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just curious what programs/equipment/techniques people use.
i tend to start with a sample of an analog kick in reason, add parametric eq, sub bass and compression in cubase. fool with all those things, and occassionally add a smidgen of small room reverb, but not so much that it gets muddy...
I try to do something different each time.
I use a variety of sounds to start. I mix analogue, soft synth, with samples of accoustic kicks for mid range punch.
I like attack particularly by waldorf.
Judisious use of eq, and compression, and sometimes some really savage limiting as well.
Anything goes really, the rules are there to be broken.
I've been wondering about this too, how to get the punchy kick drum. Do you send all sounds into one group channel, then?
I mainly use the exs24mkII (logic's sampler) and layer bunches of kick samples on top of each other and very the sample length/start/reverse/invert/etc. till i think i got something that works for the track.
I often use a synth set up for a bass sound with a bit of resonance, and on another track a very slight noise hat with quick attack, and on another a bit of mid range bump...then sample them together, add slight distortion/eq/compression/whatever and resample...whatever my fancy at the time.
the sky's the limit.
It can be fun to experiment with kick sounds, but when I sit down to write a loop, i can often get caught up in the details of sound when all I need to do is get caught up in writing the groove.
compression is very important. even a touch of it transforms a kick drum from flabby to tight and punchy. sometimes things sound sweeter if you cut some bottom mid 400-800hz (ish) then compress ...
maxbass from waves can make a very full and middy sound if you want that ... often a bit too much though you can also add the bottom octave with it too (use the dies bassum preset for a starter) ...
filtering or eqing out most of what's going on below about 30-60hz can often help too. probably best done before the compressor though if it sounds better the other way around then whatever ...
make sure your compressor release time is set such that the compressor returns to 0db gain reduction inbetween each kick otherwise your first kick drum will sound different from all the others ...
you probably don't need the gain reduction meters to be reading much more than 6-8db of cut or so normally otherwise the attack of the sound will be way in your face. (at 6db of reduction the attack will start about twice as loud as the rest of the kick sound ...)
also make sure you have the kick as audio in your track even if it starts off in a software sampler you probably want to record one and then move it around with the mouse till it's dead on the beat. check that the phase of the kick is good, that the inital peak is in the up direction (speaker cones slapping you in the face) and that it's a good attack, edit any crap off the start ...
if you are layering kick drums timing differences can make the sound completely different - if you are triggering from a sampler layered kicks will sound different every time - this will suck for repeative fast beats so either record loads of different ones and pick the one you like or record the layers seperately and sort them out on some audio tracks where there won't be any timing issues.
what's the deal with maxxbass? only comes in the native bundle? i've been using baxxpander and sub-bass by steinberg, though they leave something to be desired.
can you get maxxbass standalone?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil Rush
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
dunno about maxbass standalone, we've got the gold bundle and it came with it. does fantastic things to bass guitars too.
I use samples, along with the TBS DRM2 minisyncussion. Compression is the key to a punchy sound. Also, i've found that mastering using T-Racks give tracks a very nice full, punchy sound. YMMV though.
this is really well described basil. all i would really add to this is experiment sidechaining the kick and bass - also turn up parts of the freq on both kick and bass on a highq and mess to find a nice sitting point. i also like to have two potential sub bass lines from the start - can be really useful when getting confused about what sounds good ie flick between them both, sometimes i'll even end up using both together. oh and that waves soundshaper on the subs proves useful in cubase for me to mess with pitch on audio bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil Rush
so here's an ancillary question...
...what source do you guys all start with? lately i've been using a combination of microtonic kicks, 909 samples, and kicks made on reason's maelstrom.
I generally use anything BUT a 909. To try to get away from that sound.
Drumatic, Kawai, Attack, Accoustic stuff, or I make my own with soft synths.
analog kick with analog extreem compression.
and after that blow up the EQ, or just volume.
Little bit reverb and chorus on it....
i tend to layer kicks and mess with them as multisamples too. sometimes it just sounds terrible, but sometimes really big...
