Reinvention.

[xfive]

I'm all down for LivePA etc etc man.. the only point I was trying to make is that releasing slower isn't going to help rejuvinate in and of itself... especially if you consider that the tracks on a big album are probably 1-2 years old..... Vinyl EP's already take hella lead time to get pressed anyway.

Again, if the quality is there it doesn't matter how you are churning it out.
I think we are making excuses by trying to blame things on the state of dj'ing vs LivePA vs whatever... when the fact of the matter is.. YOU are the one using the machines.... (unless you are Squarepusher.. then apparently the machines use you lol) and if you can't make fresh shit with em it's not anyone else's fault but your own.

Read what I said earlier. They key is not 'working by yourself/or blaming yourself if you cant use a particular machine' its meeting up with 3/4 like-minded people and forming something 'band' like and releasing the best thoughts/ideas of a few minds fused together once every so often. Let all the ego fights happen behing closed doors like they used to as opposed to in public on forums. ;) Let them all fight over whats good and whats not amongst themselves and then lets hear it.

How many techno groups can you name with more than 3 people? And more importantly how would the individual members of U2/Throbbing Gristle/The Beach Boys/The Bee Gees/ABBA or whoever sounded like if they had all gone off into their own little rooms and created one little individual band each containing no-one else but themselves and released stuff every month until hell froze over?

Lots and lots of thin music. Which is what we are stuck with.

;)

Ah yes I did latch onto the part about the releasing of the albums and forgot to address your earlier comment.
I do agree with you on that one ;) If anything things such as this board and the internet as a whole will hopefully help us in this area. Maybe some damn good software will come out soon that will make virtual collaboration even better seeing as we don't all have 3-4 like-minded people around to work with... I'd be happy with even one :)

[dirty_bass]

Read what I said earlier. They key is not 'working by yourself/or blaming yourself if you cant use a particular machine' its meeting up with 3/4 like-minded people and forming something 'band' like and releasing the best thoughts/ideas of a few minds fused together once every so often. Let all the ego fights happen behing closed doors like they used to as opposed to in public on forums. Let them all fight over whats good and whats not amongst themselves and then lets hear it.

That`s actually along my way of thinking. I`ve been working on something along this vain, with others, for a little while now.

So how do we fix this? I say we go back to [my] punk/hardcore roots and do it hescher-style (hescher is West Coast slang for "rough") with piling in a van and driving (yes, driving) from gig to gig passing out CDs, promos, or whatever wherever you stop. Even if you don't have a tour full of gigs, you have to start somewhere. Think of an underground rock band that tours and you'll get a better idea of what I mean. Plus, bring along your laptop (yes, i favor the laptop over a sh!tload of hardware) or two crates of records, some clothes and a lot of ramen noodles.

yes yes yes yes yes.
That`s what we need, mad, hectic, debauched, punk style techno road tours.
Bring the rig too, cos you need roadies, they make things even more mad.
I loved my days of being in a band and touring.

[dirty_bass]

You're still forgetting that of those 12 tracks.. probably 8-9 of them are filler.. and the other four WILL be "dumped" on you each month as the singles are released... this gets new people to go buy the album each time.

I'd rather have an EP from an artist each month where they have 1-2 bangable tracks. Each EP is it's own concept.

Let's see that adds up to... what 10-12
quality tracks from one artist in a year vs .. what 3-4 ?

I don't see doing big albums in larger intervals as a way to increase quality.. sorry

If you are producing quality then releasing often is not going to hurt the scene at all.

Maybe in the pop world.

But I`ve got countless albums that from start to finish are complete pieces of work. True art.

NIN, the downward spiral
God Machine, scenes from the second story
The Young Gods, Only Heaven, Second nature, and TV Sky
Massive Attack: 100th window
Curve, Cuckoo
Fluke, Risotto
Jeff Buckley
blah blah

[xfive]

Totally and those are the ones that TRULY do shine!

But if we are talking a bit more into the realm of techno that we deal with on this board, I'm inclined to say similar things regarding filler about some (not all!! :)) full length albums I've heard (and I'm not gonna name any names). ;)

[Evil G]

a travelling techno "sound system" sounds very romantic, but most people are too chicken shit to do it.

given the choice of working a day job to support your own music and selling T-shirts and stickers out of the back of your van after each gig, most people are going to pick the safe and secure answer, and as long as most people are doing one thing, anybody doing something else will have a tough row to hoe.

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

i don't know guys. i do feel like things need to change, but i'm pretty short on ideas. it's like we've painted ourselves into a corner.

[massplanck]

That`s actually along my way of thinking. I`ve been working on something along this vain, with others, for a little while now.

bang on. and theres about 6/7 of us in on something pretty different right now. But It will take time and a hell of a lot of effort to make it work.

I say we go back to [my] punk/hardcore roots "

:love:

[massplanck]

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

but the average raver has stopped going to raves and now goes to see bands wearing his band logo t-shirt..

[Ritzi Lee]

No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like
this

well what do you expect man.
i mean it's still dance music.
maybe your problem is you think too much.
that's one thing that's oooo so wrong.
i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

ok you could vary BPM, sounds, etc etc

i listened your sample.
ok even this we can call techno.
it's a lot of noise and all... but i'm not really impressed.
how can you get excited about this??

[Evil G]

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

but the average raver has stopped going to raves and now goes to see bands wearing his band logo t-shirt..

is that what happened to them? maybe. around here it seems like they are just staying home and listening to infected mushroom cds.

[miss bass]

Some great arguements and opinons....nothing new to add but just reflecting.....

Its something that i must think about, as eventually i want to be bringing something new to the table like everyone... and i do sit there and think of this...

