http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature_view.asp?ID=755
Printable View
its says: quote "vinyl's future can’t be anything beyond a collectible novelty"
hasnt it always been that?
well not really, not for those putting it out and relying on it for their income.
interesting read
If I made a living selling plastic I'd be pretty worried right now.
If I made a living selling music I wouldn't be overly concerned.
good point Jay. I really think its time for more people to start thinking outside the box of vinyl only releasing. I mean it is a lovely feeling when you get your pressed records back in, but ultimately, for me anyway, i'd be happy that my music was being released regardless of medium
Heard it all before and it's so full of holes...Quote:
Originally Posted by module
Vinyl will eventually die...but that's because the oil is drying up and it will be rationed sooner than a lot of people think.
well yea thats one side of the fence, but theres the other sideQuote:
Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface
The simple truth is that vinyl isnt a major 'Consumer' format... you cant go to currys and buy a record player. Consumer formats die, thats that.
it'll happen sooner or later. I teach kids in the studio who'v never picked up vinyl, whose parents dont own vinyl, who are almost scared when they have to use even a final scratch record to practice DJing with...
Such a shame.
no, this is bulllshit. that guy's article does not go into enough depth to even make me think any different than i do already. i'm a huge collector of both vinyl and mp3 right now and i still love vinyl...
so does the crowd when they can see me play it. so does my need to be 'ahead of the game', cause record shops have in place something that informaton overload will never have. mp3 format is good but until the mp3 format has an 'automatic' mastering plant then its behind.
i'll put my neck out and say, there's still years to go in vinyl. and i for one will be there.
I wish what you said mark will be the truth. but i fear not. it'll be a sad day for me when people stop making it... i guess the bigger question needs to be ..who actually makes the machinery for the pressing plants and when will it stop being made?
Anyone know?
I'm with Mark on this, vinyl sales are actually up this year and more and more indie bands are cutting 7"s - it's not going away for a long, long time.
well the article hit the nail on the head when it said ... 'vinyl is sexy, dj culture was founded on the medium, and we all owe a debt to the history of wax'....
vinyl is more fun to play with imo... and i do think it looks sexy... and i do belive punters appreciate it more when they see someone rapidly trudging through a box o' vinyl behind the decks than constantly looking at a laptop.... if anything it looks harder work...
i can fully appreciate the benefits for dj's/producers/labels for the the accessability of the digital format.... but you can't feel the mp3 in your hands, you cant get the enjoyment/excitement from it that you get when the postman comes wi' a 12 x 12 parcel full of goodies and you dont know which order it is he is bringing...... the opening of a piece of vinyl for the first time when the inner sleeve is still closed, reading the smart arse remarks cut into the end of the vinyl grooves, reading the sleeve notes and looking at the cover for the 20th time and only noticing something new on it that you cant belive you overlooked all those other times... none of these experiences you can have from mp3....
you dont have the feeling of satisfaction with an mp3 that you get recieving a perfectly cut piece of vinyl which is heavy to the feel and which the needle rides perfectly..... okay... wi mp3 you dont have the frustration of warped,scratched, dusty records being played ... but as long as there are people like me who love receiving , playing, hoarding, swapping vinyl i belive and hope that people will keep putting it out!!
Still think final scratch is the best of all worlds.
All the human timing, feel, and tactility of vinyl and none of bad points - scratched records, heavy boxes, crap pressing quality which varies from record to record.
I'll always use decks because I like them. I think so long as djs support vinyl there will be a market for it, but it will become more and more niche. It will evenutally become a format purely for djs, I'm pretty sure everything will eventually get released on multiple formats simultaneously (records need to sell after all), djs buy vinyl, public buy mp3 or cd.
There will always be a market for it, just wish people would hurry the hell up and start releasing on mp3. Getting tired of buying vinyl only to record it as a wav and convert it into an mp3. Plenty of producers missing a trick here....
This is very much true but it also show the downside of it imo. Harddrives, no mather if they are inside a laptop or not, are not really build to move around a lot and being shipped or what ever. I've seen it ones that a dj came to play at a local club having his laptop with him and a few minutes before the performance he realised his HD was not working anymore, no vinyl with him to make a performace or something so the show wass canceled... major bummer, no fee for the performance, lost almost all his music (and therefore all the money spend on it because he had no back up of his files..) neede to start over again...Quote:
and storing MP3s is infinitely easier than vinyl. In fact, the storage issue was a major motivation behind my decision to switch – I’d simply run out of room. Now my entire collection is stored on one 300GB hard drive[
Now i'm a vinyl addict..
when i play a Otis Redding album on vinyl and close my eyes it is almost like im there in the studio, i most defenitly don't have this feeling when i play a cd or mp3 file..
