Retracing history to predict where techno is going.

You know I went through lots of old stuff recently. From early 90's Plus 8, to R+S to Midtown to Industrial Strength to Lab Works to Communique to even Transmat to all the Jack Trax and acid house shit. I looked at the music as a progression, rather than a particualr style and I was blown away by a few things.

1st of all. Let's take this minimal thing. It's a buzz word, but if you look back on 90's techno, most of it was minimal - just a little less well produced and with more innocence. For those minimal haters out there, i don't get you. Can't you see that it's just a progression and is pretty much the same shit as the ppl you're influenced from???

2nd: The schranz thing and even minimal is for sure taking things to an extreme. And if you look at techno or even house from the 80's and 90's, you'll see that ppl take the thing that is the most in fashion and totally go to an extreme.

God I could go on but I'm dying to get back into the studio to play some of this early stuff. Hehehe.

Let's get your own comments! Do any of you have any other observations????? Looking forward to reading them :)

I wrote something similar months ago.
when people get tired of something or frustrated, they tend to go extreme - not only in music. you might notice the same tendency in, let say, politics...

screw the hate, why poison your heart with hate when there's so much things to love - again, not only in music. :cheese:

minimal, house, techno, speedcore, jazz, soul, rock, metal.. whatever... you can find quality in any genre if you really want to. :)

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

You know I went through lots of old stuff recently. From early 90's Plus 8, to R+S to Midtown to Industrial Strength to Lab Works to Communique to even Transmat to all the Jack Trax and acid house shit. I looked at the music as a progression, rather than a particualr style and I was blown away by a few things.

1st of all. Let's take this minimal thing. It's a buzz word, but if you look back on 90's techno, most of it was minimal - just a little less well produced and with more innocence. For those minimal haters out there, i don't get you. Can't you see that it's just a progression and is pretty much the same shit as the ppl you're influenced from???

2nd: The schranz thing and even minimal is for sure taking things to an extreme. And if you look at techno or even house from the 80's and 90's, you'll see that ppl take the thing that is the most in fashion and totally go to an extreme.

God I could go on but I'm dying to get back into the studio to play some of this early stuff. Hehehe.

Let's get your own comments! Do any of you have any other observations????? Looking forward to reading them :)

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even im loving more minimal at the moment dude.
mutate to survive.

its funny me and my freind were discussing this the other day everything seems to go round in cycle's doesn't it with music. look at all the minu's getting re released. they even have some in HMV in leeds. In fact hmv has a full section selling anything fromm player to stuff on miditional!!!! And they even label it as wonky techno ha ha.
I think what happens is when someone gets nored of things they go back to their roots, back to the early stuff they bought and because they haven't played if for a long time they forget how good it actually was.

I'd say the Detroit bug has caught on again in a new form. It's in the spotlight quite a bit lately partly due to the Detroit influence on new mnml music. Some tunes are just straight up Detroit jams like Martin Buttrich's Planet E record. Others are just bastard attempts at Detroit techno.

i never was hating the music
but i hate the trend
and i hate stupid forcing of stuff
my image of a perfect scene would be lots of people making lots of music
not 50% of people making minimal and 50% making the rest
and i ****ing hate i cant listen to techno anywhere cause minimal and prog is in every club
and the people who come to these parties dont dance
they just stand around, nod their heads, drink their beers, and talk to people
and i hate when people get overexcited about some stupid song (which is good but not THAT good) who go "u dont like it? ure weird"
**** the trends
i didnt listen to techno neither when grindvik & hardcell, redhead and hertz style got popular :\

I wouldn't agree minimal techno in the begin 90s is not so well produced. Minimal nowadays is too clean produced. This doens't count for all minimal releases. There are some records that still have that industrial cutting edge.

Well as for retracing the past to predict or expect the future...

....cycles that refer to current environment is all you need to know.

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

For those minimal haters out there, i don't get you. Can't you see that it's just a progression and is pretty much the same shit as the ppl you're influenced from???

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Sorry but I think that's grossly unfair - it's like saying I should prefer my coffee black because my mum drinks black coffee.

I don't like minimal. I don't like it because I just don't like it. I can't help not liking it and nor should I have to justify why I don't like it (in much the same why minimal fans shouldn't have to justify why they do like it).

