2 different delays?

for some reason i feel that when i hear techno DO WHAT IT DOES (aka that great LOOP/sound) i feel liek theres A and B and the A has one tight delay and the B has a looser delay...is that what makes the WISHY WASHY sound of techno (at least the techno i like =P)...i feel like compression isnt what im after at this point i feel like im not making that wishy washy shuffle beat trick thing correctly..what am i doing wrong..does only compressino make the loops do that/? or delay? **** im gunan slit my wrists.. been tryin different shit forever..HELP PLEASE...


sincerly THE KID WHO ONLY LOVES TEHCNO NOW

Post some audio examples and maybe we can help ;)

ok heres a link to a basic TECHNO track im trying learn how to write..

http://www.bangingtunes.com/play.asp...=4X4X20&Side=A

aany help would be cool...basically i neeed help gaetting that shuffle/wishy-washy effect going..


thankx

I think what u r looking 4 is the main sequence with some reverb, add lots of compression then use the kick 2 as a sidechain compressor 2 the rest of the sound... compress the master!


Z

If it's that slightly degraded sound just before the end of the break it's a bit reducion plug in although u might gett a similar sound with a radically tweeked flaging (try adding a very very short delay)!

Z

what do u mean MAIN SEQUENCE?

and

KICK 2 as in make sure i use two kicks?

Yep, I think mig is spot on.
You need a compressor over the main parts of a sequence, and sidechain that compressor to a kick.

For this kinda sound, I send all the stuff I want to "pump" to a separate bus, with the sidechained compressor in this bus. That way, you can get stuff to pump, but other sounds that you want to retain a dynamic with, can be untouched by the compression.

am isupposed to go

KICK _____ REVERSE_____ (REPEAT)



AKA


K-r- K-r- K-r- K-r -

Kick 2 is actually not heard in the mix, it's basically just 2 trigger the compressor on the main sequence (synths, perc., what ever u want).

Maybe u should have a a big and heavy bass with one long note every bar... have this as your Main, them use the kick2 (as a side chain) 2 heavily compress it with a quick attack and a slowish release..

also u can try the same with a copy of yer main kick detune it 2-4 notes, reverse it. now filter some of it's high freq. content, put 4 reverse kicks in the off-beat (same as yer hihats).. u can add 2 this experience if u use this reverse kick as yer MAIN and follow the recepie above... but the efect won't b so drastic, as the reverse kicks are playing on the off beat so they won't b compressed by the side chain all that much!


Hop this helps and clears it. :)


Z

Thanks DJ Ze MigL ..

But i must ask you some minor details,

OK so every bar is like this right ( K--- ) (meaning a bar is 4 little steps..i jsut add'd a kick in first step so it doesnt look likea bunch of dots..lol)???


Then you said to have a kick drum sidechaining that "1 bar-long" bass note ..so basically you hear the kick and the bass sorta hitting together (or however u describe what siechaining does..i read it a million times..hehe)

what am i giving the quick attack and slow release the KICK or the long bass note? or am i confused and they both attack quick and release slow...

also by detuning my main kick do u mean make it lower in pitch? you said to de tune it 2-4 notes?

ok im heading back to the drawing board..when i get somethign im proud of ill post it so u can rate it on how well it works and if im SPOT ON or not..as u mates say..thanks all

OK so every bar is like this right ( K--- ) (meaning a bar is 4 little steps..i jsut add'd a kick in first step so it doesnt look likea bunch of dots..lol)???


Then you said to have a kick drum sidechaining that "1 bar-long" bass note ..so basically you hear the kick and the bass sorta hitting together (or however u describe what siechaining does..i read it a million times..hehe)




ahaha that's the problem... think.. 1 bar = k---k---k---k---
so the bass would b exactly 16 step long (1 bar)!




what am i giving the quick attack and slow release the KICK or the long bass note? or am i confused and they both attack quick and release slow...