As DB said, djing is almost becoming 'un-cool'.... and there are that many dj's out there, its obviously not impossible to do as in mixing-wise, techniques etc. For me when i see a dj though, musicality is the main thing i focus on and intelligence of it i guess and that isnt always to ones taste, therefore fresh djs can maybe help in that sense....

But technology has taken a leap forward advancing to Ableton which is great, definately bringing out more creativeness musically.

I like the idea of a band.... could really bring some energy for performance too and add to atmosphere. And the idea of many creative minds joining forces to create masterpieces is divine.

I duno think im talking shite...should sleep

[Tyrisia]

Remember Stardancer? The Juan Atkins mix of Strings of Life? More recenctly Knight's of the Jaguar, Funk d' Void's Diabla, Oxia's Trossieme, Deetron's Miss Suave? Now forget whether these tune's could be concieved as 'commercial' for a minute - they are techno, and they do rock, and they have taken techno beyond the boundries of the techno fraternity (mainly to the prog boys, but hey). They are all pieces of music in their own right, not just loop - stabs - filter - delay on the stab - end, and they all have one thing in common, a melody.

These guys may not be doing anything absolutely mindblowingly original or ground breaking, but they are appealing to a wider audience due to substance and - dare I say it - a good feeling in the groove. There's no anger in them tunes, and as much as I think Speedy J rocks an' all, it's a specialist market that he attracts, and a lot of "ordinary" people just won't get it. End of.

Whereas most people understand happy.

Alot of people make techno to an already established blueprint that they percieve to be the "correct" way, giving a certain mood, mostly a dark mood. People will always want that mood to dance to, but at the moment they are in the minority.

AudioInjection made some waves in the Production Filez section recently with his lush, melodic take on techno, which gave me alot of hope, and confidence to try more melodic stuff myself. Alot of people make music that is acceptable to their peers (I'm as guilty as anyone), and that's what's holdin techno back, imho.

[massplanck]

i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

silly me. I must be in the wrong thread.

[dirty_bass]

Ritzi Lee wrote:


i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

Artistically:the only way is forward, standing still or looking back is pointless.
Musically: trying to keep things fresh, so people don`t get bored and walk away.

[scienceofuse]

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, morew a collection of tracks.

I would have to agree with this point - six to eight club tracks and a bit of ambient / electro / breakbeat / whatever to prove that not every track has to have a 4/4 kick drum (and to prove the artist's own "broad vision") does not make an album.

My personal opinion on the subject - three main reasons why techno seems to be stuck in the loophole:

- most novice (and, more alarmingly, even established) techno producers want to sound like someone else, which is not really creative... People think that they aren't gonna get signed unless they conform to a certain "sound" - are you in it for the music or what?

- most people in the techno scene have their own definition of what techno really is, forgetting that techno is only about one rule - "Innovate" ... They think it's "make 'em dance... using every means necessary", but the same shit isn't gonna make 'em dance forever... I also love Ken Ishii's statement "To me, all electronic music is techno" which means that "techno" is open to all kinds of genre-crossing and experimentation

- genre-bashing inside the techno scene... Probably because of the many subgenres that people invent to classify what they're hearing... To me, techno became interesting because it couldn't be classified and you couldn't describe it with words (not very well, anyway)... Now it's like "Oh yeah, that's wonky-techno"

[Ritzi Lee]

Ritzi Lee wrote:


i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

Artistically:the only way is forward, standing still or looking back is pointless.
Musically: trying to keep things fresh, so people don`t get bored and walk away.

I have nothing against reaching bounderies. :)
But the "thinking" part just doesn't FEEL right when you talk about music.
One step in the right direction would be to disnarrow the typical categorisation system in techno.

That when you walk in a record store,
you really have to listen record by record.
And not thinking like: "I have enough of these kind".

There was one argument a while ago in an old topic by Mark EG:
Listen some other sh*t like Jazz or rock or something else.
You would be amazed how much inspiration you get outof other music. :)
You would still be amazed how interesting an old James Brown or Prince album would sound. :)

[Rog]

Maybe there should be more quality control at the distribution end?

yes - also artists should have their own concern of quality - if its not right - don't put it out..

also distribution by yourself will somewhat show the quality - if you cant get rid of it - its not any cop! or the market isn't their.

there is so many new labels starting etc etc, but all we here is vinyl sales are down.. is this constant label shifting trying to keep those of us who still buy looking around?

when i talk of new labels etc - i mainly mean that hard german stuff.

[dirty_bass]

There was one argument a while ago in an old topic by Mark EG:
Listen some other sh*t like Jazz or rock or something else.
You would be amazed how much inspiration you get outof other music.
You would still be amazed how interesting an old James Brown or Prince album would sound.

Yes this is true.
I very rarely listen to techno when I am not at a party, unless I am shopping.
I spend most of my time listening to modern composers these days

[dirty_bass]

Lets hear more folks.

[Rog]

could "real sounds" as in sampled noises other than the world of instruments be used to make a track - i'm not sure if that makes sense - but i'll explain sunday!

so no drum... maybe the sound of a heavy object being dropped.. kind of like industrial sounds - but real sounds as opposed to real instrument sounds.

oh - shut up rog

[dirty_bass]

There already is a pretty prolific genre of music called "found sounds"
I`ve done a bit myself, but it never really has the power.
But a change of pallette is always good.
The amount of people still using the sounds of the 909 and 808 as their main percussion is a little worrying considering that techno is supposed to be progressive. Hearing mills making tracks that still use the old toms and snares etc is a little worrying. There is so much technology out there that needs to be abused.
There are new synths now that use a CPU neural net!!!
I`m dying to know what kinda sounds they make.