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I have decided to build rather than buy speakers for studio work. This way I have ful control mover my environment and have something built to my own specifications.
question is: Does any one know of where I can get cabinet plans online (free preferably) and wiring plans? I know basically how to wire them up, but I like to go by the book you know.
Cheeeaaaaaaarrrsss!
I had a chat with Dom about this. Dom ran Pure Filth for a very long time, and built the majority of the soundsystem himself. He also builds speakers for other people. He's very clued up on this sort of thing.
His general advice was that if you're building PA then it's worth building the speakers yourself as you can achieve similar results to the manufacturers. Soundsystems are rarely mass produced and if you're prepared to do a bit of learning you can save yourself some coinage by doing it yourself.
However, if you're building small speakers for home / studio listening then you're unlikely to beat the manufacturers. Professionally built Hi-Fi speakers and monitors have a lot of high quality R&D behind them which you can't possibly hope to emulate. Plus you won't have the economies of scale that a manufacturer has.
[Waits with baited breath for Dom to show up and say that I'm talking out of my arse]
Yeah, some of the guys I used to run our rig with now build soundsystems professionally, however for studio nearfiled monitoring you are playing a different game.
There is less precision involved with soundsystems.
Unless you are an accomplished accoustic engineer there is simply no way you are ever going to build anything worth even pissing in for studio use.
The most important thing to spend your dosh on in the studio is your nearfields. The sound making device.
Save up, buy the best you can for your money, don`t be a cheapskate.
Good monitors will last you for life.
What are your specifications? I`d have thought the ONLY primary specification for a studio monitor is to have the best and most accurate, level sound reproduction possible for your money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
To be honest I'm testing myself more than anything. It isn't a cost issue that stops me from wanting to buy monitors, the parts for building my own will cost a pretty bit of cash.
Thing with me is, I like to build and make things.
My specifications, meaning what I want out of speakers is absolute clarity. Not an ounce of muddiness if you get me? I want perfection. :lol:
I want to build the speakers out of proper timber and not chip board. I know a furniture maker who will give me the wood (a favour for the furniture spraying I did for no money). So I need to find out which type of timber has the best acoustic qualities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
I see what you're saying mate, but with a nice bit of cash and enough research I think I can do better. God I sound arrogant- but Im not! :lol:
A very ambitous project matey! One idea would be to buy a set of high quality monitors and then cellotape a Danny Black sticker over the logo's :lol:
Seriously though, good luck mate ;)
:lol: good idea!! cheers mate.
spoke to a few rig lads about this last night and their advise was to buy a 2nd hand pair of high end monitors that are ****ed. that way you get them cheap and can learn whats inside them while at the same time research the best upgrades for the new parts.
you have to remember that casing design is a big part of the overall design. companies like mackie/adam etc spend stupid amounts on design already so at the very least, if you bought a fuked pair, you'd have a pro casing.. which is a good start.
Fair play man - I admire your enthusiasm, and I'm sure you'll have fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
Let us know how you get on.
Bigtime! I will post up the plans for both the cabinets and the electronics and of course prices and the where I buy the components.Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
I love speakers, I have been collecting and building them since the age of 12* when I got my first hand me down JVC stereo and 70watt speakers. Goodtimes! Whatever way it turns out, I will have fun! :-)
*nowt hardcore, I wasn't a child genius. I was a stoner who liked bass.
Mmmmm, speaker pr0n.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
Crazy behaviour.
It`s good to build your own things, but do you even have the equipment or know how to test what you havemade accurately.
Do you have a treated sound room to then test and possibly retune the cabinets you have made?
Microtuning of ports is notoriously difficult (that is if you decide on open cabinet design), and no offence, you aren`t even yet a pro level producer of the standard that would be required to understand the full process involved in making a flat response monitor.
There is littl epoint in fecking around with something as importnat as nearfield monitoring.
As an interesting side project it might be nice to spend a few years dicking around with monitor design, but to try to make something fully usefull for the studio in one go with no high end monitor design/manufacture/testing experience is a bit of a folly.
If you are dead serious it might be worth taking a 2 year course in accoustic design. There is a producer I know, Ahkoo, who used to build hifi speakers commercially and who did this course, who I could put you in touch with, she might be able to advise you, but then, even she uses professionally made studio monitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
The only way I will learn is trial and error, it is as simple as that. Sure I could take classes but it would be a waste to be honest. I can literally only learn if I try it myself. I know that sounds strange, but I learn by trail and error and lots and lots of anally retentive reading.