Same goes with EDM... vinyl imo gives it something extra and i cannot really explain what it is
i also with Mark on this.
I think technology will come to it that we can press our own vinyl at home and buy this equipment relativily cheap... perhaps new form of wax that will last ... Who knows what they come up with next..
But ...
I think this is the kill...Quote:
I teach kids in the studio who'v never picked up vinyl, whose parents dont own vinyl, who are almost scared when they have to use even a final scratch record to practice DJing with...
yep and in fact single 7"s are outselling cd singles for the same artists in many cases. problem is the whole of the singles market is reducingQuote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dust
the singles market has been declining for years.
i dont think its healthy to think that vinyl definately will not die at some point, of course there are a good few years left, but one day, maybe not even in our lifetime, supplies of oil will hit such a drastic point that it is inevitable that alot of things will cease to be produced. Not just vinyl, but all kinds of oil based products, and there are way more than people think. Check out fractional distillation, might make things a bit clearer to some people.
Vinyl won`t die for a while.
Dance music on vinyl will.
Dance music is unfashionable and has a shrinking, aging fan base.
The music doesn`t engage the younger generations in almost any way, and as there are no bands crossing over into dance any more, I can`t see any hope for it.
and who cares anyway, change is to be embraced, in this, the foul year of our lord 2006.
Many things have changed and it isn't as simple as just naming one factor because there are many that have impacted not only on vinyl but music sales as a whole.
Getting back to "that" article, it was written to cause a fuss and has been spammed on every forum known to man and if you read it you can suss that it's part bollocks starting with his 4 hour set bullshit, how the **** do you mix stuff you've not heard for a start...
The singles market has be declining because the industry ****ed it completely up by marketing everything at teenage girls, this is pretty much what happened to Smash Hits, in the end it was taking to 8-11yr old girls, not cool and not something anyone else would aspire to - they painted themselves into a corner and it cost them their jobs.
And now that we have music on "tap" it holds no value to todays youth as it's all-ways free and "there". But to believe it was ever going to stay the same would be a tad stupid, RCA for example never made any money from their label(s) but they did make money from selling record players, another example of how strange the biz world is one famous book store in NYC makes more money from selling coffee than it does books and if you look what Virgin and Tower have had to do to their stores to survive it makes for an interesting biz model. If you don't change, you are ****ed...
Oil is going knowhere for a long time and won't really be a factor in what happens to vinyl, it has never impacted on the price and I don't see a reason why it should start now.
Itunes isn't the answer either for Techno artists, take a look at their charts and then take a look every week - they don't change much do they - Born Slippy anyone :) Selling MP3's/Wavs will help small labels but it won't pay the bills so for now you just have to box clever...Vinyl will still be here for a long time yet
Yeah, spot on Martin.
All the fortune tellers saying it's going to soon disappear in dance music are pretty wrong.
A few question to think about:
What 'big' labels don't put out vinyl anymore? How many records that you see on record review pages aren't on vinyl? How many labels who switched solely to digital have seen their profile drop a lot?
The fact is that a vinyl release holds more weight than a digital release, for many many reasons.
Vinyl is going nowhere.
OK, but go back a mere ten years ago.
CD decks in their infancy. No final scratch. No ableton djs. Mp3s still a clunky format. No broadband.
And look where we are now. Now guess where we will be in ten years time.
There's life in the old dog yet, but its an archaic format for those growing up now. The scene can't survive on a bunch of aging vinyl afficionado's. Try explaining to a kid why he has to pay 9 times as much for a piece of plastic than an mp3. For those without the heritage, without the fond memories, vinyl is a clunky obselete format championed by an ever dwindling group of fogeys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
Like I said, things have to change, but vinyl as a format will be here to stay for a long while yet, just accept that it's not mass market anymore and we'll be fine...
I disagree and so do the recent sales figures...Quote:
There's life in the old dog yet, but its an archaic format for those growing up now. The scene can't survive on a bunch of aging vinyl afficionado's. Try explaining to a kid why he has to pay 9 times as much for a piece of plastic than an mp3. For those without the heritage, without the fond memories, vinyl is a clunky obselete format championed by an ever dwindling group of fogeys.