More and more I tend 2 go with a "standard" kick.. then when I got my basic groove, I'll flick thru a load of Kick I've collected over the years, then tweak'em a bit... the more I work the more I realise it's all in the mix/ balance/ eq/ comp!
my 2 cents,
Z
hmm to me the 909 kick has a lot of groove. not really punchy , but very very funky... i use it in tracks that dont need strong bassdrums
as a general fact, i never compress my bassdrums, that just sounds more "old school" .. then of course its harder to eq it so that it sounds good.. the main problem i have is that the bassddrums im doing totally lack of power on a weak sound system, because of the lack of compression
but the thing is : are techno tracks made to be played in parties and big soundsystems, or to be listened at home ??
def. big system :)
ehehheh
Z
Drop stuff and sample it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
Me latest tune has a big rubber plastic fish-clock (not mine) being dropped onto a glass table (not mine either) as a kick drum.
also. who the said every kick drum should be the same in your tunes.
I've done one with 200 different kick sounds as my 'kick'.
Kick stuff and sample it.
yeah, that's why i started this thread...to see how people think about this differently!Quote:
Originally Posted by massplanck
200 different kick sounds as your kick.
I would be interested in hearing that.
Sounds doubtful to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
nay. each kick as you go along.
Try using Native Instuments Battery and layer 3 or 4 kicks together and take different freq ranges from each and use Battery to change em up even more....
then add the compression and maybe a nice clicking sound (from some beefed up highend off a kick-- makes a "click" sound) off the top of each one to REALLY make the kick penetrate....
-j
Most of the time I use sampled kick drums which I compiled from sample CDs and then just layer them (most of the time there's only 2 or 3 kick drums) and mess with the envolopes, eq and compression.
Also, I recently had a play with that Albino softsynth from LinPlug and you can get some really fat sounding kicks from it... definitely worth checking out!
to get the punch.... I run it thru my sonic maximizer, then thru my 163x compressor
Ian and I punch each other in the chest while recording it. Then we compress and distort the blowz.
i recently started using a jomox airbase into a tfpro optical compressor, and it sounds waaay fat compaired to anything i've used before. i also run the kick into the sidechain of my bassline compressor, to auto-juggle the low end and keep the kick and bassline from clobbering each other with minimal eqing.
Already posted my description - not doing it again. :)
http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB...ic.php?t=16156
(careful, it's long!)
I sometimes drive an old ford transit van, at about 55mph into a large transport container, stored in a particularly large warehouse, fro extra reverb.
Really good for those big booming kicks :twisted: :twisted:
only to realise you forgot to turn your mic on :doh: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
dirty bass :clap:
Is there someone among you who tried the jomox Mbase 01 or other equipment fromfrom jomox?
have programmed some mean ass gabba kicks on the supernova.scott brown/nephyte etc type kick drums
usually i'll use a 909 kick(eq'd very bright) layered with a nice punchy sampled kick, open them up in a reason sampler and split them onto 2 or 3 seperate channels. one of the outputs goes through a malstrom synth (distortion & filter added), the next goes direct to the desk, where it receives the old reverb treatment (pre-fade) and the third is usually compressed and hevy eq'd. this gives me a lovely upfront techno kick. and the differant channels give me full control over whether i want a full on distortion kick or a nice acidy reverb job! :cool:
my kicks are from the airbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by dulash
I just did the following:
- Thight compression.
- A wide cut between 400 - 900Hz
- Gaining upwards.
Then you'll get a nice deep kick with a soft kind of distortion.
Similar like you hear in all the classic techno / acid music. :)
Sample it from records. :twisted:
With a good filter envelope and a parametric EQ you can turn anything into a kickdrum.
i use the fairchild and the 1176 compressor and the cambridge eq of the uad-1 studio pak :twisted: sometimes the l2
how many people use reverb on their kicks?
i've been trying out some plate reverb with very short decay. i can tell it's easy to go way wrong this way, but used in small doses it thickens without introducing too much mud.
I experimentated with using reverb on my kicks in the past, but I did't gave me the results I was after.. I never use verb on my kicks nowadays..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil G
a small bit of reverb on your kick can do wonders to fill out your sound. You dont want to much happening in the 300-500hz area though.g
i layer at least 2 kix & have them boosted quite far apart i the frequency range.
a real solid mid kick, then a sub kick that i try to keep tigh.
phasing can sometimes occur but it can be removed via eq