sellin white labels?

[crime]

they can sell what they like - they are called shops. You give them samples and the customer want them - hay they get sold.

Stop giving shops promos or don't worry about it.

The real issue is the fact that no money from the promos gets back to the label and artists.. Shops are given promos by distribution companies to encourage them to buy titles, so there's no way you can stop promos getting to the shops as it's part of the process..
And shops shouldn't really be selling promos as they are technically speaking "for promotional use only" although I do understand that shops have a tight enough time of it anyway trying to make money. It's just if I give my distributor 60 whites to do the presales, and they all get sold, that's 60 record sales I'm down.. considering I only sell 100-150 of a release in the UK, and this is where most of the whites go, that's quite a dent in my UK sales...
Good thing I'm not in it for the $$ really eh?

[g]

they can sell what they like - they are called shops. You give them samples and the customer want them - hay they get sold.

Stop giving shops promos or don't worry about it.

The real issue is the fact that no money from the promos gets back to the label and artists.. Shops are given promos by distribution companies to encourage them to buy titles, so there's no way you can stop promos getting to the shops as it's part of the process..

you could stop it, or control the $, if digital distribution would come down to our level and make .wavs available for purchase either directly from the label or some organized online distro...

[Tiddlypeep]

If you don't want shops to sell promo's then don't cut vinyl TP's

Use CD's as it's cheaper and no shop can see them.

Can they?.

Will :)

[Tiddlypeep]

sorry that should be Sell them!.

Will :)

[crime]

If you don't want shops to sell promo's then don't cut vinyl TP's

Use CD's as it's cheaper and no shop can see them.

Can they?.

Will :)

you don't "Cut" TPs, you cut onto laquer, which the metalwork then gets taken off, and then the stampers are made from the metalwork. It's impossible to press a record without having test pressings, you have to check and ok the tps before you go ahead and get your finished product manufactured, the idea being that any manufacturing defects will get picked up at the test pressing stage... Generally you get only 10 tps, and this is the minimum amount (I think) you can order.. You can get a deal on whites (These are usually what you find in shops, not tps), they generally work out at 60p a copy, so going on that price they're not really any more expensive than cds... Plus you've got to bear in mind the time it's going to take for you to burn the cds (60 of!).. to be honest, if it was more of a viable option, people in the industry would be doing it this way already.
It's very simplistic to say what you just said above, the way the whole thing works is a lot more complex than that...

[crime]

you could stop it, or control the $, if digital distribution would come down to our level and make .wavs available for purchase either directly from the label or some organized online distro...

I'm more interested in pressing vinyl for djs than going for the whole hollow promise that the internet is turning out to be. We've considered possibly offering music in this format, but to be honest it's something I'd rather do on Backcat stuff that's in demand but not viable to repress...
Also by only offering something only on the internet you're basically alienating anyone who doesn't have broadband, anyone can walk into a record shop, not everyone has a computer...

[Adverse]

If you don't want shops to sell promo's then don't cut vinyl TP's

Use CD's as it's cheaper and no shop can see them.

Can they?.

Will :)

you don't "Cut" TPs, you cut onto laquer, which the metalwork then gets taken off, and then the stampers are made from the metalwork. It's impossible to press a record without having test pressings, you have to check and ok the tps before you go ahead and get your finished product manufactured, the idea being that any manufacturing defects will get picked up at the test pressing stage... Generally you get only 10 tps, and this is the minimum amount (I think) you can order.. You can get a deal on whites (These are usually what you find in shops, not tps), they generally work out at 60p a copy, so going on that price they're not really any more expensive than cds... Plus you've got to bear in mind the time it's going to take for you to burn the cds (60 of!).. to be honest, if it was more of a viable option, people in the industry would be doing it this way already.
It's very simplistic to say what you just said above, the way the whole thing works is a lot more complex than that...

hahahahahaha lovely.

[AcidBastard]

I get promos alot when ordering from online record stores, I don't know if I should be glad to get white lables or pissed because they don't have the nifty record labels, :hmm:

[death on a stick]

crime - I think the guy was hinting at the idea of using CDs instead of vinyl as the pre-sale promo material. Makes sense to me as they can't be sold on and are cheaper than vinyl, although you have to do the pressing at some point anyway and you still have to make test pressings.

I don't see a problem with shops selling promos, but it is a shame that that cash doesn't filter back. Oh well, rather they sell them to someone than throw them away!!

[gary_human]

Ive heard about a couple of 'name' djs selling their promos they been sent on Ebay before they come out !!

Ouch man!! Thats so rude it hurts - poor lil indie labels :cry:

[Joseph Isaac]

If you don't want shops to sell promo's then don't cut vinyl TP's

Use CD's as it's cheaper and no shop can see them.

Can they?.

