Creating that techno sound

Whats up every1? Im a hardcore dj/producer from NYC and i been gettin in techno a lot lately (due to some dutch labels pressing techno on there b sides) i have studied every single piece of technoi can find from vinyl to cd..and i dont mean trance or hosue or whatever im mean str8 up techno with that wishy washy rolling effect that the drums and or percussion makes..and im literally pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to produce this effect...ive spoke with arron liberator and lenny dee on the subject matter and they ahd said to jsut use loops but i was liek Fck that i wanna make my own loops..then lenny told me to use a reverse gate on my kick drum..some one else told me to chop off the tail end of the kick and reverse it and tehn paste it back on or whatever..some1 else told me to stretch the kicks so they overlap one another eventually..this all seems to produce something close... what am i missing? can any1 help...i basically want that wishy washy rolling effect...that is is best as i can describe it...not the normal 4/4 BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM more of the techno-ish BOOM-DUDDA DUD BOOM (I already know how to do they boom tish kick high hat combo..hehe like i said i can produce hardcore =) so if any1 can help me id be very appriciative....i have seen people on here talk about compression ..but isnt that jsut to get the kick to be deeper..etc...and i have searched every page in this PRODUCTION section...and so far thsi is the best board for help to ..lots of people know what they are talkin about so pleaseeeee helppppppp..ty....jay

hey jay - glad to see you signed on to the boards -
im still trying to figure out all that stuff myself :?:

i was playing with reason last night..trying to figure out patterns by overlapping similar sounds in the redrum- however i think i need to work on my sounds more- im coming up with more harsh techno sounds (which i want) but i dont think they are good for that rolling sound - gotta fix me up some good bass/kiks - but i gotta learn how to make them all without bighting someone elses shit too much - (but bass is bass so it can only be so original)

share any info you come up with -

oh and you should come out to amityville on the 20th..im spinning some techno then ;) ;) ;)

hehe..it may also help if you give these guys some exanples of producers you are talking about..or specific tracks as well..

that woosh woosh techno sound is hard to get ...theres alot of woosh woosh in techno.. :lol:

lol... welcome m8,

I guess U really need some directions here so we can help out.. like mind just said giv' us some names of tracks/ producers!!

I'm guessing u want a compressor on a heavy bass with the kick sent to the Sidechain (key insert)....


Z

Z - there's no sidechaining as such in Reason - only in Fruity (and maybe Cubase....dunno there). I'll have to think about how it could be done with some tweaks. I guess it could be possible looking at the way Peff has created that new 24db filter in the new Reason article.

Link to the reason article?

Actually the techno "sound" I have the most trouble with it the percussion... that rolling wall of sound.

http://www.propellerheads.se/remote....ion=discover12

:lol:

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that rolling wall of sound.

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layering.

just layer heaps of drums ontop of each other, in a way that complements the arrangment.

LOL, easier said than done. What sort of layers do you use for the percussion?

load up a all redrum with just congas and other assorted percussion...

use the lil' random drumfor each of the sounds in turn... instant percussive madness.. add a touch of shuffle! ;)
:dance:



Sidechain... (I though u could do it with the new spider thingys!! sorry I'm not much of a reason user ... I haven't even touched the 2.5 yet!)
Maybe u can also do a cool trick that I use in cubase 2 sorta emulate it....

do a volume automation on the bass, so that yer bass sound dips a little with every kick... u'll probably have 2 use a huge zoom and a lot of copy pasting but should yeld some nice results with a very detailed control over the all thing!!! :love:




Z

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What sort of layers do you use for the percussion?

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about 4-5 different hihats, a bunch of short snare like sounds, a few clicky sounds, congas, and basically anything that sounds good when u preview it while your loop is playing. depends on the track really.

get a loop going in your sequencer and keep adding to it. a lot of the "sound" comes from compression and eq es well so tweak around.

really thank you all a lot..this really helped i was in between some of that shit here n there..u know close but no cigar..lol..im gunan try that volume thing on the kick..that is what i thought was happening but not sure how to do it in sounforge..what is the name of that effect in soundforge..i use fruity loops to..can i use one of those effects or soemthing? or maybe a plug in..thanks so much again..and you all may not know the producers i am in to becuase they are on hardcore labels..like THIRDMOVEMENT.NL (CHECK OUT PEEKY POUNDER and RUDE AWAKENING) really dirty distorted sounds..which i liek cuz im a gabber..but who knows/...if u really like hard angry techno..ull like this..ok thanks again..maybe some1 can help with this ? now...and then ill put u all in my debbt...hehe piece

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that rolling wall of sound.



layering.

just layer heaps of drums ontop of each other, in a way that complements the arrangment.

