what do you's guys do at the mastering process?
what program do you use?
what sort of plugins/process' do you recomend when doing the master?
any tips/suggestions/or a what you actually do would be well helpful :)
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what do you's guys do at the mastering process?
what program do you use?
what sort of plugins/process' do you recomend when doing the master?
any tips/suggestions/or a what you actually do would be well helpful :)
BUMP............
anyone? mon guys!! :)
I first go "out of the box" to a Studer G36 reel to reel, for tape warmth and compression.
Back into box, cleanup with Izotope RX.
EQ treatment with Liquid Mix (usually massive passive) or Har-Bal, depending on material.
Final limiting again depends on job, if using mid/side process then will use BX Digital and BX XL.
Or RND Mastering tools (Dynamizer, Detailer + Metering) and Slate Digital FG-X
Or Out into Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor.
The path depends entirely on material, genre, sound of mix, required final sound, individual track problems.
No real solid recommendations other than it is best to not master your own music, and if you do, then make all, or as many corrections as you can, in the mix. And mixdown.
Then...
Maybe if you need to, use something to colour your mix (ie virtual analog saturation) (possible EQ to correct for colouration artefacts you don`t like) then some very transparent compression, and same with limiting.
Don`t push anything too hard, don`t master on the same day you mix down, multiband isn`t necessarily better (all depends on material), especially if you don`t really know what you are doing.
Yeah, my process generally involves sending it to someone who knows more than me. Avoid mastering unless you really know what you're doing.
agreed! also, learn the difference between mastering and mixdown. mastering is just the final polish on a track. it's getting the right mixdown that's more important. you can polish a turd as much as you want, but it's still a turd. just a bit shiny-er.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
thanks mate, didnt think the process was this muchQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
what weve been taught in college is totall crap compared to this, I questioned what they told us but they assured me what they were teaching was "industry standard" stuff
obviously want to learn this stuff so im glad you've gave me an idea on the process that you do. Now to go back into college and get them heavy told with how to really master.
thanks for sharing the programs you use aswell, really help full!!
totally agree mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
lol yeah totally true manQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrick DSP
To folllow on from the mastering process, whats your process for your mixdown?
I know it will vary from track to track etc but is it a general rule to EQ and compress every sound?
The EQ I use the now which I find real easy to use is fab filter, been using (I think) pretty well as with certain sounds Ive been cutting out frequencies which have then made the sounds sit better within the mix
Sometimes I find it hard to boost certain frequencies because basically I dont know what I should be boosting
Anyone got tips/process/plugins they use to get a good mixdown.
Got a good tip from the horrorrist and that was to have your levels sitting half way and not have every thing at zero, stoped the peaking, made more space etc and you can always boost the track at the mastering process, but that tips pretty common sense.
Like the idea of making my tracks within ableton and then taking the track into pro tools to mixdown, also heard of ppl mastering in pro tools aswell
Again any help is hugely grateful guys :)
theres a world of misinformation out there and it seems you've already been fed some.Quote:
Originally Posted by ritaheed
keeping things "half way" on the meter is pure BS. internal mixing engines work at 32 bit float (protools hd is 48bit) so the chances of ever digitally clipping is an impossibility EXCEPT on the master fader which does need to be below 0db.
where digital clipping might occur is within plugins. you need to be very careful on certain plugins. but on the other hand some analog emulation plugins are designed to be driven hard (uad PLUGINS BEING A CASE IN POINT).
theres also a lot more to a mixthan just eq and compression. you need to understand how the music flows and how each element works with the other.
for a quality mix you could be looking at 20 hours work.
personally i think 80% of released techno is mixed appallingly with absolutly no consideration given to the bigger picture. yes it is important to have that kick eq'd perfectly but that needs to be done in context with everything else.
theres a reason why working engineers spend a long long time learning before they even touch a mix, and thats why we charge what we do.
as far as plugins go i would highly recommend slate digital, softube, UAD, waves analog emulations and soundtoys.
you really do get what you pay for and i would advise anyone to save the extra few quid and go with quality software/hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
The thing is I wanna learn the stuff your talking about, I wanna know how to EQ but taking everything else into context and how the other elements work with each other.
I tend to EQ a sound so it fits nicely within the mix, what should I be looking to do then?
A was basically told to lower all levels and use your soundcard volume to hear more of the mix, he was talking within ableton though?? dunno if that makes a difference, so aslong as your not peaking at the master then you can drive the volumes up of the individual sounds?
And whats the situation on limiters? Read articles about how limiting is terrible, no dynamics within the tracks etc so I then dont use them and then my tracks are alot lower than other peoples tracks
Well essentially the mastering process is corrective EQ, Dynamic Shaping (Compression) and Peak level Limiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by ritaheed
But there are many ways of going about this, depending on the material and the effect needed. (Multiband, Mid/Side, colouration, noise removal etc)
its kind of beyond the scope of what we can explain here. the best way is to buy a tutorial dvd on mixing, have a look for the tony shepard master class dvds. they're based on live music but learning to mix real guitars, bass, vocals and drums is the best way IMO. they're a lot busier in the mix and if you can mix them you'll pick up mixing samples and softsynths a lot quicker.Quote:
The thing is I wanna learn the stuff your talking about, I wanna know how to EQ but taking everything else into context and how the other elements work with each other.
