Im going through the proccess of recording my vinyl to my p.c,but when i play them back their not a patch on how the vinyl sounds physicaly.
Whats the best way to do this and get the original sound back once digitised?
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Im going through the proccess of recording my vinyl to my p.c,but when i play them back their not a patch on how the vinyl sounds physicaly.
Whats the best way to do this and get the original sound back once digitised?
record them through Cool Edit or Adobi audition. You can reduce hisses and pops through that.
I record in to soundforge and mess with the wav best i can,i dont have a problem getting rid of hiss n crackles,its just that the sound quality is nowhere near as sharp as my downloaded digital stuff??
and it prolly never will be. digital stuff is usually taken direct from the digital masters, whereas the tunes on the wax have to be mastered specially for vinyl. you do lose some of the "sharper" frequency stuff in vinyl mastering, whereas you also gain some warmth from some subtle distortion.Quote:
Originally Posted by tots
plus, dj cartridges are not made for audiophile sound quality. they are made to stay in the groove. it WILL help if you find yourself an audiophile quality cartridge, but technics were also never made to be for hi fi.
i would suggest buying the digital files of anything you can find that you already own (unless you can't afford it, then you have to live with what you have). a little subtle eqing may sharpen up your vinyl recordings, but don't expect it to ever sound the same as your digital files.
There will be a difference compared to downloaded digital stuff (that hasnt been pressed to a record, played through a needle, sent thru a soundcard etc etc) but some would say that's got its plus points
What soundcard/hardware are you using? You don't need a super-duper soundcard, but it helps to have something better than your internal pc sound.
I know these are really simple things but make sure you have clean, new needles, and get the levels right: your input level in Soundforge or whatever, should be as high as possible without clipping, about -6-12db is fine
Hope that helps anyway
really appreciate your advice guys!im recording through my mixer straight in to my p.c and doing all the things you mention,needles are good and i use a yamaha ds1 soundcard,which is pretty good!
I think like you say,the way to go forward is to keep downloading and maybe mix my existing vinyl with the digital files,im using serato so i can do that,was just hoping to drop the burden of taking my plastic everywhere i play and get my collection saved to the hard drive but i suppose the more i download the less ill use my wax! Just a bit of a barstuard that ive spent over £300 on vinyl a couple a months before i got the scratch software!
you shouldnt have any problems getting a good recording from vinyl. i digitised my entire collection years ago and its perfectly playable.
the way i did it
all eq's on mixer at neutral
record it so that the loudest part of the track just slightly clips on the mixer and hits about -1/-2 on the editor record meter.
add the slightest touches of eq in the audio editor afterwards (only very very slight touches) - use the best software eq you can find, has to be totally transparent. flux epure for example
render the file to the highest quality mp3 that you can.
good luck.. tkes bloody ages!!!!
When you say neutral do you mean eq's down to zero then pump it up with eq's on my software?Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
Don't pump it at all, anywhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by tots
eq's bang in the middle and like theledge said dont pump it at all.
use a transparent eq for little touches but ONLY if you need to (ie: old vinyl thats lost some thump) - but you really need to know exactly what you're doing with the eq.
the aim is to get a degraded vinyl back to as close to the original recording as possible.. not to add anything to it.
hence a good quality transparent eq (one that doesnt impart its own sound/tone on the recording)
They were, the first 1200's were sold without tone arms in the hi-fi specialist magazines as users often prefered to add their own tone arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by djshiva
The most important issue with recording vinyl is the LEVEL. Recording through a DJ mixer is also a bad thing IMO, mixers are meant to colour the sound and when you play back your recorded mixes back through the same DJ mixer you used to record them then its being given double colour.
The problem with the needles as i see it is that the depth of the cut on modern dance music records is pretty deep and as such the audiophile needles in the hi-fi scene were not designed in mind with that level of vibration. On the other hand DJ needles are not really designed to bring back high levels of quality (they're pretty close though). Of course all this is much of a muchness Decent Q DJ needles should be fine to record your music, but its the signal path thats the killer.
Of course ya stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of RCA pre-amps. DJ mixers are the best place to find em but some are of course better than others. I find the pioneer mixers quite transparent but prefer the sound of my vestax.. warmer fuller.
Anyway....[/RAMBLE]
huh. i had read that the technics 1200 wasn't the best for audiophile quality because of the noise from the (required for djing) very powerful platter/torque?Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
i won't proclaim myself a great expert on it, but was repeating what i had read before.
and yeah, dj mixers bad. i run my table through a soundboard with built in RIAA eq for vinyl ripping. lil soundcraft compact 4. does the trick.