I'm not talking about the present though, I'm talking about its future. Kids aren't buying into it as much, and the older amongst us grow out of it eventually.
So with a high drop out rate at the older end of the spectrum, and a low uptake at the younger end, there's trouble afoot.
There's always a heritage factor. I took home crates and crates of old soul and motown from my dad. Some absolute gems in there. I'll always have love for it, and I know others will. I'm not convinced that the average teenager is that arsed though...
Forget the mass market and the average teenager tho, who is trying to sell them 12"s - I'm certianly not, that's why we do CD's/MP3/WAVs - that market has gone forever and the soon we all accept it the better...
True dat.
Wonder how it will affect the turntable market? Turntables outsold guitars at one point. Loadsa money poured into R&D and now there are zillions of new decks on the market. Who's buying them?
Amen brother... same point as i was making.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Vibrancy comes from the young. if they aint vibing neither is the object.
im not old. :paranoid:
You ARE joking i hope? ..Quote:
how the **** do you mix stuff you've not heard for a start...
i dont know where to begin. ;)
Same as any industry, if they sales aren't there - they'll make less and do less R and D, biz 101 says full shelves equals negative equity = bad
Bang on.Quote:
Oil is going knowhere for a long time and won't really be a factor in what happens to vinyl, it has never impacted on the price and I don't see a reason why it should start now.
The way i see it is that people get confused between the argument about making money form vinyl sales and vinyl as a format.
Making money on vinyl... good solid money, thats in some doubt - i dont have the personal experience of selling vinyl (YET) to comment on this, but from what pepople have said they find it difficult mainly because of the logistics.
Keeping the format alive. Why not... its a funny old game, minidisc is dying a death.. 8 track did too... CD seems to be under attack.. tape is going.. as the oldest method of reproducing sound, vinyl (Or waveforms captured in the physical analog method) has been around since victorian times (wax cyclinders.. essentially the same method..) It may well be around for ever...
now if only they could make those japanese laser vinyl players cheaper...
i dont care if the vinyl does die, as long as we can always get new techno sounds somehow.
the king is dead................long live techno :toast:
the thing that worrys me is if vinyl does go the way of the dinosaur and mp3 completely takes over the world will it make music less special? will there no longer be a need to search out that "classic tune" from years ago? maybe its a good thing, maybe the mass availability of music will encourage more dj's to create there own stuff just to set themselves apart.
Also i think that the ease and relative cheapness that people can get into music production these days is and will have a major impact on vinyl sales because is someone going to bother learning about making records when he/she can just get it published and sold online and target the giant iPOD generation....i personally would like to support vinyl because A:- ive got shit loads of records, and B:- ive spent a lot of money on them!!!! oh wel fuk it!!!....whatever happens i think the advancement of technology will ultimately spell the end for vinyl (i reckon 15 years tops) and the future probaly lies in hybrid solutions such as final scratch.
Why is he joking?Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgyedgy
The author from what I took in from that article is the stereotypical 'cool' DJ priding himself on playing "upfront" music and getting lots of promos... when the fact is he should probably try a bit harder in approaching DJing tham merely playing just the latest tunes he gets in the post. How the hell do you expect to give people a proper set if you're playing four hours of music you only got that week?!
http://www.peak-oil.org/Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dust
If you don't believe we're already experiencing the effects of peak oil then you're in la la land. For right now we're okay on vinyl production prices, but the consumer prices are skyrocketing. Not only is vinyl partially made with oil, but the machines that press vinyl rely on it. It's getting costly to operate those machines. Once it's pressed up...the trucks, planes, trains, and boats rely on oil/gas/petrol to get the records from the plants to the shops and finally into our hands. If this scene makes it long enough to the time period where we start having serious global issues...well, I have a feeling importing techno vinyl will be relatively low on the list of priorities for shipping ports.
Let's look at it from your angle now. Say myself and the rest of the scientists are wrong and peak oil is bullshit. Oil is still on the rise everyday and its driving shipping costs up big time. Here in the United States, an imported record costs an average of $12US...probably around £5 if my math is right. Now tack on the U.S. sales tax per state, which is probably an average of 6 cents. Rounding off, you're looking at $12.50 for one record, which we all know there is usually about one decent track on it. It sucks when you drop $25 at the record shop and come home with two tracks. For this reason alone, many people I know have either quit DJing or stopped buying vinyl. The mark up at an average U.S. record shop is only $3 so the only people who are really making any money is the shipping companies, who in return also give a good part of their money to big oil. Economics baby.
