I AM TRYING TO JUMP ON A BANDWAGON PLEASE HELP !!!!

ok forgive the title it was just to get the debate started.
but i AM trying to jump a bandwagon , or at least many of you will see it that way.
truth be told i have made over the years many different types of music / styles of techno et etc ...
and since the elctrohouse / minimal thing came back from the grave i have tried my hand at making a few trax in thats style
so.....
ok here's the problem........
( you know whats coming next )

i have been known for making " acid techno " over many years
and bloody proud of the music i have made and the genre i am too.
the people in that scene are some of the soundest most honest people i have ever had the pleasure to work with and i would never say anything to undermine my love for them.

BUT

AND ITS A BIG BUT......

i really do think from the bottom of my heart that my musical career has more to it than just banging dancefloor techno , and i am trying harder than ever to express myself through my music , meaning i am making what i want , when i want , and bugger the consequences.

and at this point i guess i have to take a lesson from the "big" techno guys.
i mean people like hawtin , mills , clarke , beltram etc etc have ALWAYS done what they want and everyone goes with it ( maybe not everyone , but you know what it mean )
is that because they are riding a crest of their own wave of fame?
or are they true geniuses/pioneers moving the sound forward?

i think the answer is both.
but that does not mean that no one else is capable of what they are doing musically they just lack the funds and the machine to help them along.

wheras a guy like myself who has pigeonholed himself so hard over the years ( i can only blame myself ) cannot step away from the "underground" plate for fear of not being able to return.

( maybe i will be stoned to death by the elders , i don't know )


so....

it's a question of money
( ie: if i start playing minimal noone will book me and i'll lose my income)

and it's a question of time
( ie : while i am so busy trying to write my dancefloor music and keep my labels alive i am watching time fly by wishing i could perhaps do that artist album i've alway wanted to do , house , breaks , songs etc etc etc etc etc .....)


ok chaps i have gabbled for long enough
my question to you is.
can the leopard really change his spots , or is it just an industry game ?
and if you were in my position
what would you do?

discuss

Use the name Henry Cullen for your new projects.
The educated shopper will be able to identify you.
But will still purchase the new material curious as to what your output is now.

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?

do some fine electronica, electro, detroit or idm etc. not this retarded clicks & cuts mnml sound everyone is trying to immitate nowadays.

think in that situation its finding a healthly balance of what you need to do and what you want to do. dont let what you want to do be put on a back burner.

for every dancefloor techno track you make, make summat that you want to make.

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Originally Posted by fac

do some fine electronica, electro, detroit or idm etc. not this retarded clicks & cuts mnml sound everyone is trying to immitate nowadays.

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ok point taken
but i never said i was trying to imitate anything
elctronica ie: autechre , sun electric etc etc is what i grew up with and i love it still.
but thats not really my point here.
it's not a " how can i be cool and get recognised ? " type thread
more of a
" if i am doing something that is breaking the rulez , how can i get poeple to see it for what it is ? " type thread

if you get my meaning.

It's a tricky one, it shouldn't be such a big deal really, you should be able to make what you want and thats it, but we all know it's not like that, especially when it's your living.

This then also goes hand in hand with the time factor, if you're spending all week making your usual techno, running labels, playing out at weekends, all to make a little bit of money so you can do this professionally, then it's a big gamble to give all this up to spend sometime making what your heart desires.

If possible, maybe try cutting back on a few things so at least you have a little more time to do other things.

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Originally Posted by alsynthe

think in that situation its finding a healthly balance of what you need to do and what you want to do. dont let what you want to do be put on a back burner.

for every dancefloor techno track you make, make summat that you want to make.