You are right, although the deck WAS sold as a hi-Fi seperate it didnt last very long in that market for the reasons you outlined above, hence why the very best Hi-Fi decks are belt drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by djshiva
Gota love wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200
Agreed with barry and most comments here,
Maybe save your tunes as WAV format,
propably you spend more your hard disk space but **** mp3 m8
i would also say give your records a damn good clean. it's like getting a bag of new records.
i spent a whole day cleaning a bag of 45 records while i was abroad with some time to kill and i was amazed at the difference. the records sounded so much better, less crackle crisper highs etc.
if you can be bothered i'd seriously recommend it.
i had a go at digitising some vinyl and i found that they just don't have as much punch as the digital tracks and tbh i really couldn't be bothered.
it's far quicker and easier just to buy the tune again in a digital format.
Also even with solid technics there's still going to be a certain amount of looseness in the speed which isn't too much of a problem for myself with Traktor but i reckon with Ableton it could be a bit of a ballache getting it to sync
bit of washing up liquid and some warm water
always does the trick
How are you saving the files once recorded? Because, using soundforge as a recorder, I've recorded full sets of vinyl off boards on a crappy sigmatel soundcard and it sounds fine. If there are noticable differences, check you're whole set up from the physical to the software. It shouldn't really sound any different at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by tots
I record into SoundForge as well and do what I can to manually get rid of clicks/pops and use it to boost the signal that comes in on my soundcard.
Before recording, I give the record a wipedown with some Gruv Glide. I was using a Shure M97X-E to record with - since I understand Eliptical styluses get a better frequency response (but aren't as good for tracking) and it has one of those little brushes in front of the needle to remove dust.
I have it going into a BBE FJB-200x phono pre-amp, which you can pick up for $50, and then into my RME card.
I find this works pretty well and tracks sound good and bumpin' unless the vinyl is in shit condition.
Sounds expensive but sounds just right!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRev
Also+1 for the TEPID (not warm henry... you could overdo that with disasterous consequences) + A small amount of washing up liquid... makes them vinyls sound good as new!!! Plus it looks mad as **** when your doing it.
I dunno. I feel like we need more info. If the music otherwise sounds good being played through the speakers straight from the vinyl, I don't see how giving it an actual wash with anything is going to affect how it sounds digitally.
+1.. more info is always good. As for washing it, it gets rid of grease in the grooves and particles of dust and dirt, so thats a good thing right?Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Exactly. It's funny, when you are playing the files off computer and next to purely digital files, you notice it a lot more when there are little clicks, pops etc you might ignore if you were just playing straight vinyl.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
Cleaning the vinyl keeps those to a minimum.
also make sure it's PH neutral so i doesn't corrode the grooves, or so i've been toldQuote:
Originally Posted by RDR
Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
cleaner sound from the vinyl will give you a cleaner record on the digital front.
Not denying that. But, I'd like a better description of the sound issue. If it sounds good going through the mixer, but sounds like shit recorded off that mixer onto the computer, it's not the cleanliness of the vinyl that's an issue.
I'll clean my records with denatured alcohol and a lint-free optical grade cloth...then record thru the A&H Xone 62 into my Presonus Firebox at 24bit 48kHz, normalize the file after and create 320kBps MP3 from that for the portable version (I retain both and use the .wav w/Serato or FS) Sounds great!
Well what I tend to do if make sure EVERY element in the chain is as perfect as it can be. Let's start from the top (the very first point of contact):
Record: Cleaned with Surgical Spirit and one of those cotton wool pads
Needle + Cartridge: Shure N44-7 and M44-7
Deck: 1210
DJ Mixer: Allen and Heath Xone 64 (although Pioneer are perfect too)
Phono Cables: The BEST you can buy - try a studio cable specialist
Desk (although you can do without this and plug direct into card if you don't produce)
Soundcard: MOTU 828 MkII
Editor/Recorder: Soundforge
Now, once you have the PERFECT chain in place, it's all about levels. make sure at every point in the chain, the level is nice and hot to reduce noise. OK so on your DJ Mixer, make sure levels are at 0. On the Desk, again make sure everything peaks at 0.
Then check the input levels in Soundforge. Chances are they will be clipping, as a 0db analog signal from the analog Desk, gives you no chance of overshoots in the digital domain. OK, so pull the input level down, via the soundcard settings, so the signal peaks at like -2 db (this makes sure you dont clip if there are pops or glitches on the record)...
OK so hit record and let's get it into the computer!
Once it's in you can do all sorts of weird and wonderful tricks via tape plugins to make it sound a little more analog. I actually used to master everything I recorded in, to a certain sound, so that all my records would sound similar when I played a digital set, but these days I just can't be arsed/haven't got the time (ps if you do this, it's easy to make mistakes if you don't know the art of mastering entirely!)
You can now save as WAV or MP3. I used to save everything as WAV but tbh if you save the wav as 320 Kbps MP3, it's alot smaller and the difference in quality is practically impossible to tell.