I tend to EQ a sound so it fits nicely within the mix, what should I be looking to do then?
again thats not true. as far as im aware, abletons engine is 32bit. either way, once you go to 24bit (which is what ALL DAWs are minimum) its only the master and plugins that you need to worry about clipping.Quote:
A was basically told to lower all levels and use your soundcard volume to hear more of the mix, he was talking within ableton though?? dunno if that makes a difference, so aslong as your not peaking at the master then you can drive the volumes up of the individual sounds?
again you've been the victim of net information. limiters are an exceptionally powerful tools, i use them everyday... BUT like compressors, you need to understand how they work or you can balls everything up with them.Quote:
And whats the situation on limiters? Read articles about how limiting is terrible, no dynamics within the tracks etc so I then dont use them and then my tracks are alot lower than other peoples tracks
can you link us to the dvd mateQuote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
Crikey, big old can of worms there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ritaheed
Mixing is as much a philosophy as a technique, and opinions vary.
My personal philosophy is that the best kind of EQ at mixdown is no EQ.
All EQ is effectively "damaging" the sound in some way.
This follows the classical music method, where each instrument sits in it`s own place "in the mix".
Tubas and Trumbones play the lows, trumpets the mids, violins the highs, for example (vastly simplified).
How does this apply to techno?
Well it begins at composition.
As you are making your tune and adding elements, don`t add them willy-nilly, look at what you have in the mix already, and work out what space you have left in the mix.
If the bass is already covered by kick and bassline then look to add instruments (and melodic parts) that sit in the mid to upper areas.
Working like this means you have to apply less EQ to sounds, (or use it less harshly), so your mix ends up sounding more "natural".
Of course it is best to subtract with EQ rather than add, but you can also boost in some cases, just be careful and again, pay attention to the space left in the mix.
A lot of techno is overcrowded, too many ideas and sound in one mix.
Look at your sequencing, if you absolutely must have that final 5th percussion part at the end of the track, look at where it sits in the mix, and when it comes in maybe take out another instrument that sits in the same place.
Now another thing to look at is stereo field (and also mid/side placement, which is very interesting but a subject in itself). An orchestra is "mixed" by the type of instrument playing and also where they sit in respect to the conductor.
Use the stereo field to also create space in your mix, but don`t overdo your panning, techno is inevitably played on a mono soundsystem, or maybe stereo set up with little consideration for placement. So extreme stereo might well sound shite in the club.
Volume wise, on your channel faders it is generally good practice to keep your levels down, simply because add you add effects and more instruments you will naturally start to push levels up, so you want some "fader play" to allow easy mixing.
Be careful of the signal between plugins, as mentioned above, your DAW has massive headroom, but some plugins don`t, so be careful to check in and out levels of your plugins, and if you can`t adjust them, get a fader plugin between your vst`s. Sonalksis do a good free one.
No I wouldn`t say you use compression on every sound at all.
Use compression on things that you feel need it.
Compression changes the relationship and difference between the quiet and loud parts of whatever is run through it.
You can add or take away punch, increase loudness and control levels with it, but not all sounds need it.
If you don`t know what it does, don`t use it until you do as you can end up ruining a mix.
Limiting is basically extreme compression, so again, you really need to understand its application, and the reason why you are using it.
Its definitely potentially more damaging than standard compression so not for common use at all.
An average decent mixdown will sit at around -14 to -18 RMS before mastering so don`t worry if your mixes sound quiet, it`s to be expected.
If you need to bring them up just for personal use (ie no professional mastering)
Then a combination of a clean compressor and limiter shaving about 2-3db in gain reduction on each should give you a fairly decent final level without totally butchering the thing to ****.
I like your idea of paying attention to what space is left in the mix as i tend to add a sound if it sounds good for the track i.e many sounds lol and do not take into consideration if a sound is already covering that part of the mix i.e the bottom end
You talk about panning, I will tend to pan sounds all over the shot (trying to make space in the mix and not just randomly) so should I be looking to use stereo field rather than panning each individual sound? A mixture of both?
Is it wise to fully pan one sound to the left and another to the right?
Will this allow me to create depth within my track?
Yeah, I mean obviously add stuff that sounds good for the track, but always consider placement and room in the mix.
Panning.
Well again, no fixed rule, I`m into the Mid/Side methods (that have long time been tightly kept secretes in production circles) to place things within the stereo field rather than using left and right panning, with techno anyway, due to the nature of club soundsystems.
But yeah, pan wherever, extreme panning may well sound duff on a club rig though, so I wouldn't advise it.
another thing when im producing sounds from my synths (mad bleepy wonky sounds) Il eq the sound on its own and then when I go fit it into the mix it wont sound right (too much bottom end or whatever) so ive went back and eq'd it and on its own its doesnt sound all that great but when i then fit it into the mix it sounds alot better (ive taken out parts of the bottom end) is this common knowledge to do this (hope ye understand what I mean)
cool mate :) so what plugins would you advise for studio field/mid/side placement?Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
Well, ableton actually has mid/side built in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ritaheed
The stereo effect on the utility tool is actually a mid/side processor, ir doesn`t widen or narrow the stereo image it actually just alters the gain of the sides (more stereo) or mid (less stereo).
The 8EQ has Mid/side mode as well as left right mode too, so if you use ableton, then you are sorted right there.
Otherwise Brainworx BX Control is a great little plug that operates as a mid/side matrix.
thanks mate, a really appreciate your help :)
also mate would you use this on most of your sounds or in the actual mastering process?