when they're about to release or play something I dont like. yes, its different, they also know the way I'm thinking and that theres no plain negativity in my words. with internet boards its not that easy, you really have to be careful when typing sometimes... and I would really like for BOA to be opened for everyone and grow even bigger. I want to see more people here, more topics about good new releases, more debates, more reports from good parties.. more of every bloody thing due to which we love this damn music so much
amen
Those are lots of great points Koma, :clap: but i think the issue at hand is that it seems that producers of "Schranz" are trying desperatly to re-name themselves as "Hand Techno" and producers who were making "Hard Techno" as "Hard Groove" It is as if Schranz is a dirty soiled word that they want to escape from, and thus they feel the need to shift everyone else around in order to fit their square peg in the round hole. i don't think it was an issue of it not being techno, of course it is. just that its kind of bold and selfish to run away from something that was created and reclassify others in the process just so they can have a better image.*
* now i'm not saying ever producer under the schranz umbrella is trying to do this, but there are a lot. and it is confusing a lot of the kids out there. and hense the reason for this thread i think. Ceci n'est pas vrai, Tony?
Hardgroove? for fuk sake!
Are these guys cabbages or what?
dunno.. I know djs who play lots of Sims-like music are calling their style "hardgroove".
like those who play surgeon and regis usually say "i play birmingham" hehe.
some producers dont like the word schranz since its a sound connected with liebings earlier releases, which is a lot different from the sound that developed in Germany and around since then...
but yes, some are probably affraid of a negative effect after being classified as schranz, due to bunch of bad bootlegs and over-distorted stuff most usually connect with the word today
thats called shooting themselves in the foot, if the schranz guys didnt get like all their mates, and their brothers, and their mates brothers into releasing and ultimately saturating their own scene so much then they wouldnt have a reason to be so worriedQuote:
Originally Posted by DSP
its all techno, people really shouldnt be so worried about what other people are calling music
like what you like, play what you play, make what you make and anyone insecure enough to worry about what people are calling the music should probably go and have a rethink anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by koma
i like your attitude, mate!
i aggree we should make BOA open for everyone and then sort out the jerks. if it got out of hand we could always put the registration limitation up again, imo. but that is Mark's forum and therefore i am none to decide it.. it would surely help the production forum :)
Ok.
Here's my synopsis.
As far as the whole closing the Glenn Wilson thread, any personal professional business he or anyone else here has could and should be handled behind closed doors. Not because I am a label mate or friend of his, because I am being a moderator. I could have gone off the deep end and given my opinion on the situation, but I chose to act as a moderator.
As far as the making this thread a sticky.
I felt it necessary to show the ideas and consensus among fellow producers.
Not just Hard Techno producers but producers in general.
Including some from detroit and others with huge names not to be disclosed.
If 5% of a group tries to define the rest of the whole there is still a 95TH percentile of the group that would like to have a say as to what is defined as what.
If schranz sounded like the Liebing/Walter work of the 90's then I am sure there would be no objection from the whole as to that being defined as Hard Proper Techno.
But as black and white as it may seem there is a line between schranz and techno.
I never said there was not good schranz out there.
What I have heard from the Protocast label is quite quite impressive, some of Arkus P's work is really good. Same for the new Amok mix and the material I have heard from Matame. So to say I have a bias is unfair.
What I do find is that I agree with Dsp whole heartedly.
Five percent of a whole do not have the right to define the whole.
it was handled behind closed doors, but sometimes it takes a little nudge in public to get someone to listen up, and lo and behold it worked and my problem is on its way to being sorted, very amicably indeed too surprisingly. It wouldnt of been had i not posted what i did, thats a fact.
as for the rest, bah, no one has the "right" to define anything, and people really shouldnt worry, just do what you do and keep putting records out, cant really do much more than that, as much as this sticky does make sense, there is hardly a wave of shcranz producers on here who are all gonna stand up and take notice, its basically preaching to an empty pew
And how would you know that?
Blackout is a sea of screen names.
You would be quite surprized to know who dwells around here.
So you stating I am preaching to an open pew is purely your own personal opinion.
i'd say (and i know for a fact :) ) the main forum for the schranz stuff (i think they call it hardtechno not hard techno themselves) centers around the german united schranz board:
http://usb.unitedsb.de/
Sam, I see where you're going, who said anything about defining anything?
if someone comes to me and says "the stuff you're playing isnt real hard techno, it isnt fast and hard enough", I'm like LOL "dude, talk to the hand, the head's not listening".. same goes to those who can't stand harder stuff, so they start preaching me about it.. if you respect me, I'll respect you, thats the way it goes. If someone's talking bullshit, just ignore him. there's others things to worry about in life
I mean, I'd give my left arm to hear pounding grooves or glenn live again, although lots of kids around would probably say "ah, they arent hard enough, thats no hard techno". f*ck them, I refuse to lose my time over people unwilling to listen properly and learn. I'm just tired of talking...
nah, the scene over here is so ****ed up I'm tired of everything these days... years of effort for what, for nothing, bah...
schranz just grew as a perversion of hard techno, its in nature of every genre to develope its extreme versions after some time... I think :cheese:
now lets relax with a proper tune
http://www.schubfaktor.at/sf_downloa...s/orep02b2.mp3
:lol:
Schranz is Hard Techno, but who really cares? It's all about loving the music, and as long as most of it sounds good, everyone's happy!! :)
It's all noise........
Techno is techno is techno.
I`m sick of people who play schranze only playijng schranze.
I`m sick of people who only play birmingham, only playing birmingham.
I wish people would open their eyes and ears and diversify.
It`s healthy and more creative.
All this, I am a schranze producer/DJ, I am a hardgroove DJ blah blah blah.
Crap.
Just call it techno and mix it all up.
Yeah i agree totally man . abit of acid , hard techno,schranz whatever. mix it all together and see what u come out with.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
with crap most probably :P
yeah cos playing an hour of almost identical sounding records is great right?
no, it is also crap.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Miromiric