OK well I hope that helps. The only thing then is to tag your files properly.
Good luck!
If you are running final scratch/similar avoid recording through a dj mixer, just use the inbuilt preamps in the unit itself. Nearly all dj mixers will colour your sound.
Keep your signal chain as short and clean as possible, use good needles, clean records and the latest mp3 codecs.
Wicked thread and all the info anyone could possibly need on this subject,has helped me no end.
just throw them all on the floor and take a photo of them with your phone.
is that digital enough?
only if you record it with the video recording function, then post it on youtubeQuote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
word!Quote:
Originally Posted by dan the acid man
from my own experience, the best rips i ever got are with my Numark TTX-1 deck that has a digital coaxial out and Groovemaster II needles. i run the coaxial right into my firewire soundcard's coaxial input, and there is no perceptible loss in quality. the signal also seems to be just below clipping at all times, which may be a function of some digital trickery. best i could have hoped for, and the tracks sound huge when played out. as another poster wrote, the chain needs to add as little "color" as possible to the rips, and also come in as hot as possible without clipping. somehow, i lucked out with this deck and it did everything using a single cable and no mixer. i still have the deck around just for ripping.
unfortunately, i only ripped about 1/2 of my collection that way - the rest were done earlier, using a mediocre integrated soundcard's analogue input. deffo a step down, but the same deck was used and it has line-level analogue output that still does a good job.
also, i experimented with noise and click/pop removal, and (in some cases) got awesome results. Cooledit has noise reduction and click/pop filters built in, and you can fiddle with the settings to see what works for you. some old, worn Goa records came out sounding incredible, but sparser music had audible artifacts that ruined the deal.
also, as Mark wrote, clean the records first. i have one of those brush/fluid systems that you hold on the record while it spins. at one point, i had a soldering bulb that i used to blow off any visible fibers that remained after the brush. yes, i was obsessed. but the beautiful result was worth it.
now if you're REALLY looking for the best quality, sometimes old Acid compilation CDs are ****ing treasure troves of unmixed tunes. think of it this way - you're ripping your own vinyl, which may be 15 years old (or more) and has been played many times. when these old CDs (ie Sound of Acid Core - http://www.discogs.com/release/145426) were made, the records or DATs they used for the CDs were of nearly perfect quality. so they were basically set in stone, and never degraded. many of the tracks i've found this way sound much better than the vinyl releases due to lack of wear, direct lineage, not being affected by the vinyl's master/cut/surface noise, etc.. well worth having these CDs now that were in the digital age.
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives...s_wonders.html
i've found it!
the ultimate!
i bet that baby lacks pitch control! and you sure as shit can't scratch. such a funny idea in some ways, but i still want two.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
I use a similar chain that works well for me:
-Shure M97 HiFi Needle on Technics 1210
-Cambridge Audio 640P Phono Preamp (no DJ mixer)
-RME Multiface Soundcard
-Samplitude recording software
playing the resulting digital copy from CDR actually sounded better in clubs cause it avoided the bad needles/ inferior preamp stage, going straight to a line level channel.
and this wont do any harm to them ?Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Indeed. I don't see what the issue is here, frankly ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Maybe your leads are shit ?
I mean, whatever you're recording into the PC should sound exactly the same as long as there's no problems in your signal chain.
I used to rip vinyl straight from my DJM into laptop (no external sound card) sounds fine to be honest.
Odd question.
LOL Henry... I mainly jumped into this forum so I could come with a similar "helpful" answer haha - you beat me to it ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
I was going to suggest maybe getting someone like TRON to do it.
i had a go at digitising some of my vinyl and thought **** this after about 3 hours so i've just bought all my good tracks on mp3 again.
they make specific needles for recording vinyl to digital, check out ortofon arkiv for example: "reference-quality stylus & cartridge for professional/recording use, ideal for recording vinyl to digital"
http://www.juno.co.uk/products/273587-01.htm
As long as you make sure you use boiling water it'll be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyHard
(kills the bacteria which cause static)
Err ... won't boiling water warp the records? :eek:
Nah, as long as it's freshly boiled it'll be fine. Best thing is to get a BIG pot of boiling water, keep it on the heat and just drop all the vinyl into it.
BTW any old setup will *not* result in quality sound! some soundcards will have a lot of noise, while some will be cleaner. that alone is reason enough to seek better ripping gear. you really want to start with the best recording you can afford, since that may be the one you're stuck with going forward. processing the tunes from a mediocre rig can only do so much for them.
just comparing my integrated soundcard rips to my coaxial-->external card rips tells me all i need to know.
i guess it depends on how much of an audio whore you are...
chuck a couple of onions in there and some fresh limesQuote:
Originally Posted by JamieBall
they'll come out good as new