@Baz, good call mate. The house is full of speakers broken and working so I have noted the designs and put down some rough drawings.
Tis going to be interesting and something to keep me occupied for a while.
Ye's are probably reading this and thinking "what a pleb" :lol: I probably am, but I have to do it.
Cheers for the feedback lads. :-) If it is a success I will post the designs for ye and some nude pics of me getting my hump on with the speakers.
good project... although i can see what Laugh is getting at.. these are going to be your final point of reference, before your ears, so ideally, you would want them to be as decisive as possible. however, u do stand to learn alot in the process. might be best to do as much reading/learning as possible before u start the trial and error.
im starting to build one of these :)
http://www.julienbayle.net/diy/LiveI...onomeClone.jpg
is that the monome?
read about it in SOS this month
Tenori-on?
@dannyblack - you go for it man, trial and error is the best way...along with healthy research of course. Even if you dont end up with a great speaker you'll end up with knowledge, and that is of amazing value.
You can actually buy speaker design software, where you enter parameters such as ampage, frequency response, porting, cone size etc and it will give you a number of options and then schematics.
I tried this years ago, before I discovered just how much research goes into nearfiled design.
Ended up with some good hifi speakers though.
That`s why I recommend accoustic design. It`s not something you can just "pick up". It`s not like building a table out of some bits of wood, or an average ported speaker box, you are actually dealing with some very complex physics, air/sound pressure/frequency to power ratios. Advanced baffling techniques, material properties, wave-guiding (modern waveguides are the product of decades of research, so you will inevitably have to purchase the waveguides [for around £100 and up a pair] as to make your own would involve getting hold of copyrighted and patented designs (costly/impossible), and also some kind of plastic moulding system).
If anyone could do it, anyone would be doing it.
It depends on your commitments.
You could spend 3-4 years trying to build the perfect nearfield. And hence lost 3-4 years of production time (unless you have decent nearfields already)
OR
Buy some proper nearfields, made and designed by a team of qualified accoustic engineers with years of experience under their belt, and manufactured to very exacting standards.
However, some useful websites to hep you on your way
http://www.partsexpress.com/speakers...TOKEN=52814673
Useful quote from speakerplans
Quote:
MDF: Material of choice for the DIYer. Heavy, fairly easy to work with, and better characteristics than hard wood in term of resonance. Depending where you're from, the cost for the MDF (medium density fiberboard) can be between 12-40 bucks, and can vary with your cabinet design. The thicker the better. 3/4 inch is widely available here, so I often double it up for 1 1/2 inch width. However, this stuff is MESSY. Its made from compressed sawdust, so its a good idea to work in a well ventilated area. And I STRONGLY suggest wearing a painters mask. It helps a lot. Also, its not a bad idea to have carbide bits, and a few of them for each tool. MDF is extremely hard, and wears bits down like none other.
Tools: Basically a must have: A router (though a dremel or Roto-zip with router attachment can be substituted), a table saw (unless you dont like straight cuts), plenty of clamps, and a drill or drill press. Again, carbide bits and replacement bits are strongly suggested to have on hand.
Putting it all together: There is some debate in this area. For attaching the driver, t-nuts and threaded screws seem to be the way to go. For laminating boards together, any strong wood glue or Liquid Nails will do, although I like to use "Rue glue". I get this from a nearby woodworking company. It dries slightly rubbery, giving it excellent damping, but once it dries, you're more likely to rip the face off of the MDF than you are to break the bond. If you are going to use screws to hold it together, I suggest drywall screws. They have a bigger thread, so they grip the MDF better. All vented cabinets must be sealed very well in all areas except the port. You can use your choice of materials for this, although I and many others use silicon caulk. Its a good idea to let this dry first, because the fumes can damage the driver. Also, you need to line the inside of the cabinet. A heavy felt can be used, but I prefer to use acoustic foam (the egg-crate stuff). It helps that I get this extremely dense foam for free from "Hi-Tech Packaging"; a company who my father, a UPS man delivers to.
Also, if you want to keep the cabinet from resonating, you're going to have to brace it, and the bracing mustn`t effect the wave guide or cause standing waves within the box . Be sure to compensate for all bracing when calculating the final volume.
Port tubes can be made of PVC, or there are several online sources to find them, for a neater look, and not much money. Now, we get to the shape...
