THE KEY TO GOOD BUSINESS IN TECHNO

[davethedrummer]

in my opinion is:

small amounts of money moving quickly


recently at s.u.f. hq we have adopted this attitude to make sure nothing like the infectious bankruptcy affects us like it did before , the process is simple:

pay people as soon as you have the money to do it.
don't sit on the cash , and don't allow invoices and debts to pile up.
this may seem obvious but it is amazing how many people in the industry still don't do this , and i honestly believe it is a principle reason for labels and distributors going bust.
The temptation to leave it , or wait until there is a more serious amount due is understandable.
But paying the guy the 50 that you owe him now, rather than waiting until it becomes 100 is really the way forward for underground techno companies especially when there is so little money being made and record sales are so down.

how often have you heard " oh these guys went bust owing everyone 10,000's of pounds" etc etc....?

or " its just a question of cashflow" ????

well thats it , CASHFLOW! The answers right there in that word. make that money move even if it's 10 pounds , it keeps a tight ship and minimizes risk , it also gives us the encouragement to keep going and be a part of it.

it's just something i was thinking about and wanted to know your thoughts on this
obviously no one wants to talk about their personal finances on the net but there's a point in there , maybe one of you guys has been thinking the same thing.

this also can relate to extreme dj wages ( there are many arguments about this ) where they do not represent the actual "bums on seats" value of the dj.
paying djs what they are worth and not some figure plucked out of thin air will essentially keep the clubs open for longer , give people more variety
( the spice of life right???) and enable the base of the scene
( newcomers (yes those guys who spend ages making mix tapes and tracks at home) , labels, shops , distribution ) to grow stronger.

it has a lot to do with morale , how sick are you of hearing that , this club has finished? this company has gone ? oh, that guy has retired ?
it saps the soul and lifeforce from the music everytime you hear something negative.

so this message is for everyone ( as if we don't know already)
keep a tight ship , pay everyone ( even your mates ) on time and the correct amount , and for all you superstar djs out there , don't take the piss!
for every 10,000 a mega dj makes , another younger dj (who wants it bad and could probably eat you for breakfast ) goes hungry.......

i don't mean literally but.............you know what i mean!

what do you lot think?

[davethedrummer]

sorry i just realised this thread could get messy
i don't want to get into a slagging match about overpriced djs (again)
but it would be good to hear postive thoughts on how to keep the business alive

[The Overfiend]

Brilliant Topic Henry.

[Alan Oldham]

Well I suppose the first thing is to get people to realize that this is a business or industry. Most newer people in the game refuse to recognize it as such

[dirty_bass]

I think your right about the whole moving money, keeping it payed when it should be payed.
But as you know the business doesn`t work like that. there are too many bullshitters.
I personally would prefer the words "can`t pay you, sorry, I`m ****ed, you`ll have to wait, or, look mate, we can`t guarantee all the money for that order now, but we`ll pay you half nowm " etc
than the typical front of the business ie "sorry mate, my missus blew up the credit card machine, or, I just missed the bank mate, or, I`ve got money coming in tommorrow" etc
Straight talk rather than bullshit.
I personally would rather hear, what I don`t want to hear. Than some meaningless front off.

But yeah, ideally, if everyone had your, of the SUF`s opinion of cashflow. We`d all be happier bunnies.

[Sunil]

Well I suppose the first thing is to get people to realize that this is a business or industry. Most newer people in the game refuse to recognize it as such

Sure thing. The whole "I'm into it for the love, don't care about making money, if we break even it's cool" is very naive. If you're going to start up any type of project /label/clubnight etc., you need to keep your head above water which means making money. It's possible to keep it real and make money, you need to know what you are doing though and have a good oversight on the market and where it's going, there's so many people that still don't have a basic grasp of this and as a result their efforts are worthy of little mention, it turns into a mess. Why bother then? If you *genuinely* see what you're doing as being something that'll make a difference or add to the scene then go for it, if you don't then forget about it.

[Martin Dust]

Learn that a P and D deal means you don't actually own anything but the copyright. The amount of "wars" I've seen over this when a company goes down is unreal.

Be open and honest and you can't really wrong.

