Techno's in serious trouble... ( 1

What would you say if I said...



'Techno is losing it's edge and becoming part of what it so desperately tries not to be. Half the productions that are being made are totally unimaginative, sound the same and most of the people involved in techno are so far up their own arse that they lost in their own dog sh*t. Distributors like Prime (who run labels such as Primate, Primevil etc) are not interested in pushing musical boundaries, they're just interested in what sells. Simply check out the sales notes for certain Prime releases and they seem to be happy about the fact that Judge Jules and Fergie are supporting techno. If we're not careful we're going to lose underground techno as it merges with the mass of Radio 1 crap that comes under the general heading 'dance music'. Once techno merges with commercialism we might as well forget it.'



It's something that is spinning around in my head after a chat with one of the UK's leading techno producers... Let me know what you all think...

I agree with it totally, and i have been saying this to people for ages who choose not to listen.

i ain having it. so prime pushes out some boring crap at times and the general public is dumb enough to eat up whatever crap fergie et al are playing this week. someone mentioned to me that he thought beyer's new stuff is dull and that it was over for the swedish scene. i then saw devilfish play a few weeks ago and he was great. sure there's lots of new garbage being sold but there's tons of new releases that are also great.



hardcore will never die

I agree with krakpot.... yea it's annoying to see it happen but it happens in most things whether it be music television movies or whatever.... a good thing is always exploited by others for a profit... the only consolation is that there is always new music on the horizon and that you will always be ahead of the game!

i agree that T is asociating more&more with mainstream dance music, i had some thoughts about that too. but in my opinion this comercialization will lead to extreme revolution among the real Techno heads, breaking rhythm to unimaginable, creating sound sicker then ever. every action has it`s own reaction.

i believe that T is the primal music, music that is with us since our consciousness developed and it will be the last music.

it will always be around somewhere, whether in dance form or not.

another thing - about 80% procent of "techno" releases i wouldn`t clasify as Techno at all. It`s just the twisted perception of it in the public eyes that makes ppl think Techno is so popular.

saying that the type of techno i like would never become commercial, couldn`t see banging surgeon & glenn wilson tracks being played by judge jules etc, neither could i see a rue east track or a shufflemaster track being played in godskitchen.



As for the swedish scene being over, no way....devil fish are excellent and continue to produce some of the best techno around as does beyer & henrik b etc.

well, you obviously don't listen to j.jules on r1. as an example, he played an Ignitian Technitian/Player track the other week. i listen to his shows as 'research' in the car quite alot. don't ask me why because i end up getting so mad i wanna punch the radio. but yes, he's throws down sims/gaetano/carola on a regular basis.

jesus! didn`t know it had got that bad!!, that`s not good news... yeah i was listening to a hard house tape in a mates think it was andy farley & he played marco bailey - ipanema & another tune i recognised by cristian varela... i was fuming!, my mate didn`t understand why it bothered me though.

yes mate, this is getting beyond a joke and it really has to be addressed. there are people in this for the right reasons and there are people in this for the wrong reasons. but at the end of the day, joe public isn't going to care. they're going to hear techno played by the goons who don't understand it and think that that is what it's all about.



i think, as someone mentioned earlier, there's going to be a huge backlash from the underground movement. and i'm convinced this is going to happen soon.



but think about it. good techno productions that the underground are passionate about are now being played commercially in the UK. so FFW a few months and where does the underground look for inspiration if the underground is commercial? ermm...



and i think this could kill techno as we know it - as we all look for something else. but seriously what else is there? commercial dance music is at such a point now that as soon as it's seeing something underground, it's raping it. so what is there?



... perhaps it'll be something that isn't dance music as we know it. it's time for change. a revolution is surely about to happen? but has technology/ internet/ communication got to such a point that underground music cannot survive like it used to? ie any underground is dead before it's even started??

information overload?




Edited by: markeg3000 at: 12/3/02 11:34:20 pm

I dont think its directly all of technos fault. The other genres have been getting quite stagnant for a long time now, and people are trying to grab at whatever last bit they can to hold peoples attention, and some of those people are turning to techno to get it.



And as this happens, this is when the same old rehashed stuff starts coming out, because its being grabbed up by the people that normally dont go near it, and hear one thing, and want the next 10 things to sound just like it



Techno is going to have to change, and like everyone has mentioned, it is changing around it, and its going to have to go back a little more underground.