As long as there are music purists, vinyl won't die.
As long as there are producers making music the oldschool way,
it will always sound great on vinyl....
I heard on the 'net that vinyl sounds way better than MP3s. This got me thinking... I hate how when you go to the movies or IMAX and the voice behind the screen says "Welcome to IMAX! Featuring a four-story high screen and fully uncompressed THX digital audio!" I'm like... wtf? Put the audio on vinyl! This digital shit is too clean! GRRR</sarcasm>
Yeah, digital blows... and it's not cool whatsoever... argh ;D
Oh yeah, buying vinyl is just a hobby like buying model cars or beanie babies. Model cars will be around as long as theres plastic, beanie babies will be around as long as theres beans...
I am committed to playing music on whatever format is deemed coolest.
well that's kinda the point, as plastic is one of the lower by products of oil, as i said earlier, fractional distillation, vinyl is made up of the lowest by product of oil, the really crappy residue, kinda bitumen, so when, and this will happen like i said probably not in our lifetime, but with the situation with oil how it is already, globally, in say maybe 50, 60, 100 years no one knows exactly, but there will come a time when the oil literaly runs out, and when it happens, it's the least important products that people will notice dropping off the shelves gradually over the years. It wont be overnight of course, but by logic and todays current climates, it's gonna happen one day. So those model car's will also slowly start to become harder to get hold of as the oil does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spire
one of the second least important by products of oil in terms of quality is crude oil, mostly used as shipping fuel. So over time there will be less and less shipping options as the fuel becomes more scarce and expensive.
as ive said i really dont see it happening in our lifetime, and i hope it doesnt i'd like to see vinyl survive just as much as the next man.
this debate has got to be in the top 3 ever techno internet debates by now surely? :)
Jay Pace: Then go buy a guitar and get on stage, the chicks won't even care about the fact that you totally suck and your amp's speaker is blown. ;D DJs don't got shit on lead guitarists! Or buy a TC Helicon and sing your way into their hearts...
Yeah. Techno artists/producers are kinda retarded with this whole obsession of sound quality and image. There's the 'vinyl sounds better' people, and then there's the 'vinyl looks cooler' people, and then the 'Ableton gives more creativity' people and so on and so on. I show my brother this stuff who plays in a rock band and he's like "Who gives a flying **** either way? Just make music and quit being obsessive compulsive homos. It's all about the girls in the end anyway!!" Haha, and it's true! If the ladies like your techno, be it from vinyl or Ableton, you won't really give a ****. You guys worry too much about the other techno-heads in the crowd that are actually noticing the things that the drunk ladies don't even give a **** about. Make techno that makes girls horny by whatever means possible... that's my philosophy. (well a big part atleast heh)Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spire
Man, did I get it wrong with final scratch.
I should have just bought myself some tight leather trousers and whinged into a microphone.
Played out with FS2 for the first time this weekend.
Bye Bye Vinyl.
vinyl is great. one of the only forms of mutlimedia that cant be copied illegally.
Wanna bet?
http://content.answers.com/main/cont...x-VRX-2000.jpg
A snip at £2k
eh? people have been doing this for years, from small artists in their studio's to business's on the high streetQuote:
Originally Posted by djfilthmonger
people have been doing what for years coping music or coping records ???
1.MP3 ---> i always have WAV due to the fact i only use my own loops/trax when using Ableton, ot i record vinyl as WAV & snip out loops.
2.Vinyl Cutters ---> overpriced & not that good. had 3 records done by various ppl with different machines, and they arent very good at all. noy only are the machines a few grand, ya need to know how to re-master for cutting, the vinyl is very very expensive and they dont last too long at all.
anyway, i linked the article as a good read, nit becaudse i believe the whole oiece. jus thought it was one of the better small articles on the subject. oh, and i do think its on its way out.
I hope vinyl doesnt die out. im not into ableton and all that myself.
much better to go out and watch someone using vinyl, its not ALL about the way it sounds and the technology used, i think a bit of it is about interacting/ watchin what a dj is doing too.. i dont get the same buzz off watching someone on a laptop, probably cos i cant see how theyre making it happen or see what effort is involved? I think alot of people that go to parties just to go out and dance, and that arent dj's or music producers, would agree...... but thats just my opinion.
im gonna keep bying vinyl anyways even if it turns out to be that in the next 5 years the majority of people are buying or rippin mp3's off the net :)
Not really the poing I was making, which was that it won't impact on the price...but I do take your point on-board...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn