Production on the Cheap

[fatcollective]

Bullshit advice from people who don't have a clue..

the "hardware is so expensive" excuse is such a copout...

I remember a time when you couldn't make music just on a computer, you had to get equipment together to make music, but it meant that you had to have a certain level of dedication to making music.. I managed it whilst I was homeless with no money so there's no excuse, this is why I say the "I Havn't got money for hardware" excuse is such a copout.. I bet you've got money for clothes, beer drugs and records.. some of us missed out on those things just to make tunes cos we were so passionate about it, we saved every penny just to buy kit.. now it's so easy to download a bit of software but not have a **** clue how to use it.. this it why there's so much fodder in the racks, cos everyone gets a copy of reason and thinks they're a producer...

ok, calm down

part of what your saying is true.
yes anyone can get cracked software etc
But not everyone can make a good tune.

Your comment is more based on the "I did it the hard way, so you must too, mentality". That sounds a little bitter.

Believe me mate, I did the same as you, scrimped and saved to get the hardware, borrowed time in studios etc
Took years to accumulate the kit, and then learn how to use it etc

Now some kid who does a music tech course for 2 years, and gets a high power pc for a grand, can be producing pro stuff in a couple of years, maybe 3 years.

THATS JUST NOT RIGHT, THEY NEED TO SUFFER FOR THEIR ART

So what?
If I could have used a PC back when I was learning I would have.
And I would have gotten a lot further a lot quicker too.
All you are doing is learning how to manipulate soundwaves in a way that ifluences human emotions.
Who cares how it is done.

The fact is, you can do it cheaper, and just as well with software.
If you are genuinly talented, then it will shine through. If you are a talentless gimp, then you will be able to make well produced stuff relatively easily and cheaply with a pc. but it will still be shit.

There is a certain subset of musicians who for reasons unknown adhere to the false premise that digitaly made or "computer" music or the tools involved imply a lack of creativity of inspired performance.
Technology in the hands of creative, intelligent individuals is a tool for art, not a hinderance. Being a member of the current millenia, I embrace this technology.

go on steve, i think you have just summed up this whole topic :clap:

[schlongfingers]

Software, hardware it makes no difference these days, it's what you do with it that counts. I do agree with the sentiment that people who don't pay for software tend to put less effort into learning the tool inside out.

[massplanck]

very well said DB. :clap: but I still feel that paying/saving for something is more worthwhile then downloading 10 new cracked VSTi's. And its this reason why hard techno sounds so shit lately. Not many people are delving deep into their tools... which doesnt happen when you pay 1600 for a synth.. its there sitting in the corner of the room for years staring at you to be used.. you cant get away from it (or the fact you forked out shitloads for it).

[fatcollective]

Software, hardware it makes no difference these days, it's what you do with it that counts. I do agree with the sentiment that people who don't pay for software tend to put less effort into learning the tool inside out.

i would like to hear an example of a Hardware tune and a Software tune...how much diffrence will there be, of course there will be some...it would be like a champagne and wine tasting test...."oohh thats definately champagne" ...."erm...no its not ... its cheap wine" hahahahaha

[schlongfingers]

Software, hardware it makes no difference these days, it's what you do with it that counts. I do agree with the sentiment that people who don't pay for software tend to put less effort into learning the tool inside out.

i would like to hear an example of a Hardware tune and a Software tune...how much diffrence will there be, of course there will be some...it would be like a champagne and wine tasting test...."oohh thats definately champagne" ...."erm...no its not ... its cheap wine" hahahahaha

There are bad and good examples of both.. which kind of makes the idea of posting examples of both a bit irrelevant - no offence intended. There has been absolutely fantastic music made using both approaches.

One thing to bear in mind with software is, you can't polish a turd - if you want good, clear sounds, you need good clear samples to process in the first place - not 56Kb mono mp3's.

[fatcollective]

i know mate ...i was just foolling around...things were getting a bit serious in here :lol:

[fatcollective]

i think these days, a good combination of both are needed...a decent PC, running cubase, outboard FXs n compressor...maybe hardware drum machine for kick n hats, software drum machine for bits of perc...hardware bassline...couple of stabs n noises with software ...lead riff with a hardware synth...that sort of thing...best of both worlds...cant go wrong ;)

[schlongfingers]

Yeah, combination is probably best - though personally I'd only use it for mastering.

I'd say if you are gonna get hardware sound modules, go for synths primarily - kicks and hats are easily available as high quality samples.

Get Monitors!

[fatcollective]

ahh monitors...probably most important...i got a new set of mackie hr624's coming on monday...cant fuc*king wait!

[massplanck]

Get Monitors!

Hardware or Software ones?

[schlongfingers]

Get Monitors!

Hardware or Software ones?

Both, and a virtual midi controller with knobs and sliders to control everything on your hardware.

[massplanck]

Both, and a virtual midi controller with knobs and sliders to control everything on your hardware.

:lol:

lets leave it at that. The old software vs hardware question has finally been solved with the novel suggestion that we should be using both.

[crime]

Yeah,apologies for the pissed up rant, the 8 cans of stella had something to do with it...

The point I'm trying to make here is the fact that software is so easily obtainable from the internet I personally feel that it has lead to a lack of commitment.. I have nothing against software, I just feel that what hardware can teach you has become seriously undervalued, and I personally think it's hard for someone to have a valid opinion on hardware when they have never used hardware..
I suppose as well I'm sick to the back teeth of getting demos that were blatently made with reason in the post that seemed very characterless, and this is the point... a few years ago, no two producers studio set up was the same, and this meant that the sound was also affected, and gave the artist another angle of individuality..
I have nothing against sofware having used Logic extensively in the past, I just like a hybrid of hardware and software, and I like to get demos in the post that have character...

[schlongfingers]

the 8 cans of stella had something to do with it...

Beer drinking hasn't been the same since the advent of aluminium, I feel that the developments in this field have made it a lot easier to be an alcoholic, back in the day... combination of both cans and traditional receptacles.

No, I hear you on the commitment issue and agree - it's like downloading a game, you get bored before you complete it and download another for free.

[Evil G]

i totally agree on the use both conclusion. i'm glad we can let that one rest.

but another bit to thow in to the cost discussion, is that if you are careful about what hardware you buy, it will retain some resale value, so you can always sell it again if it didn't do the trick for you. but with software, it's more like an expense than an investment.

[xfive]

Yeah I sorta learned that lesson when I bought my ESX.
It was either that or the MPC1000, and I ended up going with the ESX due to price (~$150 cheaper or so) and I didn't need all the midi features of the MPC.

The bad part was that the ESX's resale value was absolute shit compared to the MPC.
I ended up being able to get rid of it for $500, including a 128mb memory card and multi-card reader. Total value I paid was $800. It was only a couple months old too... maybe 10 hours of use total.

The MPC on the other hand holds it's value very well.

[omen_owen]

hahahaha

spawned a bit of a beast here

nice suggestions tho, seems ill have 2 do sum thinking ;) ;)

[Evil G]

Yeah I sorta learned that lesson when I bought my ESX.
It was either that or the MPC1000, and I ended up going with the ESX due to price (~$150 cheaper or so) and I didn't need all the midi features of the MPC.

The bad part was that the ESX's resale value was absolute shit compared to the MPC.
I ended up being able to get rid of it for $500, including a 128mb memory card and multi-card reader. Total value I paid was $800. It was only a couple months old too... maybe 10 hours of use total.

The MPC on the other hand holds it's value very well.

ya, i ended up giving my electribe to a kid just starting out for free.

my juno, on the other hand, has actually increased in value during the time i've owned it.