It's just a personal preference - like saying some people like their coffee black with two sugars and others like it white and without sugar.

who does minimal techno like basic channel, rob hood or maurizio nowadays?

the new minimal, IMO, has nothing on the minimal techno classics

I think trying to track trends is a negative.
Or more of a means to figure out what will sell.
People should be doing what the feel.
If someone does minimal with a hard techno kick and a tribal rhythm
It should just be categorized at techno

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

I think trying to track trends is a negative.
Or more of a means to figure out what will sell.
People should be doing what the feel.
If someone does minimal with a hard techno kick and a tribal rhythm
It should just be categorized at techno

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and also i'd like to see some diversity on one record,
like it used to be on an EP. not strictly one kind of sound,
or strictly bound by certain rules.
i think with this in mind, people would take more time to make a record, but if the result is there.... it's there!

i think music has become too pigeon holed. Too many producers releasing the same sound over and over...
diverse eps is a great idea.
unfortunately its the same with most nights out. warm up dj plays the same as the main dj. it can get really boring.

This is a problem with techno at the moment I think, cause I do go to other gigs where there is a nice mash up (usually resulting in end of night breakcore!).

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

I think trying to track trends is a negative.
Or more of a means to figure out what will sell.
People should be doing what the feel.
If someone does minimal with a hard techno kick and a tribal rhythm
It should just be categorized at techno

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too right

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Originally Posted by prozac

i think music has become too pigeon holed. Too many producers releasing the same sound over and over...
diverse eps is a great idea.
unfortunately its the same with most nights out. warm up dj plays the same as the main dj. it can get really boring.

This is a problem with techno at the moment I think, cause I do go to other gigs where there is a nice mash up (usually resulting in end of night breakcore!).

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It's a problem with EDM throughout.

one of the main problems is that a big part of the crowd is not open-minded. an example:

bitstream played here last june. berghain is a techno club and there is always played 4/4 stuff. so i quite wondered they had invited bitstream. the dj who played the warm up (i really admire him cause he always plays fantastic stuff) made a really big mistake. he played 4/4 stuff all the way although he should have known that bitstream were an electro/idm act. so when they began their set after 5 minutes almost the whole floor was empty. only cause the played (really brilliant) electro. i mean it is ****in electro. its not so far away from techno like breakcore for example. how stupid can people be?!

lots of the (local) djs dont have the nuts to play some different stuff. one of the reasons is the little story i mentioned above.

i always end up saying this on the "techno going forward" type threads, but the key is

fewer tracks
more songs

make more music of lasting, rather than fleeting, value.

ignore trends unless you use them strictly as a frame of reference to make music that has value outside a given tiny substratum of techno or a particular year.

:rueek: SONGS?????? :rueek:

You'll be saying 'Make it more R&B'ish' next!!!

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Originally Posted by fac

one of the main problems is that a big part of the crowd is not open-minded. an example:

bitstream played here last june. berghain is a techno club and there is always played 4/4 stuff. so i quite wondered they had invited bitstream. the dj who played the warm up (i really admire him cause he always plays fantastic stuff) made a really big mistake. he played 4/4 stuff all the way although he should have known that bitstream were an electro/idm act. so when they began their set after 5 minutes almost the whole floor was empty. only cause the played (really brilliant) electro. i mean it is ****in electro. its not so far away from techno like breakcore for example. how stupid can people be?!

lots of the (local) djs dont have the nuts to play some different stuff. one of the reasons is the little story i mentioned above.

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this can be a problem, people as a whole aren`t too open for change, until that "diference" is popular enough to be acceptable.
Which is a double edged sword.

However, you can never predict where a music will go, and hopefully should never be able too.
I don`t think the comparisons to early minimal techno productions and the stuff made now stand up.
What is called minimal now is closer to house really in groove and tempo, and has a certain style, rather than just containing less sounds, and therefore being minimal.

Even then, when you talk about predicting where techno is going, really what you are talking about, is what the majority of techno fans will consider cool to listen/dance too.
Techno is already going in a hundred different directions, but unfortunately somewhere in the chain, the promoters, DJ`s, or party goers, really seem to want monochromatic sounds at their events.

