and back to techno! primate and ish.

[gunjack]

What I can't get my head around is why you're better than someone who likes music that you don't, which with the stereotypes and your dismissive attitude is the impression you give me.

well you keep on having that impression and keep generalizing folks you have only seen on the internet, and see how far it gets you. 8)

[Paul Zykotik]

well you keep on having that impression and keep generalizing folks you have only seen on the internet, and see how far it gets you. 8)

*sigh*

Maybe I wouldn't be so quick with generalisations if you weren't giving me sufficient proof of them... :roll:

Anyway, this is going round in circles. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Dustin Zahn]

This is a really good and interesting topic. Sometimes I feel techno needs to be experimental, but sometimes I think people are too serious about it.

Don't forget, techno is dance music. Its made for people to jump up and down and move to. Everytime I walk in the record store, I don't have any expectations really. I don't expect artists to blow me away with release or that release. I listen to a record and I think...will people move to this shit? If they would, and I dig it, I am going to buy it. I don't care if its mind blowing or the same shit but a different day.

Maybe its a bad mind frame to have, but I try to keep myself rooted and remember its all just dance music at the end of the day.

Now mind you, this is no exception for why over half of Primate's releases are weak.

[gunjack]

ok, good point.

[death on a stick]

The thing is...there is plenty of techno out there which goes bang bang bang but doesn't sound like every single release on 200 indistinguishable labels.

Get a techno record with a kick drum...play it in a club...it go boom boom. Doesn't matter if the kick drum is surrounded by deep, abstract atmospheric sounds, innovative percussion programming, whoopass basslines......or just looped with that tribal sample that wotsisname used who sampled it off that other tune on that label by that fella who sampled it off that batacuda thing he found in the second hand store.

Have kick drum, can dance. But techno is so much more than just dance music. Some people have forgotten that...even sadder, some people who've come into techno in the past 5 or 6 years have never been given the opportunity to realise it.

Nobody's saying that the dance element should be removed....it's the crap element that causes problems. Track after track after track of the saaaaaaaaaame thing. Some artists :? are taking the piss!! Why release 20 records that sound the same, have the same samples in them, have the same breakdowns...come on...DO SOMETHING for f u c ks sake.

That shit is easy. Techno (and yes I am going to say words like "should") should be challenging. It should be innovative, it should invoke new experiences. Yeah, jumping up and down to a new funky drum loop can be fun for about 2 seconds, but how about some mental stimulation?

See this is the problem I have when people go on about constantly being experimental and innovative. It's all well and good to be both these things, and I love hearing something new, but a lot of people do just want to listen to music that makes them jump up and down and have a good time, tunes that work for the body and not for the mind. Does this make the techno they listen to any less valid?

No it doesn't make it less valid, it makes it not techno. Techno is and always has been about innovation and imagination as well as being dance music. That stuff is just "hard dance music" masquerading as techno as far as I'm concerned.

People are far too accepting...they get into this sound that their parents hate and makes them jump up and down and fist the air cos it's sooooo bangin' but it not taking them anywhere and not showing them anything. I honestly think that if you got half the people who swear by that loopy drum stuff and played them a proper (DANCEY) abstract techno set they'd huddle in the corner pissing their pants.

To relate it all back to the thread (as this may just as easily have gone into the "issues in techno" thread)...Prime started out great, pushing new artists and new techno sounds...but the problem is that once the formula was realised it was put into overdrive and over the years the genre has become so badly watered down to the point where quite probably the majority of people who call themselves techno heads, and even techno DJs, have hardly ever heard any decent techno. Primate the label has chucked out so many records that were headed straight for the bin...the sad thing being that those conditioned into it thought they were great and bought the f u c kers up like ants on honey.

Now...I can see the responses coming..."if people enjoy it what's the problem?", "how can you say it's rubbish if so many people like it"...but I believe that it's the responsibility of producers, DJs and even distributors to strive to maintain the quality of techno - remember that most people who are involved in techno don't do it for the money, they do it for the love...but this degradation of an artform has led to a proliferation of people who've seen that if you follow an easy formula and kiss the right arses, you can make bucks and get people talking about you. That sucks...