You can't make people want something they don't want.

Ensure you spend your folding stuff with those that don't treat you like dirt.

That the internet isn't the be all and end all - Numbers of views does not and probably never will turn into people through the door.

That quotes from DJ's don't mean shit to a buyer.

[Sunil]

That quotes from DJ's don't mean shit to a buyer.

Unless the quotes actually sound favourable and not out of context, like the short 3-4 word cut and paste quotes often sound.

Some companies still go way over the top, listing off their favourite 15 top league techno DJs that play the record (or who got it in the post), this shit makes no difference and often creates an undesired effect, giving the record less meaning or relevence to the buyer.

[romelpotter]

great topic :lol:

as a new business, then techno is a high risk propersition, so as a new business man, it would be fair to say that you would look to some other safer form of business to make your money, so with that said a love of techno would have to play a big part of it.

[Martin Dust]

That quotes from DJ's don't mean shit to a buyer.

Unless the quotes actually sound favourable and not out of context, like the short 3-4 word cut and paste quotes often sound.

Some companies still go way over the top, listing off their favourite 15 top league techno DJs that play the record (or who got it in the post), this shit makes no difference and often creates an undesired effect, giving the record less meaning or relevence to the buyer.

I've spoken to over twenty buyers in the last two weeks Sunil - all said they take little to no notice - it's hardly surprising really - they now pay more attention to reviews in magazine/sites. So even if you get major support they don't see this as a reason to buy - harsh but true.

[Sunil]

I've spoken to over twenty buyers in the last two weeks Sunil - all said they take little to no notice - it's hardly surprising really - they now pay more attention to reviews in magazine/sites. So even if you get major support they don't see this as a reason to buy - harsh but true.

I'm not disagreeing with that, any buyer worth their salt would not be fooled by the bullshit talk on many press releases, it's been the unashamed abuse of "this DJ said this" and so on that's decreased the effect of your average press release.

However there's still ways, in press releases, to make them sound good. A good press release can be written with knowledge, honesty and cop on (maybe sometimes with a bit of humour). Another press release can be written in over the top, conveyor belt mode that gives it little identity or appeal. I know which one I'd take more seriously.

[webassassin]

Well I suppose the first thing is to get people to realize that this is a business or industry. Most newer people in the game refuse to recognize it as such

Sure thing. The whole "I'm into it for the love, don't care about making money, if we break even it's cool" is very naive. If you're going to start up any type of project /label/clubnight etc., you need to keep your head above water which means making money. It's possible to keep it real and make money, you need to know what you are doing though and have a good oversight on the market and where it's going, there's so many people that still don't have a basic grasp of this and as a result their efforts are worthy of little mention, it turns into a mess. Why bother then? If you *genuinely* see what you're doing as being something that'll make a difference or add to the scene then go for it, if you don't then forget about it.

Hells yeah! :clap: Not only is it naive but it is also a form of denial. Some people will say "Oh, music should be free", because they know darn well that no one is buying their music, hence in their minds the reason why music should be free in general, therefore lowering the standards and worth of the music. People who strive to take care of and know their business and care about the quality of their product will make more and more money as time wears on. That's just how it goes.

I don't care if someone makes money as long as they go about it correctly and respectfully.

[dan the acid man]

blooody greaqt topic, im not involved in the business side yet, so i cant contributre much, but it does make sense to pay people as soon as the money comes through/.................sorry im a bit pissed

[DJMAYA]

yea mate!

this whole industry (right down to mixing) is all about having a good state of mind! so if cashflow is gona give people a lil boost every now and again then so be it!! god knows we all need it.

[killarava2day]

pay people as soon as you have the money to do it.
don't sit on the cash , and don't allow invoices and debts to pile up.

I allow this to happen in most facets of my financial life. Sometimes you need to be burnt hard, to realise the pain you can cause to others (by not paying your bills)...but sometimes you can feel, somehow, more secure knowing you've got money behind you in the bank. One of my friends gloats about avin 20k in the bank, but seems to neglet to advise that he has a 30k credit card problem.