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ok this is what i thought it was..i was layering diff osunds in redrum but wasent getting what i want..i think i have to work on the kiks...do you reccomend using teh same kick and just alter it a slight bit for each layer??for that "rolling effect" - ?

different sounds 2 avoid phasing as much as possible (also different tones/ frequencies... Unless u like the fuzzing by phasing! ;) )


The volume trick is something that works best on the all sequence... i.e. bassline... basically in reason u right click in the volume for the subtractor (or whatever u r using 4 bass) the edit controller... draw away... little tight dips 4 each kick... redraw 'till u get the sound u r after!!

U can edit the channel fader for the bass channel on the mixer...

Z

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just layer heaps of drums ontop of each other, in a way that complements the arrangment.
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I dont use Reason any more but I used to just create drum loops as the guys outlined, distort them slightly , bounce the loop to a single wav, rex it, load it in again, cutout those 'muddy' frequencies around 300hz , knock on a lowpass filter and take out all the highs and repeat and create another loop with redrum or whatever over this.


also....

Add a small bit of reverb to the rexed loop...
make sure all your notes dont match exactly in velocity/lenght/time...
automate that filter slightly... blah blah blah :)

Do has the last post but load another copy of the total wav 2 the sampler, then use a low pass filter followed by a hpf so that u one hear a muffled bass sound.... instant continuous bassline... use the resonance at will ;)

Z

ok kool..thnx guys...i will play around with those reccomendations- i had the same idea with turning the pattern into a wave and reediting and throwing soem reverb and a filter on but i guess its jsut a matter of playing with it to get it right..im not to detailed on how to exactly work the effects - as far as settings go...but again this is suttin you really learn frompractice.. :cool:

yeah thanks gusy ima werk on this too..for now can any1 give me a basic step by step for fruity loops or soundforge on how to start off a flwo from there i can take it..but im still having trouble..thnkassssss

the secret to creating that techno sound is experimentation! your process in making tracks is what gives you YOUR techno sound. lotsa compression, maximizers and and a multiband compressor wouldnt hurt either though :)

i understand that but telling me to use compression doesnt exactly tell me wht and why it causes what effect..so i dont know what to acheive with compressing u know...ty..

i still dont know what effect you're talking about

That sound that techno style has..i guess..not just BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM its more like BOOM (SOMETHINg CAUSES IT TO GO INTO THE NEXT KICK)BOOM ...sorta sounds like the tail end is reversing givin the track more of a flow then just BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

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Originally Posted by tracatak

That sound that techno style has..i guess..not just BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM its more like BOOM (SOMETHINg CAUSES IT TO GO INTO THE NEXT KICK)BOOM ...sorta sounds like the tail end is reversing givin the track more of a flow then just BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

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You just answered your own question...

Also that isn't necesarily "the techno sound" its just something a few guys do. But yeah, you've answered your question. reverse a kick and play around with the pitch,decay and timing.

0ooh i thought that is what made techno "TECHNO" otehr wise isnt it hosue..lol..jk...but yeah i kinda got it going but still sounds like it needs like a little rmeo at begginging..ahh ihate this..lol..ty for all u rhelp

Techno is one big box with loads of sub-boxes, tick the box u prefer...

Bang the box :p


Z

a techno producer fom ny told me to add delay...adjust the wet n dry ..and it will give me that effect..i been trying this...sounds pretty good..gotta try more though...keep you all updated..

Yeah I've been playing around with adding a touch of delay on a lot of my percussion as well... not much though :)

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Originally Posted by jake

the secret to creating that techno sound is experimentation! your process in making tracks is what gives you YOUR techno sound

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:clap: :clap: :clap: Very well said, I was waiting for someone to say something like that that

techno is not about experimenting..... it's about looping yer favourite track and releasing it :evil: ...... ehehe jusk kiddin' of course...

use a reverse reverb efx...


Z

does that mean add reverb then reverse it? cuz i highlight certain parts of my kick or whichever sound like the tail end then add reverse then add reverb,,,not sure if thast the same thing as reverse reverb.,,im using sound forge if that helps....plus i think i am hearing jsut a normal kick with reverb and the sounds in the backgroudn are giving it that chugging sound..like

R---R---R---R--- R= A REVERSED SOUND (flows into one another)
k---k----k---k--- k= reg kick (flowing into one another)

well im gunan go try this idea now...lol.

i find pushing the release time & adding delay'reverb on hi end percussion all subgrouped then thru a compressor/limiter does it. i do that for all the hi end, then group the bassline & kicks (i always use at least 2) & then i group my synth hooks & whatever washes or vocal samples together giving me 3 groups which i then again compress and volume adjust until i'm happy. THEN i push the final out thru soemthing like an Ultramizer.

pumps it all together & keeps it cohesive. i dont like space between my sounds (i do try and spread things evenly across a wide frequency range so not to have sounds battling for prescense)

thats for harware, but i try to stick to a similair process with the pc work as well.

You have to make the basslines strong, continual and complimentary to the drums (ie a very clever arrangement).

Or......try removing the kickdrums from the track completely, and attempt to make it danceable and powerful enough without the kicks, then add them afterwards. This could take you up a few gears.

RB