It sucks to see ideals go down the pan cos people need to keep the money coming in. I accept that above all other elements in the process, a distributor is a BUSINESS...but take a look at the roster...how much stuff coming out of the two or three main distros in the UK is actually interesting or innovative. 2 or 3 token "experimental" labels each, countless tribal loop clone labels. [stimpy voice]waaaaaah[/stimpy voice].

There are distros that are pushing the good shit.

I do have a lot of respect for Prime, don't get me wrong, but I am not blind to the way they have diluted and essentially damaged techno. Try going to them now with an idea for a new label that's gonna be a bit left of centre without any Beyer or Marco Bailey remixes...they'll turn you away cos it won't sell like it used to. Well...who helped create the market in which innovative music doesn't sell anymore? You guessed it....

rant over.

[death on a stick]

yo, I'm pretty pissed off that I spent an hour writing this and nobody's commented. Mark...you asked what I thought back at the start of the thread...no thoughts on mine?

[Patrick]

Death on a stick ! I was going to say something like "Go preach it from the mountain" when I read your post last night, but I'm inherently lazy and I never got around to typing it. :roll:
So I'm saying it now : Word ! You da man ! I hear and agree with most, in fact possibly all, of what you're saying there. 8)

[gunjack]

You guessed it....

rant over.

it was a good rant son.

[Dustin Zahn]

I agree with most of what you have to say Death, there's a time and place for everything. Granted, I've said I am in the "it's just dance music" mindframe, but I also am diverse enough to really appreciate the "thinking man's techno."

It might be a shame that we can't rely on producers that we used to for this thinking type of techno, but it just challenges you to look harder and find fresh new talent. I've always been a fan of minimal techno, and lately when I want to hear thoughtful techno, I usually turn to minimal. It's not only about what you hear, but what you don't hear.

[Adverse]

that's quite a diversity

[zaalmoetlos]

i used to like the stuff but i haven't heard a good record on the label(s) for over two years now... don't even listen to them any more

[Dustin Zahn]

that's quite a diversity

What can I say? I love techno.

[Jimfish]

when i sent them a demo cd for the first time last year they rang me straight up, having never heard of me, to congratulate me for doing somthing they really liked and told me they would like to do somthing with me after xmas.. In that time i got the tracks signed up by other labels and ive been meaning to send them more ever since...
But they have rung me up just to tell me to keep up the good work and give me some words of encouragement etc...which i thought was rather nice...

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?

probably

[miromiric.]

It's not only about what you hear, but what you don't hear.

how true!

[Dustin Zahn]

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?

Why don't you let us people here on the board hear your music and we'll let you know. :)

[Adverse]

here dustin, some of jim's tracks he posted in the filez section :

http://blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB2/vi...f9be691ffdaa42

[Patrick]

But if they like my music does that mean its pretty bog standard?

Why don't you let us people here on the board hear your music and we'll let you know. :)

Jimfish, have you got a release on the 1% Production label ?

[MARKEG]

Sorry Death.. It's been a very crazy week... I've just got back from the weekend and I've been meaning to reply to this so here goes!

I actually totally agree with you. Techno used to be soooooo challenging in it's early days. The true meaning of techno was very different then to what it is now. If we're looking at the last 20 years of techno as a whole and you put the last 4 Marco Bailey releases up against that, then Marco Bailey is not techno. The formula in this guys music is so obvious. Yet it doesn't stop me playing it.

This type of Prime/Marco Bailey 'techno' can show people 'the light' that is serious techno. Sure, techno has become 'trancified' in many ways but it has meant that i can play certain styles of techno in clubs that I could never usually play techno at - and convert alot more people into the sound. I like that. Therefore I see Prime's music now as a bridge to something deeper.

I think both me and you know that formulated music is not what techno originally stood for but the fact is, the definition has changed and we're not going to get it back.

When we say 'techno' it now means the 4/4 club stuff??????

When we say 'experimental techno' then that means true techno?????

I dunno.

Perhaps it's time to redefine exactly what experimental sound based 'techno' music is???

[Dustin Zahn]

Sometimes it seems even techno heads don't know what techno is, haha. It's the debate that will never end.

[Adverse]

how many people feel like this is a constructive topic?

personally, i regret starting this one.

i say that techno is not a broad genre in fact it's rather condensed. defining what is real true techno, what a waste of time. sorry.

tell me if i'm wrong but defining things (or trying to) just makes them boring.