THE KEY TO GOOD BUSINESS IN TECHNO

[Traxx]

was that the mumps record on tortured or another one since?

[Evil G]

Know your market and what is selling where - you might think the latest Umek 12" was a pile of shite but it did 12,000 units - go figure ;)

Martin

foregive me if this is a dumb question, but what is considered "good" for sales of a record these days? 2,000 copies? i know that most places do minimum runs of 500.

[miasma man]

It seems that to get a P & D deal you have to be fairly well established, have a bit of a reputation, which I suppose is obvious cos then the distributor knows your records will sell.

We don't have enough of a reputation at the moment but we're working on this, a lot of it is promoting to the right circles.

We've been told that you would ideally need about 5 releases on respected labels before approaching a distributor. Hopefully, we will be able to do this..

I suppose like in all business try and be as helpful as you can, hopefully it works both ways.

[Martin Dust]

Know your market and what is selling where - you might think the latest Umek 12" was a pile of shite but it did 12,000 units - go figure ;)

Martin

foregive me if this is a dumb question, but what is considered "good" for sales of a record these days? 2,000 copies? i know that most places do minimum runs of 500.

I think that depends on your head space really (Love Vs Bottom Line) - I'm putting out some stuff that I know won't do more than 1000, but it deserves to be heard and I'll bite the bullet on the profit line along with the artist to get it heard. But to answer your question most distributers look at 2500-3000 as an average/good.

[Alan Oldham]

White labels were brought up by Dave the Drummer. My question is do people even care about label art or finished package design anymore? Esp. from a Detroit label?

I know the stock, too-cool techno answer is "It's all about the music," so let's just get past that and assume that the music is good.

Seems to me that you can do 500 whites and you're good to go these days. Just sell 'em as is for full wholesale price. No outer jackets, no nothing. The sense I get is that nobody really gives a sh** about design and extras (comics/flyers) anymore. It's the vinyl equivalent of a home-burnt CD. Music is there but no visual context. Nobody cares.

I also base my opinions on when we sell back catalogue, most people prefer white labels to finished copies anyway. More rare.

Your thoughts?

[dirty_bass]

I don`t know really. It`s nice to have a good looking package.

[Jimfish]

yeah i agree totally, im now shelling out a heap on the artwork i wanted (but could never afford) for humanoid. The whole point of calling the label humanoid is in artwork that hasnt thus far existed - which has been a bit crap really.. :lol: get there in the end though. I figure if im only going to make a few hundred quid out of it i may as well spend that money to get somthing quality and unique that i can be proud of.. (so tasty new artwork coming soon! ;) )

[The Overfiend]

When you're at the record store the label art will jump out at you at times.
Good packaging is also about having something you can be proud of. Any artist here can understand that. Lof of us producers are gifted graphic artists as well.

[DJMAYA]

id rather have a properly packaged record over a white label anyday!

thrs nothing worse than looking for a tune in a box full of white labels.
During a set i mean.

[Martin Dust]

White labels were brought up by Dave the Drummer. My question is do people even care about label art or finished package design anymore? Esp. from a Detroit label?

I know the stock, too-cool techno answer is "It's all about the music," so let's just get past that and assume that the music is good.

Seems to me that you can do 500 whites and you're good to go these days. Just sell 'em as is for full wholesale price. No outer jackets, no nothing. The sense I get is that nobody really gives a sh** about design and extras (comics/flyers) anymore. It's the vinyl equivalent of a home-burnt CD. Music is there but no visual context. Nobody cares.

I also base my opinions on when we sell back catalogue, most people prefer white labels to finished copies anyway. More rare.

Your thoughts?

I care, I care a lot. Great artwork won't ever save a shite record but I love to get the feel of a label via their art - pick up it values and mind set. I'm all for artwork. White labels are fine for their job but once you got a few, well it does wear thin and there's nothing cool about them. Do people still think they are cool? When I see them in shops it usually means "The crap they/DJ's get sent for free and are trying to sell to me - bastards" in my head - although this isn't always right, so I do give them a spin - just in case ;)

I think the main reason people don't use artwork is it wipes out the profit on the first 1000 pressed. I'd still rather have something that looked good and was different than a black discobag any day of the week.

