www.jetgroove.com

[The Overfiend]

i say sue them. my lawyer says enjoy the free publicity and set up a liscense with them.


the have done wrong and can be sued. they dont need to have sold units to have performed fraud and mis representation. they are also potentialy breaking criminal laws just not civil.

and i settledown i'll probably go with the advise of my lawyer.

your lawyer is also a cool cat.

[karlo]

its ****ed up, becaouse every boy can download all new stuff and play it over FS for FREE!!!!!!!

THIS MUST BE CLOSED!!!!!!

[eyes without a face]

agreed dude.... agreed

this has caused such a stir in the scene, not seen this many backs up for a long time!

[schlongfingers]

no its not, because nuloop is an online record store that sells records in the legal way i.e deals with distribution companies, everything is above board

...

where as jetgroove have basically advertised tracks in mp3 format for sale without seeking permission from anyone they should, like distributors, artists, record labels etc etc....

I'm not sure that's the 'legal way' is it? It's the established way but I'm not sure doing it a different way is illegal, if anyone can tell me why it is and under what law I'd like to know it. And this falls under Russian law I believe??

i really dont know how u can try and make a defence/argument for this website when its apparent to everyone and i mean literaly EVERYONE involved that they are being quite ruthless in their actions and basically have no regard for any of the artists they are doing wrong too

I'm just saying what I think, and I don't think of it like an 'everyone' i'm afraid, the world is funn of opinions not bleating innit.

there is a massive difference between what nuloop and jetgroove do...... massive!

Nuloop and numerous other online stores advertise items they don't have in stock, allow users to add to a wishlist, they certainly list items that they haven't had in stock for years, in some cases I believe they haven't had them in stock at all. Many stores both online and offline offer a record finding service, this service is just an online equivalent - in many ways it is discogs with sound clips.

its **** up, becaouse every boy can download all new stuff and play it over FS for FREE!!!!!!!

THIS MUST BE CLOSED!!!!!!

Karlo they AREN'T selling full downloads without an agreement with the copyright owner, they are offering short clips, no longer than many clips on Juno and other major online stores - I suggest you open a dialogue and decide whether you want to work with them or not.

[eyes without a face]

dude, seriously, have u even looked at Jetgroove? they have WHOLE EP'S ADVERTISED FOR SALE AT DOWNLOADABLE MP3'S!!!! there are range of single tracks or whole eps advertised there dude, they are nothing like discogs.

come on man check these things out before u comment, seriously!

and of course online record stores such as nuloop are legal, if they werent they would almost definately be shut down soon, as i feel confident jetgroove may be!

you need proof before u can say that u believe certain stores like nuloop have never had certain records in stock, come back with proof of this and il believe u... u only have to go to jetgroove now and u know that from the START they havent had the tracks available, or the tracks they do have are illegal downloads!

joking aside mate, u wanna hand ur spade over now or keep digging?

[eyes without a face]

and by the way, its not opinion dude, what these guys have done is wrong and those who really believe in the scene and their music all stand by this FACT.

i feel so strongly about this and its not even my music involved here, that surely tells u something!

[eyes without a face]

come on peeps i know its late but surely im not alone here? haha

;)

[schlongfingers]

dude, seriously, have u even looked at Jetgroove? they have WHOLE EP'S ADVERTISED FOR SALE AT DOWNLOADABLE MP3'S!!!! there are range of single tracks or whole eps advertised there dude, they are nothing like discogs.

Discogs contains the listings for whole EP's and has affiliate links through to record finding services like Amazon, Gemm and Musicstack - it's similar in concept, although less overtly commercial in its nature.

and of course online record stores such as nuloop are legal, if they werent they would almost definately be shut down soon, as i feel confident jetgroove may be!

I'm not suggesting Nuloop is illegal!! I'm using them as a comparison against Jetgroove in terms of displaying items they don't actually have for sale. Its analagous because they show images, clips and wishlist options for items they don't actually have to sell - it's very similar in its concept.

you need proof before u can say that u believe certain stores like nuloop have never had certain records in stock, come back with proof of this and il believe u... u only have to go to jetgroove now and u know that from the START they havent had the tracks available, or the tracks they do have are illegal downloads!

Fact is the have listings for items that they don't have in stock, and certainly they list records that they could not possibly have had in stock - unless they were running their online store before the advent of the internet - http://www.nuloop.com/Result2_e.php?...&image.y=0

And by the way, its not opinion dude, what these guys have done is wrong and those who really believe in the scene and their music all stand by this FACT.

Scott, this is OPINION not FACT. Are you suggesting that I must not care about music, and that I dont believe in the music I make, play and enjoy because I don't think Jetgroove is necessarily the devil in disguise? Aw come on.