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well thats exactly what i have been doing
maybe what i am making is just crap , don't know

i can give you an example of what i am doing now but it involves me redirecting you to my space which will provoke an outburst of nuclear proportions.

so.... i'll put up a clip of a new track ( this is a hypothetical argument please don't think this is a promotional attempt ) on my site and i'll drop a link in here in the next couple of minutes

you are free to tell me if it is crap or not etc etc
but the point is...

if you are known for one style and feel you need to change to represent your new musical ideas honestly??

how do you go about it?

it's not about me , it's about all of us .

i think the way adam beyer did it, showed that its possible to do this "turn". he was always famous for his drumcode-alike loopy techno. then he started the new label mad eye and began continously to "slow his sound down". and he is still succesful with his "new sound". maybe this is a possibility to do it.

or... if you have some really decent tracks which some labels (which are famous for this new sound u want to do) would release, create a new mystical alias. no infos, no names, no face, no nothing...

it's crazy really, you stick with one style too much you get slated, if you change style you get slated.

I always put the questionable/experimental tracks on the B sides of my records. For instance, when I did my 1984 ep on my Enemy label a couple years ago...I think the only good feedback I got was on the B2 track...one of my best ambient tracks. :)

I think at the end of the day you should focus on doing what you feel is right. If it means stepping away from acid techno to make different music, then so be it. If it means getting a real job to replace lost income, then maybe thats the way things have to be. It's hard for us to know your situation and what is more important so it's for you to decide. I could easily go 100% minimal and take care of all of my money and gig problems right now but it would probably kill me inside during the process. In my case, I make and play the music that makes me happy and describes where I'm at right now. I'm pretty broke at the moment but I haven't been this happy about techno in years. My girlfriend and family's opinion of it all seems to differ but I'm the artist here! :)

Also, I don't think aliases really complicate things too much. It can be kind of welcoming imo as I know what to expect. If Skoog puts out something as Patrik Skoog...I can expect a hard as nails darker techno record. If he turns out an Agaric track, I can expect some grooves that you'd smoke a spliff to. Plus with aliases, you get the opportunity to kind of "start over." Every producer can imagine the excitement of putting out their first couple records, but it quickly wears off and you either A) slow down and carefully plan (and sometimes over analyze) your next release or B) rush out a shitload more and saturate the market. With a new alias and sound, it's exciting to see what you're capable of with a new audience. Dinner time.

yeah the adam beyer thing is kind of what i was talking about
very interesting
ok here's a link , have a listen , and get back.
i still love this track , it's from the heart
i would like to pursue this direction , but i don't think i have enough house points / gold techno stars to do it

http://www.davethedrummer.net/audio/...mate%20mix.mp3

the point is not the track

it is an example
the point is ...
if you build somthing up and want to change direction , how do you do it??

think about the way the industry works
the way you build a rep.
etc etc

anyway enough b.s. from me ( way too much wine today )

dustin
i have to say
you always appear from nowhere , and it is always worth a read.
thanks

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Originally Posted by dan the acid man

it's crazy really, you stick with one style too much you get slated, if you change style you get slated.

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"she's a witch burn her "
"how do you know she's a witch??"
"she turned me into a newt "






" i got better "






" BURN HER BURN HER !!!!!"

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?

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no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

i've listened to all those tracks before on myspace, they're all great, strangedayz is probably my favourite.

i reckon dustins got it spot on really

i reckon if your music is good it will shine through no matter what the style..

i dont think changing your name for differant releases is a good idea. i know everything i write ciomes under one name.. be it cheesey club stuff or angry distorted stuff. if "the underground" dont like it then they dont like it.. but another release like "jack me" and they'll be back onside again.. people are fickle but they also recognise good music (i think!!)

so basically yeah.. take a chance, see what happens but in the mean time keep puttin bread on the table with what you're known for.

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

ok
tried that a few times, it works to some extent , but getting new people to recognise my work is still a problem , and aliases tend to confuse things in the end.
as i said i'm proud of my history.
why cant it all co-exsist?

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no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

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probably right there mr egg

yeah i wouldnt go too far out on a limb if i may be so bold

as rhythmtech said go for it but play it safe with what you known for

you do still enjoy it so keep tha side of it going

right got to go for a bit
but please chaps , this is hypothetical
yes i am speaking about my personal stuff, because i started it , but i didn't start it so i could read lot's of replies saying " you should do this ..... "

no really i wanted to see what you all thought about artists shifting their sound and HOW they have achieved that or not achieved it to you minds.