Popularity is a very dangerous thing though, as it feeds peoples egos, and diminishes the creative curve at the same time





Mike


You go in hard, and you go in fast.

the way it is going then i wouldn`t be suprised if we saw a techno track hit the charts!



of all producers i don`t like the way Umek is going, all his recent productions are all cheesey as hell & sound like they were produced in a few mins, nothing original & they all sound the same....shame really as Umek used to be an excellent producer a few years back

I'll have to agree with everyones comments above, its quite scary what is happening to our techno. What do we do to keep it out of the hands of commercially uneducated djs/distributors?

F**K Prime, I can assure you that they can push their vinyls on the market but not one of their releases will be in this djs crate!!!

As upsetting as it may be to hear someone like Judge Jules playing our beloved & sacred sounds, what are you really supposed to do?



He tried to claim trance as his own when guys like M-Zone (and Mark EG) were doing all the dirty work.



Perhaps I'm missing the point here, but don't you think its only a matter of time before he moves on to something else?



Don't things like this tend to go in cycles?



In the longrun, Joe-Public is still gonna want that element of cheese in his tunes... And as long as everyone keeps striving to produce tunes as they are, I really think people like Jules are gonna latch their slimy claws into something else....



I predict it will all come to an end after you hear Judge Jules' wife singing over some Pounding Grooves style beats and it fails miserabley.



I personally believe in my heart that hard techno will never be friendly enough to truly become commercial as trance has.



-JOHNNY

Mark, you're a fuc*ing legend for speaking your mind like this...much respect to you!



What your talking about makes me sick...That's why I like supporting undergroundish labels, like Decomplex Audio, Compressed, Bound and your stuff. I still rate Burkat as one hell of a producer, and hasn't Lars learnt and thing or two from him!

revolution is imanent, or better to say EVOLUTION.

major part of publicity can listen to this new T simply cause of the fact that isn't Techno as i stated before. it sounds so clear and soft, it's not inovative at all, and T is about inovation. majority can not get the real T cause they fear to face the cruelty truth which it talks about...



......screw the roses, send me the thorns.......

JJ needs a serious beating. someone get me my nail gun.

"someone get me my nail gun. "



that's my line @#%$. you scare me. wasn't that like 3 years ago?!

haha.



could be. i'll let you pull the trigger ok?

and can I stick razor blades in his eyes whilst you do it?

Mark I got told that you & julesy were best mates, and you always get together to discuss the newest tiesto tracks

RIGHT - OUTSIDE NOW.



hehehehehehhehe

lol

HOW DARE YOU ALL DOUBT ME!! I AM THE FUTURE OF TECHNO!!!, YOU WOULDN`T BE DOING ANY OF THE NASTY STUFF THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED TO ME!! MY WIFE AMANDA (SHE WAS ANGELIC YA KNOW!) WILL KICK THE @#%$ OUT OF YOU & MY BEZZY MATE DAVE PEARCE WILL SUFFOCATE YOU WITH ONE OF HIS BASEBALL CAPS, AFTER HE ROLLS YOU ANOTHER FAT ONE!



ALL YOU DOUBTERS NEED TO SEE ME IN ACTION, WATCH IN AWE AS I MIX THE FIRST 4 BARS OF TUNE INTO EACH OTHER... WATCH IN DELIGHT AS I MIX UP POP MUSIC, CHEESEY CHART TRANCE & BANGING TECHNO AND GET THOUSANDS FOR IT.



YOU LOT ARE JUST JEALOUS BECAUSE YOU DON`T LOOK LIKE A TWAT IN TIGHT VESTS & YOUR GLASSES AREN`T AS GOOD AS MINE!!



FOR F*CKS SAKE I HAVE A RADIO1 SHOW, THIS OBVIOUSLY MAKES ME THE BEST DJ IN THE WORLD!
Edited by: judge jules1965 at: 12/5/02 12:17:50 am

you can suck my dick

My 2 cents..



I really don't care what this or that dodggy geezer plays!!

I play what I feel like, I don't care if it is techno (although I think it is 100%).... Fads come and go...

