Did WJ Henze Jack a Glenn Wilson Loop?

[Sunil]

I`m not a fan of loops, jacked or not. Sample CD`s advocate lazy programming.

True. But how could you not equate this to being the same as sampling Bjork or a passage from a film? It is after all taking a section of music or a performance, which has been made or programmed by someone else - drum loop, sound, vocal, dialogue whatever it is. Where do you personally draw the line yourself ? Btw. I'm genuinely interested here, not having a swipe or anything.

A few general questions to people...

Sampling drum loops straight does seem to be the laziest form of sampling esp. in hard techno, what do people consider to be acceptable things to sample for a track or techno track?

If it's disguised well and no-one notices, is it alright?

[markus]

If it's disguised well and no-one notices, is it alright?

IMO that's pretty much it right there. I don't see any problems with sampling, obviously seeing how this is techno and all, that's what techno music is. Just do something interesting with the sample. Run it through effects, re-pitch it, re-eq, whatever. Or even sampling a small loop, sure go ahead, but at least do something, use effects on it, chop it up and make a new loop out of it, re-eq, or at the very least use it underneath everything in the track so it's just kind of filling things in a bit, rather than basically doing all the work for the track. But like I said that's just my own personal opinion.

I'm glad that this thread has moved to something a little more constructive. ;)

[dirty_bass]

True. But how could you not equate this to being the same as sampling Bjork or a passage from a film? It is after all taking a section of music or a performance, which has been made or programmed by someone else - drum loop, sound, vocal, dialogue whatever it is. Where do you personally draw the line yourself ? Btw. I'm genuinely interested here, not having a swipe or anything.

A few general questions to people...

Sampling drum loops straight does seem to be the laziest form of sampling esp. in hard techno, what do people consider to be acceptable things to sample for a track or techno track?

If it's disguised well and no-one notices, is it alright?

Well, as I have grown as a producer, personally, I find more satisfaction and honesty (it may just be that I am a control freak) in programming everything. Or at least as much as possible.
I don`t see the need to hang a sample (bork, bless her) I used 2 years ago to be representative of my current opinion.
To me, techno is like 70% percussion. Without a good beat (dance based) techno, falls down. So really programming your own percussion is a must, as it is the heart of the track. I mean, it`s not exactly hard to programme a rocking percussion pattern. So to rely on loops is just lazy.
Vocals on the other hand, are not easily reproduced.
Personally I do most of the vocals in my new tracks.
But alas, when I need a chicks voice, I can`t get those high notes.

Loops are a good starting point for new producers, admittedly.

[markus]

True. But how could you not equate this to being the same as sampling Bjork or a passage from a film? It is after all taking a section of music or a performance, which has been made or programmed by someone else - drum loop, sound, vocal, dialogue whatever it is. Where do you personally draw the line yourself ? Btw. I'm genuinely interested here, not having a swipe or anything.

A few general questions to people...

Sampling drum loops straight does seem to be the laziest form of sampling esp. in hard techno, what do people consider to be acceptable things to sample for a track or techno track?

If it's disguised well and no-one notices, is it alright?

Well, as I have grown as a producer, personally, I find more satisfaction and honesty (it may just be that I am a control freak) in programming everything. Or at least as much as possible.
I don`t see the need to hang a sample (bork, bless her) I used 2 years ago to be representative of my current opinion.
To me, techno is like 70% percussion. Without a good beat (dance based) techno, falls down. So really programming your own percussion is a must, as it is the heart of the track. I mean, it`s not exactly hard to programme a rocking percussion pattern. So to rely on loops is just lazy.
Vocals on the other hand, are not easily reproduced.
Personally I do most of the vocals in my new tracks.
But alas, when I need a chicks voice, I can`t get those high notes.

Loops are a good starting point for new producers, admittedly.

:clap:

[Joseph Isaac]

I tend to treat samples as a notes...

[Paul Nisbet]

word. you have no idea what the **** went on here with skull tunes last year that was a stupid mess.

i'm of your school when i found out the majority use pre recorded loops (sometime during that whole ST mess) i was very disillusioned.

cheers joseph

Totally, getting well too caught up in a minor detail, this type of thing just ends up a mud throwing contest, so really not sure what anyone can take out of this topic (apart from ill formed judgement on producers)...

Skull tunes topic last year started similer, and ended up going WAY to far.

Its as easy as that.

[gunjack]

lick me where i pee. :)

Been there, done that.

u wish ho.

[professor]

write your own sh-t, period.
if you need to jack, tell everyone about it...it's all a mater of "intellectual property" and "copywrite".
Those "royalty free" loop cds are fair game, but i agree with dirty on this...use of them would seem to boil down to lazy and sometimes unimaginative programming.
slag me if you like, but why "throw one in and mash it up to fill the space" when you could load up a drummachine or synth yourself and throw in your own loop to fill space???

[professor]

i know what i've said has already been said 10000000000times. probably should have kept quiet.

[The Overfiend]

I will defend Henze though, he has been one of my absolute faves, for years.

[killarava2day]

I will defend Henze though, he has been one of my absolute faves, for years.

God he's release alot of music over the years, some not soo good, but he hasn't been too worried about putting his music out there though.

[jake]

"DID GLENN WILSON USE A SAMPLE CD?"

[loopdon]

Not wanting to step on toes here but this isn't surprising about this release. I can point out a bunch of instances where he totally jacked samples from other producers (or it's a coincidence that they use the same patches on synths, drum machines), but I won't out of respect to WJH because there is already enough player hating going on in techno right now.

wjh puts out tunes very very often, he obviously relies on the cash flow from records more than other artists do :roll:

therefore i am not too surprised....

[djshiva]

like ben sims hasn't been jacking loops for years...

[Ritzi Lee]

like ben sims hasn't been jacking loops for years...

indeed!

[loopdon]

like ben sims hasn't been jacking loops for years...

indeed!

examples please.

[The Overfiend]

No, no examples. This isnt about lynching every one who uses loops and attempting to single out someone who does because face facts EVERYONE DOES. THIS WILL NOT TURN INTO A LYNCHING SESSION, BECAUSE I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, WE ALL SAMPLE. WE ALL LOOP. PERIOD.