Thanks. ;) Another thing worth mentioning is one of the more positive points about the minimal explosion: new artist acceptance. If you look at sales charts on various sites, you'll see that a lot of the names are fairly new acts. While I think the majority of these new producers are just stoners-gone-ableton in a bad way, it's great to see that people are open to names besides the legends and obvious choices.

People are really quick to shun the minimal scene but its amazing to see how segregated it really is. There is the m_nus followers who will follow Richie, Luciano and co. into the depths of hell if asked to. Then there is the James Holden/Damian Lazerus kind of progressive styled "minimal," which all music aside has great production value. There's the foundsound/microcosm group of people that are more focused on the clicky, drippy, drugged out minimal sound (this is the stuff that most people on boa would probably hate on). On the flip, you have the harder minimal crowd such as Beyer, Agaric, 2 Dollar Egg, Tony Rohr, etc. There's also the DC10 circo loco kind of minimal/house/techno which is more like the party music of it all (Locodice, Tania Vulcano, etc.). And of course the electro-house with Trentemoeller, Gui Borrato, and more. Filling in the cracks there is tons of experimental type techno as well including Apendics.Shuffle, Kero, Paul Kalkbrenner, Excercise One, Thomas Schumacher, and more.

At the end of the day, there is so much room to breathe and do your own thing all under that "minimal" umbrella. And lastly, its like Dan The Acid Man, said...you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

i honestly think there are very few purists out there who would avoid your music no matter how good it is, just because you were/are associated with the acid scene

i like to think i have a good knowledge of techno. i know what i like, but background, scenes etc. who cares? good music is good music, and if whatever you do is good enough, it will sell

I loved the ambient track you did as Waterland with c.liberator back in 96. used to play the shit out of it when i used to play more chilled out beats.

do what you love and how you want to express yourself. but my advice is, use a differant persona if you're going to start doing minimal/non-hard music only sets that way you wont get a lot of pissed off fans.

I think Mr EG's hit the nail on the head Henry.

You've built up a reputation with the DAVE the Drummer / Henry Cullen name, so I'd stick with it, and just push your self a bit harder towards the area of the market / scene your aiming for.

If the tunes are well produced then it shouldnt be an issue, true music lovers will not think "oh, Im not buying that DTD tune because he is a Techno man and he has released an electro house tune", true music lovers will see the new work as a widening of your experiences ;)

classic thread.

break out of that mould DTD

or keep the mould if you like it and create a new one to go with it.

Or use that mould to make jelly.

and get two sxy ladies to wrestle in it for you

that would break the mould :lol:

Is Henry gettin into Jelly wrestling...??

...what??

being honest with your creativity always wins in the end. your character will shine through no matter what genre of music you produce if u r honest with yourself. fans appreciate honesty. i'd stick with DTD. I think fans wanna hear what else DTD can do.

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Originally Posted by sash

being honest with your creativity always wins in the end. your character will shine through no matter what genre of music you produce if u r honest with yourself. fans appreciate honesty. i'd stick with DTD. I think fans wanna hear what else DTD can do.

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yep, that is spot on.

I 100% agree ^

But not about the jelly.

Henry, don’t worry about the typecasting, it’s made to be broken. But.. I think there are two important things people need to realize here:

1. “There is a time and a place for everything”.
2. Do a really f**kin’ good job at whatever your doing

It’s not about changing your style or changing your name; ITS ABOUT EXPANDING YOUR PALLET!. -----It’s about having that wicked break track to drop into a set to break the 4/4 monotony, -----Its about having that deep slow track (minimal or whatever) to drop-in when your playing the California desert as the sun is coming up, -----It’s about having more than Midnight-4am meth pumping techno in your bag.