The bass cause the kick isn't actually compressed it's only used 2 trigger the compression on the bass!





also by detuning my main kick do u mean make it lower in pitch? you said to de tune it 2-4 notes?



yep lower pitch



ok im heading back to the drawing board..when i get somethign im proud of ill post it so u can rate it on how well it works and if im SPOT ON or not..as u mates say..thanks all


go practise! ;)


Z

when your using the second kick(the one you dont hear) as a trigger for the compressor via the sidechaining, is the 2nd kick a duplicate pattern copy of the first kick (the one you will hear) so it triggers the compressor at the sametime, everytime kick one actually hits?? (like a mirror image used to trigger teh compressor)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mindgame

when your using the second kick(the one you dont hear) as a trigger for the compressor via the sidechaining, is the 2nd kick a duplicate pattern copy of the first kick (the one you will hear) so it triggers the compressor at the sametime, everytime kick one actually hits?? (like a mirror image used to trigger teh compressor)

---

i usually have my sidechain kick play all the time, so that when the actual kick drops out during a breakdown my noise gate doesn't close on me and take the other sounds with it.

that's another way of going about it, but I was thinking comp and not noise gate. :)


Z

i've heard lots of records where the hi hats have a nice swing going as long as the kick is playing, but everytime the kick drops out the hats jump up in volume and become static. the first few times i heard it i thought it helped to build tension during the break, but after i knew that it was just the compressor easing off, well, i decided to try to keep my compressor under tight control and not make that sound. :)

very true. But in the audio realm U can compesate 4 that and if u listen 2 a lot os slovenian/ russian stuff, the way a certain sound reacts when U release the kick, showing a few more notes and stuff is like part of the sound. Also if u use small ratios and fast attack/ releases, the result ain't as drastic as u pointed out... still fair play 2 ya, for bringing that "nasty" side-effect 2 us....

I've also seen some people using a second comp/ limiter after the first (sidechainned 1)...


Z

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evil G

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mindgame

when your using the second kick(the one you dont hear) as a trigger for the compressor via the sidechaining, is the 2nd kick a duplicate pattern copy of the first kick (the one you will hear) so it triggers the compressor at the sametime, everytime kick one actually hits?? (like a mirror image used to trigger teh compressor)

---

i usually have my sidechain kick play all the time, so that when the actual kick drops out during a breakdown my noise gate doesn't close on me and take the other sounds with it.

---

what pattern do you use though to trigger it..a simple 1 2 3 4 pattern so its always just going on beat..or do you copy the same pattern of the one that you are compressing or gateing for the trigger and use that as your trigger pattern..

because say your doing a breakbeat style kick or sutitn that is off teh normal 1234..i would think you would want the same pattern to compress or gate otherwise it would be off..

i use the same pattern as what is actually heard, i just keep the silent one going through the breakdowns.

thats what i thought..ok kool..thnx

if u cant sidechain a compressor to another sound ie kick
but can use an eq (eg the ableton live compressor) do ya jus have to set the eq for the frequency of the kick?

any help would be great

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJ Ze MigL

If it's that slightly degraded sound just before the end of the break it's a bit reducion plug in although u might gett a similar sound with a radically tweeked flaging (try adding a very very short delay)!

Z

---

wot plug-in is used to sidechain.

i read a post where you mentioned using a TC one or Waves...


which waves plugin allows this???

For compression C1 is good and does a good distortion!

For weird stuff use extreme fast settings on any of the sx's plugs like metalizer, flager, etc... U can use and automation 2 make it hit only the end of the sound (decay or release portion basically)...

Z

ok so when u say kick 2....do u mean the second layerd kick liek this

KICK one k--- k--- k--- k---

KICK TWO k--- k--- k--- k--- <----sidechain that


or


is kick 2 like this,,, k--- K--- k--- K--- <--IS THAT KICK 2?


THANKS

First option!!

Luv the grapix lol

:)


Z

so basically that kick 2 wont be heard and will efect all and any percusion that it is attached to?

yep .. only used 2 trigger the compressor on anything u run thru it... normally the bassline!

Z

does the bassline some time repeat every kick..or every two kicks..is that possible i mean...that what is giving it a quick reversed sorta sound..when it has a quick attack..etc..