Will :)

you don't "Cut" TPs, you cut onto laquer, which the metalwork then gets taken off, and then the stampers are made from the metalwork. It's impossible to press a record without having test pressings, you have to check and ok the tps before you go ahead and get your finished product manufactured, the idea being that any manufacturing defects will get picked up at the test pressing stage... Generally you get only 10 tps, and this is the minimum amount (I think) you can order.. You can get a deal on whites (These are usually what you find in shops, not tps), they generally work out at 60p a copy, so going on that price they're not really any more expensive than cds... Plus you've got to bear in mind the time it's going to take for you to burn the cds (60 of!).. to be honest, if it was more of a viable option, people in the industry would be doing it this way already.
It's very simplistic to say what you just said above, the way the whole thing works is a lot more complex than that...

Everything you say is true, but you must keep in mind that the 60p/promo is on 120 gram vinyl which is really crappy quality vinyl so the sound may be slightly misrepresented (to a finely tuned ear). Also, depending on who is doing your manufacturing you can have a single test pressing to verify the integrity of the stamp (e.g. look/listen for defects). 10 may be the minimum for your particular manufacturer. Nonetheless, there is no real way to stop stores from selling promos...Its probably just bad karma though...The only record store that sold techno in my city shut down and he sold promos!

[Dustin Zahn]

Anyone remember the old Hawtin story where he and his crew walked into a shop and demanded all of the promotional material for free or they'd call the cops?

[Traxx]

no never heard it, do tell :lol:

[Dustin Zahn]

I forget a lot of the details. But the general outline is that Richie Hawtin and a couple other Detroit cats (maybe Mills...or Hood...or someone, I forget) walked into a recordshop in either Detroit or Windsor and wanted to **** with the guys at the shop, so they demanded any promotional material they had. If the shop didn't comply, they claimed they would call the cops and bust them for selling promotional material that wasn't meant for resale. Supposedly, Hawtin and crew walked out with a shitload of mixtapes, white labels, and other promotional materials. I don't know if it's true or an urban myth but the story is pretty common. He was in town to play last week, I should have asked him.

[Traxx]

sounds funny that :lol:

a take it this was a long time ago or was it recent?

[Dustin Zahn]

"in the good ol' days."

[jonnyspeed]

they can sell what they like - they are called shops. You give them samples and the customer want them - hay they get sold.

Stop giving shops promos or don't worry about it.

The real issue is the fact that no money from the promos gets back to the label and artists.. Shops are given promos by distribution companies to encourage them to buy titles, so there's no way you can stop promos getting to the shops as it's part of the process..
And shops shouldn't really be selling promos as they are technically speaking "for promotional use only" although I do understand that shops have a tight enough time of it anyway trying to make money. It's just if I give my distributor 60 whites to do the presales, and they all get sold, that's 60 record sales I'm down.. considering I only sell 100-150 of a release in the UK, and this is where most of the whites go, that's quite a dent in my UK sales...
Good thing I'm not in it for the $$ really eh?

then you need to talk to both your label and distributor. really, each shop needs one copy to see whether they want to buy more - else it really penetrating DJ circles that will play your records. That you can do through an exclusive mailing list, which you or your label would have to manage.

I see your issue and I also understand that small artists have little sway with distrubutors - if their rule is 60 whites per release then its catch-22. in that case I feel your pain.

[Tony]

they can sell what they like - they are called shops. You give them samples and the customer want them - hay they get sold.

Stop giving shops promos or don't worry about it.

The real issue is the fact that no money from the promos gets back to the label and artists.. Shops are given promos by distribution companies to encourage them to buy titles, so there's no way you can stop promos getting to the shops as it's part of the process..
And shops shouldn't really be selling promos as they are technically speaking "for promotional use only" although I do understand that shops have a tight enough time of it anyway trying to make money. It's just if I give my distributor 60 whites to do the presales, and they all get sold, that's 60 record sales I'm down.. considering I only sell 100-150 of a release in the UK, and this is where most of the whites go, that's quite a dent in my UK sales...
Good thing I'm not in it for the $$ really eh?

your distributor SELLS your promos??? holy!!!!

i used to work in a record shop, they would sell promos to market test the record and it would enter the ordering cysles that we went through. i was naughty and would give them away to regulars and people i knew would play them, but i'd make a note of them anyway.

THE WORST CASE: a big name prog dj was on a promotions agency that i was chatting to. he would tkae his promos to another friends shop and sell them AT DIFFERENT PRICE SCALES to shops. they where sending him everything they had and then he'd flog it, not as a '£10 the lot' kind of perc that clears out your record collection of crap you wont play, no, a calculated price stucture and regular income. yeah some kid pays MORE for a white label that the feverish kids know has come from him, to play them for a few weeks in their bedroom before it comes out anyway. i mentioned it to the agency in jest, they now only send him what they know he'll play.
a point for the people on that particular injustice, hoorah!!

[crime]

your distributor SELLS your promos??? holy!!!!

Erm, now where did I say that???

[Jimfish]

well the distributors i know have pressed a heap for me to mailout a few for them to mailout and a few more to sell before the finished ones arrive.. i just assumed thats the way it works.?