I guess there will always be a school of thought that believes White Labels top be rare or of greater value but something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay.

So, if you didn't pick it up- artwork all the freaking way...

Martin

[Martin Dust]

Oh yeah and I think there's no excuse for bad artwork either. Take UR, love there music - hate the label/sleeve artwork - if you are going to do that kind of stuff get the masters in Bisley, Walker, Staples - don't fanny around - do it properly...

[davethedrummer]

personally i love good artwork
it was one of the reasons for me to buy records when i was a kid and i still get enticed by it today.
these days though money is tight and artwork costs , so labels do tend to hold back on it.
Idid an experiment label with just white sleeves and stikers with white labels earlier on this year and you know what? it still cost a small fortune!!!
you really have to weigh up whether your label will sell enough to absorb the artwork costs and remember its the artists money you're spending too, ( theoretically)and you know what we were saying earlier about small amounts of money moving quickly?

but i have to say alan , i've always loved your djax labels so please don't feel that no one cares about it 'cos i do . and i'm sure plenty others do too.

[fatcollective]

Just like to say this topic has been really interesting, we have just started a new label and this is the sort of info which is a great help, with different views from different people, expreienced ones especially. It has opened my eyes to a few different things and i think we can only learn from here on.

cheers

[schlongfingers]

Not intending to offend anybody, but artwork makes absolutely zilch difference to me when buying music, it'll be ****ed up within 2 months anyway if the music is good enough.

In terms of good business.. my opinion is, like everything else with techno, the rule is there is no rule. People will follow others to the point of stagnation whereupon an innovator will set a new standard.

[djsirround]

in my opinion artwork is very important, when we got out our first release in june people came to me and told me yes, that record which have the label of the buildings right? (because its called Urban State Records and there is these tall buildings on the front)

Regarding the expenses, in our first release we had to push our label and sent many mailouts etc but for the second release the expenses and mailouts for sure will be less, of course after the first experience. Luckily the designer is a good friend of mine and its free :P

anyways its a very good topic which for sure is giving ideas to the new ones :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Sunil]

Not intending to offend anybody, but artwork makes absolutely zilch difference to me when buying music, it'll be **** up within 2 months anyway if the music is good enough.

Well to me, the artwork is a great added bonus but not essential if funds don't allow. A disco bag/cardboard outer sleeve is necessary though, paper sleeves only don't impress me too much

In terms of good business.. my opinion is, like everything else with techno, the rule is there is no rule. People will follow others to the point of stagnation whereupon an innovator will set a new standard.

The fact this is techno should make little difference to how you approach it as a business. No-one's saying there's strict rules, but there's no harm picking up tips and putting them into practice if you want your enterprise to work.

[Fake DJ]

I think art work gives a label a sense of identity (along with the sound ;) ) but even the simplest designs are better than a crappy black cover

altho black covers are better than white paper sleeves

and also, white paper sleeves arent necassary in a proper cover, its ok for rec shops because it keeps the vinyl more pristine (sp) but it aint necassary

[miasma man]

I love the artwork on records, v important, it gives me a better feel for the theme, context, etc. Communicating without having heard the record.

I also think that while the music is the major part of a recording its not all there is to it, there should be something more than that. I think there should be a finished product that's well thought about from every aspect.

[jonnyspeed]

set truely measurable objectives, with realistic targets and timeframes. Cash flow is a critical key performance indicator. Anybody interested shouls have a read about "Balanced Scorecards" and "KPIs"

[Evil G]

set truely measurable objectives, with realistic targets and timeframes. Cash flow is a critical key performance indicator. Anybody interested shouls have a read about "Balanced Scorecards" and "KPIs"

bleh. i have to deal with key performance indicators at work every day. la yuck.