[Miromiric]

to stickyfingers:
jetgroove is illegal cause of a simple fact they are not trying to sell mp3s of vinyls they PURCHASED (or mp3s how other digitals do normally). instead, they download tunes from soulseek and illegal pirate FTPs specialized in ripping vinyls (which is obvious from how they name their records, if u ever saw a ripped mp3).

[eyes without a face]

dude u questioned Nuloops legality in this comment!

So therefore this is illegal? http://www.nuloop.com/Result2_e.php?...T&Styl=all &Titre=&ref=&image.x=0&image.y= 0


i didnt say u claimed they were illegal, i said u questioned their legality, huge difference mate!

Discogs does contain details of eps, records etc etc yes, but it DOES NOT offer those eps, records for sales as downloads from the site, this is the big difference mate. yes it has links to affiliates, but these are links to people who are legally allowed and known to sell music and whatever other products they have on offer (amazon for example with books, dvds etc).... again there is a MASSIVE difference between the 2 sites!

and yes again, nuloop have got listings for records they dont have in stock, but as ive said before, they have simply SOLD OUT OF THESE RECORDS!!!!! that link u posted doesnt prove anything, records like Joe Smooth- Promised land are classics and records like this are often repressed, sometimes on smaller labels, sometimes on compilations etc etc so just because the record was available before the birth of the internet doesnt meant that it cannot be sold legally on the internet! its not a hard concept mate, usually called something loose like "supply and demand"..... come on dude seriously think about it, jesus!

its easy mate, go to any online store and search for elvis records... this guy was dead long before the internet was an apple in tim berners lee's eye and yet u can get all his stuff online easily.... its not a hard concept to get ur head around dude!

and no i wasnt saying u dont love the music u make, play, listen to etc, but u are one seriously deluded guy if u cant even see past the bullshit that Jetgroove have just laid down for every cunt to step in.....

i will argue this out on this board until the cows come home mate, but the fact is u are then only one who cannot see how jetgroove have undermined every artist they have listed up, how they have set out to intentionally screw every artist they have put up and make a quick, cheap buck....

its not the devil in disguise no, but i bet they are related!

;)

[djsirround]

these guys should be assisinated like people who play trance.. e.g. Tiesto.. joking heheh

But for sure this is not a good thing, 1st of all they are uploading tracks which are illegal, 2nd for my opinion we should stay on vinyl.. may be you tell me but listen they help for promotion etc, its true.. but that may be can do it your site by providing clips on your site, don't afford it? don't do it... but sites like jetgroove should be closed.

[eyes without a face]

WORD


this should clear things up a bit more......

www.trackitdown.net

check that, a legitimate mp3 for purchase downloading site, run by professionals, some of the big hitters in the dance scene (not just techno). This is how an mp3 sale site should be run....

Jetgroove my ass!

[inigo kennedy]

a bunch of thoughts from the past few days. i have to be quick as i've got to hit the road...

i've had my material deleted from jetgroove. not because i despise mp3s (i think it's clear that i don't so i don't think here is the place to make that justification), but because i despise the approach to business and it's potential for detrimental effects on the business in general...

i use the word business not to describe something that involves money but something that involves goods, quality control, relationships and distribution.

whilst the media is jumping up and down about launching action against 28 as yet unamed mp3 file sharers in the uk (and it's happened elsewhere too) we're seeing the genesis of what i think is a far more dangerous beast. it prooves yet again how hard and increasingly harder it will be to police the distribution of non physical goods. the law already struggles to cope with rapidly changing concepts that it wasn't put in place to legislate.

as far as jetgroove and their "legal" response is concerned, there is a clear implication that they are in possession of illegal digital copies of copyright material. it makes no difference if they are yet selling or distributing that material although obviously that would take the illegality further.

the mp3s listed of my material and most others i checked were marked as sourced from vinyl. that to me indicates that they are not sourced from the label as they would be without doubt sourced from the masters. it indicates they are actually in possession of or have access to the material. it will result in further propagating inferior quality material. i'm also concerned that it is highly damaging to existing relationships between labels and chosen legitimate businesses.

i think jetgroove is bringing to attention a much wider problem.

there's masses and masses to discuss about the benefits of digital distribution and the future of music in general but that shouldn't be confused with a discussion about dubious business practices and illegality (or the application of loopholes in a struggling international legal system).

i have to say i find it disappointing to find even free material such as my asymmetric|mp3 project appearing on soulseek, etc. it stinks of greed. what is the point...

plenty more i'd like to write but i've got to go, cheers,

inigo

www.inigokennedy.com
www.asymmetric.co.uk

[eyes without a face]

some wikid points there inigo, and i think its good that someone as involved in the business as yourself has come on and put forward their comments!

im sure that if anyone tried to sue or take legal action against jetgroove wud find themselves in a complicated legal battle, as there are certains things that would be taken into account such as where they got the mp3's, did they buy the source records etc etc but basically, they are breaking the law they need to be stopped.

u have ur own mp3 based label so you've shown ur willingness to embrace the future formats that are developing and using them wisely, but i think everyone, well NEARLY everyone, agrees that these guys just have no regard for the artists, labels, companies that they are trying to make a buck out of.

a very messy affair is this one i think, and i can see it running on for a while!