[Martin Dust]

I've spoken to over twenty buyers in the last two weeks Sunil - all said they take little to no notice - it's hardly surprising really - they now pay more attention to reviews in magazine/sites. So even if you get major support they don't see this as a reason to buy - harsh but true.

I'm not disagreeing with that, any buyer worth their salt would not be fooled by the bullshit talk on many press releases, it's been the unashamed abuse of "this DJ said this" and so on that's decreased the effect of your average press release.

However there's still ways, in press releases, to make them sound good. A good press release can be written with knowledge, honesty and cop on (maybe sometimes with a bit of humour). Another press release can be written in over the top, conveyor belt mode that gives it little identity or appeal. I know which one I'd take more seriously.

Absolutely - A well written Press Release certainly helps and a few quotes wouldn't hurt but having seen loads of them it wears a bit thin after a well so you do have to box clever.

And while we are talking about promo's - my advice would be to send no more than 20 12"s out - anymore and you wipe out any profit on the first 1000 and if you don't need a sleeve don't use one as this will also keep the turn over up. Always chase people for reviews as well.

A good website with sound samples also helps as will setting up a small shop, even if it's with Paypal, because this will mean you get a better return to share with the artist - all helps.

[davethedrummer]

That quotes from DJ's don't mean shit to a buyer.

Unless the quotes actually sound favourable and not out of context, like the short 3-4 word cut and paste quotes often sound.

Some companies still go way over the top, listing off their favourite 15 top league techno DJs that play the record (or who got it in the post), this shit makes no difference and often creates an undesired effect, giving the record less meaning or relevence to the buyer.

and just to drive this point home more
those horrible press releases that people write ,
like "this record is currently being caned by......."
and if i read " will cause dancefloor devastation / mayhem" once more
i think i'm gonna explode!

one (the only) good thing about prime going down
i just used to read this stuff and think " what w.a.n.k.e.r. wrote this???"

[davethedrummer]

sorry my last reply was a bit over eager
i didn't read th whole thread before i posted ( don't do that again written in notebook)
but martin made a good point about keeping mailouts of promo's down to a minimum , and only mail out in the inner sleeves.

i'd just like to add:
don't bother doing white labels ( apart from your 10 test pressings )
as they are not that cheap and frankly they're a waste of rescouces.
just go straight for the finished product and use those for your promo mailout.
it'll take a few weeks presale for the distributor to catch up anyway so you'll still be ahead of the game and you recieve a nice shiny new record that looks better than a poxy white label.

don't mail out over ambitiously , like if you are making really hard techno don't send it to someone who really won't play it.

we don't send stuff to lot's of major dj's because:

1. they NEVER get back to you
2. they NEVER get back to you
3. they NEVER GET BACK TO YOU!

however john peel , fergie , jules are always worth it ( radio 1 u.k. for techno)

stanny fransen has always returned a reply and so has misjah so those guys are my pals! there have been orthers to so it's not a total bitch

i usually try to reply but i can be forgetful too so i know how it must be for those guys , but the point i'm actually making is that it's YOU the label owner who needs a response right?
so maybe consider sending your releases to regular club djs (like me of course!!! ) who may have a little more time than ritchie hawtin , jeff mills etc etc and may actually appreciate it a little more.

[dan the acid man]

some great tips here

[Martin Dust]

For Press Releases I always give a bit of history and a short piece about the 12" and sometimes feedback and reviews. Plus the release date with full artwork as well...

As Henry has pointed out, there's a few DJ's out there that never reply, X them off the list but I've been surprised by a few and it does depend on your tunes - for example Dave Clarke always replies, even tho he gets loads of shit on the net, I've always found his advice helpful. Pick your targets carefully - it's easy to see what they are into from their charts.

Always get the best mastering you can afford and don't fool yourself that you can pre-master, ever. Get the levels right and leave it to a good pair of ears - that way they will have more to work with. I've no idea who masters Reeko's records but I'd like to kill him/her.

Start your own mailing list and let people know stuff in advance, not to early tho - keep it short and sweet. Get your friends to get the record from the local store - this helps support the label and the local market.

Know your market and what is selling where - you might think the latest Umek 12" was a pile of shite but it did 12,000 units - go figure ;)

Martin