I hope for the future that the fans will want to embrace the backlash against stagnation that has caused lots of producers to fly off in all sorts of directions, and that we will see events with a good cross section of techno sounds.
Really the sound in you average techno club hasn`t change that much in the last 4-6 years. New records, same sound.

So where techno goes is not really a question for me, I hope it goes everywhere, I just wish/hope, that the fans open up to more diversity.

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Originally Posted by force

:rueek: SONGS?????? :rueek:

You'll be saying 'Make it more R&B'ish' next!!!

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the point is simple: make music that's a lasting statement. not just bang-bang-blip-blip like all the rest so no one cares in 2 years.

listen to old basic channel records. they were minimal, they were repetitive, but they were SONGS. and they STILL sound better than any "minimal" made today.

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

listen to old basic channel records. they were minimal, they were repetitive, but they were SONGS. and they STILL sound better than any "minimal" made today.

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couldnt agree more

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

who does minimal techno like basic channel, rob hood or maurizio nowadays?

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I do, send me a pm with ur address...

Also check out some of Echoplex's work.


-Greg

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Originally Posted by fac

couldnt agree more

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There's plenty of good stuff out there, what are you guys listening to that's so shit?

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Originally Posted by Martin Dust

There's plenty of good stuff out there

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agree again. but for me not among this so-called minimal stuff.

The future of techno is pretty bleak. A genre of music that relies on electricy more than any other trying to survive in world of energy efficiency & climate change. Its faint memory carried on by Mad-Max style troubadors, haunting the land, singing songs of a world long extinct.

Techno has about as much of a future as ancient greek music did.

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Originally Posted by fac

agree again. but for me not among this so-called minimal stuff.

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You not feeling things like Bitstream, Stott, Claro etc?

where is bitstream minimal? i know not one single minimal track from them. i like some records from andy stott and claro intelecto tho. but thats the more detroit oriented stuff.

see that's the problem with labelling stuff. I hate genre names - it serves no good at all

There's plenty of good minimal stuff out there at the moment (ala Basic Channel, Rob Hood, etc.). Try checking out the Deepchord or Echochord labels. It's really great dubbed out minimal...as in there is literally only like a synth, a kick drum and a hi hat, sometimes not even that. Rod Modell makes some great stuff and Vanquier just put out something recently as well.

It's kind of like Dirty Bass said, the stuff classified these days as minimal is actually more like house music than minimal. The world minimal has just become an umbrella term just like techno is. And as Darkside said, there is plenty of good music going around at the moment...so if you're not finding quality music then you're not looking hard enough.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing techno move down to the BPM of like 115bpm jackin acid-house type tracks. Bring some old school flare, b-boy attitude, and 80s influence into the mix.

thats why i said so-called minimal stuff. most of it is more tech house in my opinion. since minimal is so popular they call almost everything minimal. there are even minimal floors on most of the parties here.

deepchord is great of course and also that new stuff coming from the hard wax camp. like scion versions 001 (if you were referring to that talking about recent vainqueur) or some hot t++ shit.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

The future of techno is pretty bleak. A genre of music that relies on electricy more than any other trying to survive in world of energy efficiency & climate change. Its faint memory carried on by Mad-Max style troubadors, haunting the land, singing songs of a world long extinct.

Techno has about as much of a future as ancient greek music did.

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What does that leave for the future of music in general then, minus electronics?

Symphonic, ok I can dig that.
Folk? evil dirge
irish folk? evil dirge that thinks it better than it is because it`s irish
Rock bands playing accoustically? poncey turgid wailing middle class trash

In fact without electricity a hell of a lot of music will die, as well as the means of playing it at home, as well as lighting your home etc.

LOLZERS @ that argument. Generating electricity to power things (and make techno) is a problem which is much easier to solve than most forthcoming doomsday scenarios. You would have more to worry about such as disease, heat, starvation, lack of clean water, and war than you do having electricity to power 909s, iPods, and laptops.

It's also pretty ridiculous to link the fall of a corrupt ancient civilization to the popularity-loss of a genre of modern music.

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Originally Posted by Martin Dust

There's plenty of good stuff out there, what are you guys listening to that's so shit?

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i DO like dust science...

Sarcasm gets lost on a whole lot of people.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

Sarcasm gets lost on a whole lot of people.