If it is commercial than just fine, maybe we can finally do what we like and get a little bit of $$ as well lol :P

honestly, what bothers me is that Mark is absolutely right about prime and so many other dist., in fact I said something similar on another topic... Now it's all about sounding like this or that producer, or u r out... but fear now soon other dist. will start gaining ground just like prime in the past when it started supporting stuff no other distr. wanted...

JJ and others alike play what they thing is Koewl and easy... Prime says this is cutting edge, so they believe it!!

I have loads of respect 4 bayer, carola, gaetek, and the likes of' em but I've never bought any 12" just because it was produced by X or Y... either I like the tracks or I don't, so when they do good (4 my personal tastes) I play it... Right now I don't think I play that many records from these guys, cause all releases have the same sound so I kinda grew out of it...



But it really fuc**** 2 seem the key players of distrib. all forgetting how they started... I had a label with Integrale and u really notice what they want 2 push and what they don't even bother 2 try and get out there..



VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!



Z

LISTEN TO MY SHOW ON SATURDAY ON RADIO 1 & THEN TELL ME I AM NOT THE BEST TECHNO DJ IN THE WORLD!



WHO IS THIS ADAM BEYER EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT ON HERE??, SORRY I HAVE NO INTEREST IN TECHNO & DON`T FOLLOW IT, I JUST PLAY THE TUNES THAT GET SENT TO ME BY LARGE MONEY GRABBING DISTRUBUTION COMPANIES TO LOOK COOL & HIP.
Edited by: judge jules1965 at: 12/5/02 12:22:21 am

DON`T YOU ALL THINK I LOOK COOL AS FECK!

YOU KNOW YOU ALL WANT TO BE ME!

just giving this topic a push onto the front page. disregard

Hello my name is Stefen and I am living in New Jersey, a small town out of NYC. I frequent the local scene and help promote for TronicTreatment. A few friends of mine sent me a link and i found an interest in the subject at hand.


I believe that everything travels in cycles. Everything has a peak point, a neutral point, a decline, and then travels back down the cycle to a restart point. Sort of like a wave pattern. Well Techno has traveled its course also. Techno had its beggings in the late 80's early 90's. Then progressed steadily with the production of drum machines and reached its peak point in the 90's. Current times have shown a significant decline in advances of the music. This patter is just the natural progression of things. Its the foward movement that keeps Techno from becoming static.

What does it matter that people like Judge Jules play these records?

Techno is repetitive as ****, do you actually think it will ever get big? Get real. It's a fad that they'll soon leave behind. The club tracks of techno shouldn't mean that the more underground sounding material (mulero, wunsch, etc.) will suck too.

I'll support and play whatever I think sounds good, I don't care if the name is Marco Carola or Regis.

What is not good for techno these days is this cookie cutter techno where all it is is bang bang bang bang. The "Heroes" sound comes to mind. I really dug, but I realize there's no creativity to it and its good for a few rounds as a DJ tool.

I agree with parts of what you are saying.

Techno is a fad for some. And it will hopefully be a short lived fad among the masses that congregate around people like Mr. Jules, and the other sheep that have to be told whats good and whats not. And while it is a short term fling for these people, who will soon move onto whatever other people tell them is good next, it will be reptitive and boring where it is most public.

Its not saying that a track all of a sudden turns bad because Judge Jules starts playing it, and I dont think anyone else is saying that either. Its just a warning to those who actually appreciate it, that things are about to come to a major change. That its going to be taken and molded into something for the general population that cant appreciate anything past a month or so.

Maybe the reason some people turn out track upon track of the same sounding material is just to get as much as possible released in a short amount of time, Im not even going to pretend I understand anyone elses reasons for why they do things.


I do think as a whole, we are prone to being a little on the snobby side, looking down on others because we feel somewhat superior to them, and unfortunately that is sometimes because you know the person who all of a sudden says oh I love techno I cant get enough of it, is going to be onto the next big thing in a short while, and thats a little exasperating.

The reason why alot of this is currently pointed to people like Judge Jules, is because we all know that he doesnt give two tugs of a dead dogs dick about techno. He is just using whatever he can to further his own goals, which are significantly different that the ones that we seem to have.

I am a true beleiver in if it sounds good I dont care where its from, but during the period that its a fad, everything about it changes, and I think thats what everyone is somewhat concerned about.