All these dj’s playing hard techno.. now leaving it (seemingly) forever and now only playing minimal (or whatever) are inflicting an all new typecasting all over again. Dj’s need to understand the temperature and play the right music at the appropriate time. I don’t want to hear minimal at an outdoor party with 5000 people. I don’t want to hear hard techno in the bar up the road at 9pm.

Broaden the D.A.V,E the Drummer name.. don’t leave it.. It can only lead to further success.

Much respect,
Greg

You've obviously got an album of non-techno stuff inside of you that's screaming to get out. When i buy an album by a Techno producer i don't expect bangin tunes on every track-might as well stick to buying 12's if there were.
I say make your new music and stuff em. The clip you put up sounds good to me,(you can play it on our rig anytime-but there's no £ in it)and if you loose bookings because of it i'm sure other clubs will book you because of it (if u c wot i mean).
Variety is the spice of life m8 (so i'm led to believe) ;)

totally toally understand where you are coming from here.
I`d say that the basic fact is that you will and probably do encounter prejudice or stereotyping from your acid techno history.
But it is a history to be proud of, and rightly so.
It`s all very well to say "oh a true techno fan would never stereotype and blah blah" but basically, you know the score, you get put into a box by people.
I`ve been in the same position and am having to do the same thing, use a totally anon name.

Aliases are the way, it`s your music at the end of the day, if it`s good, it will catch on, and if you have the dollar or the butt sucking talent, then get some good capitalist schweinhund marketing on the go too.

Good luck, and basically go for it man, you can still keep up the london stuff too, split your time, 2weeks other stuff, 2 weeks acid, or whatever.

If you start an alias (and I think the henry cullen one everyone knows is DtD), then try to keep it as anon as poss for as long as poss I reckon, although obviously be contactable etc

ya.. I'm not a huge fan of the multi-alias thing.. however keeping it unknown seems to work. The mystery has an aurora + the new name gets judged on its own merit.. and then later once established, you can reveal it and surprise every ones pants off. It becomes more a PR thing than just slapping a new name over the henry cullen skeleton. Just get to making your beats first.. Let these things work themselves out later.

What does Justine think about this whole subject? You know they are always right!!

from a punters point of view as long as it sounds good . . . . . . . !! enjoyed the sample - stick the henry cullen bit to it, we will all know n those that dont will soon be educated, and im sure enthusiasts in whatever genre u take a plunge into will find the link between ur present and past if u get me . . . . .

i think it's great to see people producing diverse music - and i think mark's right, the level of success is all about how and where your marketing happens

i guess some people might winge a bit, but it'll only be because they really rate what you do now; which means you'd always be welcomed back with open arms. Although i see no reason why you can't be known for producing different styles of good quality music at the same time

maybe have a go at writing some music for tv adverts, could be a nice little earner and will let you create more diverse music

:cool:
http://www.discogs.com/release/176923

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Originally Posted by massplanck

:cool:
http://www.discogs.com/release/176923

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This is a good record, I remember getting it when it came out. Actually when I was thinking of some of the 'different' stuff I've heard by him in the past the other day, this one sprung to mind.

jeez.. off the wall.. that was a great label..

anyone remember the gizelle & immersion release "1,2"?

No, I had the Higinio 12" though, there was one corker on that... was quite dark if memory serves me correctly.

he did one with chris lib aswell i think

Off The Wall was off the wall maaaaaaan!!

well just thought its funny because the record is described as minimal on discogs. So Dave isnt a bandwagon jumper after he's been a pioneer of the minimal sound since 96.

or maybe it was all lost on ye.

I love explaining jokes.

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

no, no.. basically h, you've tried it but you've not marketed it to the extent you need to...

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I'm gonna have to agree with this. It's the simplest and probably most honest answer. The guys you mentioned, Henry, haven't been able to do whatever they want because they rode a crest of fame or because they are geniuses, or a mix of both. They were able to do it because, upon achieving some success, they got the right people generating a lot of hype behind the newer stuff they did. It's likely just a question of seeing if you can hook up with an organization/business that can do this for you. You've certainly got a large enough discography.