If you want to keep things simple, you can make a box. Is this the best enclosure? In my opinion, no. Whenever you have a right angle, you have standing waves, and this we want to avoid. I can point you to a few pyramidal designs online, similar to the Wilson WATT appearance. For a small monitor speaker, I'd point you in the pyramid direction. If you have no woodworking skill or know how whatsoever, then come back and let us know, and we'll continue this further...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...php?forumid=54Quote:
Sensitivity, I believe, is almost always measured by itself, primarily because different boxes change the sensitivity (horns for example). The industry standard is to present an 8-ohm speaker with a 1 watt (2.83 volts) input signal and measure its output in an anechoic chamber with a microphone at a one-meter distance.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum....php?forumid=6
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=126586
Here is a website where you can purchase the plans or kits to make a pretty good monitor/decent hifi
based on the Ai ES10 monitor/speaker.
It`s a pretty good design, based on a pretty good speaker and has pretty good reviews, however I`m not really sure it rates up to a decent nearfield standard. It might match the same performance as a low cost nearfield monitor, such as a M-Audio nearfield.
http://www.gedlee.com/Summa.htm
another link to a high spec, well rated audiophile speaker, although again, I don`t think it is nearfield standard judging by the discussions about mid range performance
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/Ariel.html
more stuff
http://www.bobhodas.com/pub1.html
Personally I think the best success you will have is to use full range single driver based designs.
Audio Nirvana speakers are amazing full range drivers. Dr Vogts speakers have been used as monitors in high end studios for a long time.
He has stopped manufacturing complete setups now, as his driver sales alone are making him lots of money, however, he gives the cabinet designs awaw for free with the purchase of the drivers.
This will be your best bet, you`ll be able to build your own studio standard (in design anyway) monitors, but won`t have to go through years and years of R&D to come up with anything worthwhile.
Pricing looks like it will be about the same as buying mid range monitors, but it might be more satisfying
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html
I`ve heard some of the original built monitors by Vogt at Angel Studios in london, they were luvverly, although they were mid field, rather than nearfield, but there are designs there for nearfield speakers.
Another good general guide about studio monitoring
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun0...s/monitors.asp
Some great designs here,
Some of the performance curves look reasonable (although performance curves alone, don`t really tell you the whole story)
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655
That`ll do ya
Good luck
There's some excellent links and tips in there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
wowzer!! bloody hell mate, cheers!!!
i have access to a vacuum former and fibre glass so scoops etc is going to be the really fun part. although, i think this project is starting to evolve a little into a rig rather than monitors :lol:
im gettng ahead of myself here i think... monitors first- see what happens after that.
thanks lads, you all rock.
@john, whhats that?
I've been fairly curious quite how much you can mask the inherent weaknesses of a speaker or a room with an EQ curve. Steve rated the JBLs from the rooftops at how much difference they made.
But whats stopping you taking a midrange hifi cabinet, and just tweaking it into a machine of precision excellence through the simple overlaying of a compensatinv EQ setting?
I looked at soundsystem design for ages. Building big rig speakers isn't that difficult if you are a half decent cabinet maker and can follow insructions.
This guy is dead good - Rog Mogale:
http://www.speakerplans.com
Some lovely plans for big PA speakers. Mate of ours down in brighton has loads of "loony bins" and they siiiiiing. Beautiful precise warm bass, just a joy to listen to. Rate them much higher than F1 stuff personally. More character and less fussy.
There's probably some advantages of producing on a well set up engineered PA rig. You'll no doubt make tracks that tick all the boxes in a club, but might lack the detail you need to provide for the headphone listening crew.
Good luck anyways mate, you've set yourself a real challenge and sure you'll have fun and learn a stinkload.
Most Room Correction algorhythms deal with standing waves, and generally the cut (or at least hopefully, unless your room is ****ed) is subtle and at one point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
Other stuff deals with stereo balance and slapback etc
As a whole, RMC measuring and compensating for the room, not the speaker.
So the speaker still needs to be matched to the Program, or assumed to be a flat response speaker.
If you are building or ending up with a woeful speaker and box, that requires all sorts of EQ curving at mid and high frequencies, then you have earned an epic fail.
There isn`t any room correction that will compensate that much, and also, the more EQ you add to any signal, the more you are effectively adding distortion.
So you really don`t want to be adding EQ to the more delicate frequencies.
This shows exactly one of the many many intricacies of studio monitor design.
Making a rig is much much easier, unless you are looking at the real cutting edge stuff like The new Court Accoustics System, or the New Void System.
Speakerplans is a great place for soundsystem plans, and although fiddly in some places building a rig requires a lot less accuracy than nearfields.
Unless of course, you wanna make a real super beeauty of a beast of a rig.
Danny
have a look at this
http://www.sonicspot.com/boxplot/boxplot.html
it may help :)