Its always nice to see something you love go a little bit mainstream, but at the same time you have to be wary of what happens to anything that goes mainstream. The second its viewed as a fad, the marketing machine takes over. Look whats happened in music especially over the last 15-20 years. Im seeing tracks by for example Basement Jaxx, that would never see the light of day on television or even most radio ( inside north america ) 2 years ago, being used to sell people potato chips 10 times a day.

I think that should scare just about anyone.


Mike

SInner,
I do agree with most of what ya said but just like I posted on another thread.. I don't see anything wrong In somestuff going overboard, why because U r bringing new people 2 the scene, people that wouldn't otherwise give a 'damn about electronica... the guys u r build apon a product will expire shortly but at least some fresh meat will come 2 play and more people will want 2 look beyond the superficial... this is what already happens but on a much smaller scale...
Sometimes these new people even bring new views... if there is no renewel of people eventually all does off.
2 keep underground all u need is like u said to keep doing things by your own rules, with out expectations, with out wanting 2 fit any particular norm!!

My 2 cents!

Z

New people coming into for lack of a better word, our world, isnt necessarily a bad thing. It can bring people that might not have otherwise come in, and some of them walk away forever changed. I can think of where I used to be, before I found what truly sounded good to me, and can imagine I would have been quite upset to find myself not welcome by those that were there before me.

And that should never happen. People should never feel excluded from taking part in things, and alot of them welcomed with open arms.

What bothers me to no end, not brought on by people that cross over into the techno world from outside of it, its just the constant fear of popularity.

Maybe I run into it more being on the other side of the Atlantic, where thing run a little differently than in Europe.

I'm not worried about trance or any other group of people coming into techno. Im worried about whats happened after that fact. Im worried about that banging track that you loved out of someones set becoming a car commercial 6 months from now. Thats when things get out of hand.

For me its never the people that ruin anything. Its always the people who exist just to make money off of it. Im not even faulting the people who receive the money for it.

That, or the fact I havent slept all weekend is making me paranoid

I c what U mean but I firmly belive that underground lives 4ever... sure It's quite $$#$&# that some wanky geezer comes in from nowhere 2 cash in on the new thing and travels elsewhere (where the hype and $ is) next week, especially when U've been doing it all along 2 several year... but I guess that's the trade off...

Z

:x I definatley disagree with where this situation might go unless something is done about it! Commercialism is evil and greedy and cut-throut. It sucks dogsh*t. ^Thoughtless crap is greedy. Originality is everything! :x :twisted: :twisted:

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Originally Posted by Downwards

the way it is going then i wouldn`t be suprised if we saw a techno track hit the charts!



of all producers i don`t like the way Umek is going, all his recent productions are all cheesey as hell & sound like they were produced in a few mins, nothing original & they all sound the same....shame really as Umek used to be an excellent producer a few years back
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Totally agree with u...

When it comes down to records and what I play, i am with DJ Ze MigL on this one. I listen to a record that i get from a huge pile of records and without looking at the label and cover i will listen to the track. if i like it i buy it, if not it gets discarded.
what i buy isn't influenced by name,colour,producer,distribuer etc. techno may very well change and thats ok by me.
as for judge gouls... all i can say is that I herd him a couple of times :oops: in the back room @ cream in early 95. and he played techno. he was playing the same sort of records that coxy and co was playing. I roked to it as did 250 other tekno heads. but what he does now at radio 1 with his rep he can olny harm tekno but **** it if other dj's want to play records then who am i to tell them not to.

....then perhaps it's time!!! perhaps techno is in need of a MASSIVE shake-up???????

its exactly the same with drum n bass mark....
a year or 2 ago....shy fx released ''shake ur body''...it got to number 7 in the charts....and we all thought 'shit....here we go...we are ****ed now..its just gona be garage imitation after garage imitation....''
but dnb is still goin....stronger than b4....and the innovative producers still keep pushin through.....I think a major problem with techno is the lack of new producers really breaking through and doin their thing....
the only notable breakthrough id say in the last year for me has been amok...
otherwise its the same old same old....
I mean yeah....millsy is a legend...but people still wet their pants when they see his name on a flyer or when hes got a new release out....

compare techno to dnb...
in the last year alone in dnb we have had 6 notable producers break through..
clipz,hazard,baron,twisted individual,distorted minds,generation dub...
all with their own unique sound and style....
being given breaks by the likes of roni size,andy c,ss,hype....
major league players who realise that new talent has gotta come through and that they cant run the show forever....
the big players are bringin these guys through to secure the future of dnb
how often does this happen in techno??????????
hardly ever.............the amount of releases some guys have is ridiculous....and its impossible to make so many tunes and for them all to be good...
why dont they give other guys a chance!