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I got it:;

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Originally Posted by Clit Commander

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing techno move down to the BPM of like 115bpm jackin acid-house type tracks. Bring some old school flare, b-boy attitude, and 80s influence into the mix.

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Belgian New Beat!
http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=18910
http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=22635

its all nostalgia tho, nothing new...


In the world of Italo/disco jacking chicago tracks mde a big comeback this year. Probably cause thats the avenue that legowelt explored. Artists like Dj Traxx and Mr.Fingers were rediscovered...

Techno will all-ways be on the edge of the next page ;)

I'd like to predict for the next couple of years:

- Soon, no label will release vinyl, because it doesn't sell.

- Record stores, specialized in underground dance music will all stop, or sell different stuff like little dolls or fashion and trends.

- Soon, techno music will only be heared at events. Or through free downloads of livesets from different artists.

- Artists who are already known, and know they have enough payed gigs a year, go on. Others who don't, look for something else to live on, or just are crazy enough to put all their money in their studios, because they don't care.

- DJ's / producers will join networks where they can share quality sounds and tracks they want, to play out at gigs. Or they can choose to stay individual and purely play their own exclusive stuff.

- Artists / labels / bookers / promotors must have 100% insight on all reliable sources on the digital highway.

- Publishers for techno music will have to revision their system, because as I pointed out in the first line, there are no records.

- Because of the change in the whole system, underground music events wont have to pay recettes anymore to the authorities. But they will still pay lot of other stuff. Eventually, legal events will have to professionalize like a fully functional company. But because we know they won't, that will also be over soon.

- Soon, all music professionals will have to organise general workshops discussing all the changes and the new rules this game. (promotions, marketing. compatibility of the system, how do we survive)

- Old markets disappear. New markets will be born.

Considering the current trends in 'four-to-the -floor' kick-drum-orientated genres it is impossible to ignore the currently en-vogue electro-y house-y shit thats knockin arond these days which, with one quick browse on soulseek would seem to be very popular. With some tracks its evident the sound in its own right pays homage to some of the old minimal-y shit, but with splashes of the new style production like in flange-y hi-hats etc. etc.

Modern day "minimal" comes form both techno and house, and you do find that a lot of it is the more house style (maybe as it has become more popular and "mainstream" thus house is more acceptable to the average listener than techno).
Personally I prefer the more techno end of minimal, such as Dapayk, Afternoon Cofee Boys, Camea, Tony Rohr, Sweet N Candy etc. Still comes under the umbrella term of Minimal, but definitely more from the techno end of the spectrum.

Vinyl sales are nowadays between 300 and 1800 copies depending on how "trendy" your release is. I'd say it will take quite a few (I guess at least 20) more years before people *really* stop making new cuts. To me, vinyl is a very steady media after all, with the analog mastering and processing, the sound is often perceived as superior to the digital master.
CDR and hard drive media are changing and breaking every 3 to 5 years already from my experience. About 30% of my mp3 tracks (about 70 GB) have gone missing and / or needed re-recording since 2000.
Another thing is that the club culture is going strong as ever, so there is definetly a stream of money coming in. The key issue is, as that mnml trendy crap showed - the apparent lack of creativity among the new producers.
My guess is that most of them were "directed" by their APPLE (yes it has to be one) Powerbook to "create" their non-music.
Back in the 90s, computers were not powerful enough and the access to decent studio gear was very limited. The people who got their hands on a 909 were determined "soldiers" with a vision.
Still, I'm pretty optimistic that there is a lasting future for techno if you cut the crap out with a sharp knife. The pseudo mnml as well as the electroclash, schranz etc. will eventually fade and something "worse" will be on the frontpage...still no reason to say all is at the end.

Yey..!

More good stuff... I like the Ritzi Lee post n t-dj there...

Another thread that should be archived to be reflected upon in a year or so...:techno:

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Originally Posted by massplanck

The future of techno is pretty bleak. A genre of music that relies on electricy more than any other trying to survive in world of energy efficiency & climate change. Its faint memory carried on by Mad-Max style troubadors, haunting the land, singing songs of a world long extinct.

Techno has about as much of a future as ancient greek music did.

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but there will always be things to turn into percussion instruments...so when the world goes mad, we'll all go Einstürzende Neubauten-ish and just roll rocks thru pipes and bang on abandoned cars... ;)