[schlongfingers]

Scott, I wasn't questioning the legality of Nuloop, it was a rhetorical question.

I really don't have time to sit here on a sunny Sunday arguing the toss about whether or not development is a good thing. But some might find the following news item on Jetgroove interesting, and may even want to follow the information in the last paragraph. Simple solution.

Tuesday this week October 5th JetGroove the biggest on-line underground music provider has launched its website. On the website it offers alternative music downloads in mp3 format made by independent record labels and artists.

During first three days JetGroove received an enormous amount of attention from users, record labels, artists, authors and publishers. And this attention brought some contradictions to the light of music community. The music community was disappointed at some parts of our website and made some wrong assumptions. We wanted to clear up all misunderstandings that arose so we want to explain our position how our website is organized and business is led.

JetGroove is the unique project that we created to give the worldwide exposure to independent record labels and artists, producing alternative music. The way our website organized is:

First part of the website - music, that is represented by record labels who already signed contracts with JetGroove. These tracks are available to be purchased and downloaded.
Second part of the website - information about music that is placed on the website for promotion of independent record labels and artists. These "tracks" could not be purchased or downloaded. However they could be put ON HOLD. As soon as this happens, record label or artist to whom this track belongs is contacted with the offer of doing business with JetGroove. This greatly increases the exposure for many of the record labels.

The line that JetGroove is going to continue to follow is: LEGAL SALES ONLY. The project was created to give independents a good chance of being known in the world, and earning money, not to make them suffer again as they do from p2p systems. And the least thing JetGroove planned to do is to violate rights of record labels, publishers, artists or authors. JetGroove officially states that if you are not interested to have your tracks on www.jetgroove.com, you should contact JetGroove immediately and all the information we have about your tracks will be taken off the website ASAP.

[eyes without a face]

yes thats very true, i read that statement before on jetgroove but also check this out

Second part of the website - information about music that is placed on the website for promotion of independent record labels and artists. These "tracks" could not be purchased or downloaded. However they could be put ON HOLD. As soon as this happens, record label or artist to whom this track belongs is contacted with the offer of doing business with JetGroove. This greatly increases the exposure for many of the record labels.

anyone with even a tad of respect for the artists they are trying to sell should know that this is not the way to do business!!!

its just me setting up an mp3 site with pop bands stuff, then listing everyone from Abba to Westlife, offering their music for sale, then going "oh actually, i forgot to get in touch with them to ask if it was ok to sell their stuff, i best do it now when they are extremely pissed off because ive been advertising their music for sale illegally"

if you dont have the time to argue the toss then why are u? im starting to think youve got a vested interest in jetgroove mate!

development is a good think yes, www.trackitdown.net, theres a good example of development that i posted earlier, check it out mate and see the difference

there is a big difference between development and scheming

[djsirround]

I think we are streching this thing a lot, listen people, in Malta we have a problem, and this is that the people argue but they don't actions, and I think here is happening the same.

I mean, ok, you are sending e-mail to the bulgarian or whatever his surname is, I don't care, he can be from Mars from me, is there anyone outthere who is ready to sue him?

If we don't stop these people they will continue to do these things. There are no central authority or geverning body running the internet, that results to less control of the web domains, I think when some one will buy a web-domain have to give specifications what he/she will upload on the site, and in cases like this have to show legal statements infront.

Come one, we are in 2004!

[gustavo]

did anyone asked for jetgroove to remove theyr stuff from the site??

what happened??

legal actions in russia?? u must be joking or are very naive


if they r really (and it seems so)doing illegal stuff theres only one way

starts with an H and finishs with a K everything else (leagal attourneys is pure fantasy in acountry dominated by corruption)

also ive heard in slovenia and many other places around this happens ...

sad...

people must do something...(and the only thing to do is this cases is answer in the same way...i hope understand...)

[S E]

I asked them to remove the Goathead releases, since I dont think I will ever work with them after the way that they acted.

But the releases are still up there... Have sent some more emails today, so lets see what happens

[Internal Error Records]

i say sue them. my lawyer says enjoy the free publicity and set up a liscense with them.


the have done wrong and can be sued. they dont need to have sold units to have performed fraud and mis representation. they are also potentialy breaking criminal laws just not civil.

and i settledown i'll probably go with the advise of my lawyer.

your lawyer is also a cool cat.

he has is moments. he actually got me listening to acid techno back a few years ago when we went to an acid party in montreal and introduced me to DDr, Roland the Bastard, Chris libeator and others in a bar near the party.

btw it was good to meet you SummerofSam outside of hardnoise.