my mind sez this: techno will survive but will some djz survive ?
know what i mean!
techno music will be Ok as long as there is some guy stuck in
his room banging some noises from his drum unit!
as for some judge j. or fergie shit(on other topic)...
**** with them...let them play techno...
they will get bored and move on...

jules is a bloodsucker always has been always will b.he just latches on 2 whatevr genre is doing or starting 2 do well 4 itself an tries 2 suck the life out of it.like sum1 said though,he'l soon get bored of it an go sumwhere else.

wow!!!! i missed this thread. but it just goes to show that all of you guys on this page are PROPER down with techno and well aware of what pop cheese and underground filth is. and also aware of all the finer shades inbetween. big up yo selves!!
mr mark eg deserves knighting for starting threads like this, becease we need to be aware of the potential drudgery we could be swamped with, and to make you aware that 1your purchases count!! 2you need to make the people around you aware OF THE REAL KILLER SHEEEET MAN!!!
my little suggestion is this: alas techno is quite functional so some muppets will pick up on it to make weak shit sound stomping. but i think the common thing that brings us together here runs deeper than even the records. techno to me encapsulated all the sickness and fuct upness my head was already telling me, but pressed onto vinyl. that WILL NEVER be commercialised because the results would be armageddon, but it is certainly prevalent in more things than techno.
i think techno will maybe eventually enter the charts (look at my sarcastic signature about technotronic, that is STILL what some people say when i mention techno...!?!?!?) but the thing that enters the charts will be the super cheesey,funky,accessable stuff imaginable. but the scale of sick records and amazing distributorsa surviving on 500copies per release of pure twisted robot noize.
we need to ignore the masses, let them stop distracting us fromDA REAL SHIT and take a look at the wealth of other, UTTER majestic carnage out there on vinyl that could NEVER make it into commerciality. they can have techno, but they'll never take MY music away.

this forum is ace by the way!!

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Originally Posted by Tony

this forum is ace by the way!!

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yes it is ! its the cyber technovile !
mark beeing the mayor...as we are the people on the "streets"...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djfurness

I think a major problem with techno is the lack of new producers really breaking through and doin their thing....
the only notable breakthrough id say in the last year for me has been amok...

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There isn't a lack of new talent.
There's a lack of people willing to put ego aside and let the changing of the guard occur, but there are few good people with a damn good heart out there encouraging us to keep on.

i had the wonderful experience (lol) of seeing jules and fergie on NYE for a few minutes.. not to worry though i didnt hear one techno record.. i sure wouldve liked to though. instead i was stuck in the dnb room with goldie, fresh and mr big bad bass themselves lemon d and dillinja...

in america we dont have to worry about techno dying - its been dead for years unless you live in the midwest like dustin - where there is actually some techno culture left (and lots of cow pastures too). the old guard in la (jon williams, dj hyperactive, barry weaver, guido/oracle prod, etc) has fallen off the map and now sell homes, wash dishes or play 80's and leave the parties up to the young'ins :( at least theres actually parties now.. with people! and some new labels coming up with la's favorites - palette, plug research, immigrant and cytrax! techno is defintely on the rise here, maybe its a necessary cycle...

oh trust me, it's dead here. :)

It's just that techno's leg is still twitching a tad after the death.

i think the only place in the states where techno is alive and well is new york. i don't know how christian does it, but he gets just about everyone to play at his club (rachmad, beyer, carola, hawtin, etc.) and us punters only have to pay a few bucks (though it used to be free) to get in. i try to go everytime i'm back there.

as for techno's impending commercial breakthrough, i don't believe it. if it can survive "good life" and technotronic, primate records will prove a flash in the pan. besides, even the poppy stuff is difficult for non-discerning ears to acclimate to.

but isn't prime done anyways? the rain makes it hard for us to get stories straight here in seattle.

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

but isn't prime done anyways? the rain makes it hard for us to get stories straight here in seattle.

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Haha, you're right on both counts. ;)
I've only played once in NYC but I've heard from numerous people that it isn't all that glorious there right now for techno either.

It's a joke.