Are Dj Tools Killing Techno ?

[The Overfiend]

greed, ego, and spite.

Doesn't seem to have hurt a lot of the big techno DJs over the last 15 years or so.

That's a handful compared to the whole chief.

[scienceofuse]

btw, wasnt insinuating that tools are killing anything..

maybe 'are dj tools stifling creativity' wouldve been a better title :lol:

In that case
If your a musician yes if your a DJ no

[scienceofuse]

...but only if you turn towards techno for inspiration... As for DJ tools, they're just that, tools. But for me, the problem would be the lack of "proper" techno tunes because it seems that tools sell better than tunes.

[Komplex]

...but only if you turn towards techno for inspiration... As for DJ tools, they're just that, tools. But for me, the problem would be the lack of "proper" techno tunes because it seems that tools sell better than tunes.

do you mean "tunes" as in intro, middle and ending with something creative in the middle?

how can we possibly create music like this. its much easier to write a loop and multiply it 48 times.

[Internal Error Records]

Loops are not killing techno, they are saturating the market.
The program that is used to make techno is not killing techno, it is the "Artist" that pumps out the same doo, that is killing techno.
Negativity kills techno, as does greed, ego, and spite.
Just because some one uses pencil not paint does that make the overall result anything less than a canvas painted with a brush?
You can use any program you want and make gold. I don't blame a program I blame the user. Someone who uses Fruity can very well make results that sound better than logic if you know what you are doing and have the talent to do so.

:clap:

[AcidTrash]

ALL records are DJ tools to me. The thing thats annoying (whether or not it's killing techno is debateable) is that there are too many boring unimaginative featureless techno loop records to such an extent that finding anything of quality in hard techno is becoming a bit of an unpleasant chore. One of the reasons I lean more toward the techno end of acid techno.

I reckon if you could get just about every techno loop arrangement on about 50 records and never have to buy one of that style again as the only thing different is whatever EQ setting is perceived as being good production at the time. It's very subject to fashion and there's always plenty people rich enough and stupid enough to put out pap on vinyl just to sooth their themselves from the harsh reality that outside their techno ability they are in fact talentless arses. They come and go and people still stick to the favoured 10 or so artists at the top of the genre because they are the few who can actually afford the kit needed to cut it among ever more pretentious and snobby DJ's.

The biggest issue that I have with hard techno at the minute is the "production, production, production" ethos that everyone's buying into. As a result there are plenty of producers with the technical ear for it knocking out tracks but neglecting to inject an idea or a theme.

Loop techno artists seem to think that only them get the concept of phasing in mixes. We all sussed that., That's why we like techno but a full set of it is piss boring and needs intricacy and anticipation to be entertaining. Something sadly lacking in hard techno at the minute.

Also the sooner this childish shranz fad is over the better too. you might as well just play hard house and run your decks through a guitar effects pedal. Shranz DJ's need to either admit they're gay or get laid. Repression is the only plausible explanation for this form of techno.

/rant

[djshiva]

are dj tools killing techno???

not if they're used right.

[Greg Dee]

FruityLoops seems designed to make techno sound like, ummm loops. Unless you really try to sound more composed.

I agree about using it to make loops, but listen to anything by Ian Lehman...composed solely from Fruity Loops and his music definitely is not loopy...

i was just gonna mention him.

[Internal Error Records]

are dj tools killing techno???

not if they're used right.

*in my best smokey the bear voice* -
"only techno-fools can prevent the killing of dj tools."

[davethedrummer]

i don't agree with any of you!

techno is looped music in one form or another
and it's brilliant!
but more importantly music is only good in the hands of a musician
that musician can be a dj , or a traditional musician but a musician will be able to convey some emotion within what he / she does
which is what will always set some people aside from others.
and why a computer still can't write a song on it's own.

but
musical talent is all about hard work.
not your background ( although in my case it did help )
there are many musicians who came up against insurmountable odds to do what they do now and that story is as old as time.

so here's my point.
3/4 years ago everyone was becoming a dj and becoming opinionated on the subject of playing records.
once you start unfortunately you'll probably never hear a piece of music in the same way again...
you start to analyze it and count it and look for particular sounds or phrases
and as you become more practised at this art , you lose the ability to just kick back and listen to it.
( although with time and practice you can get it back...sort of )

now i think more recently due to the incredible amount of software that's cheaply available , the same thing is happening with production.
people are getting hold of software and programming tracks themselves and thinking " i want to get that noise like......." or " i need to learn about compression" etc etc
again they are losing their innocence in music which means
they are breaking music now into seperate instruments and sounds and structuring songs which suddenly gives them and opinion on not only their own work...but everybody elses too.
so whats happening now is that the amount of "producers" is rising
( drastically) which means that by rights the audience must be shrinking.

the ratio at a gig these days must be 1:50 people who play with music software when they have some spare time and probably more like 1:10 people in a (techno)club who do it quite seriously
that's a really high percentage of people compared to only 7/8 years ago! when virtually no one would have a clue how the music was made , and the equiptment was prohibitavely expensive

so now there's a problem:
too many cooks in the kitchen


for me music needs a certain balance of struggle and dedication to really get that hunger going and i'm convinced that it was that that got the whole electronic music scene started in the first place.

some of you guys may be too young to remember this but when i was young going to a studio really was just that....going to a studio
a purpose built room ,soundproofed with a mixing desk , effects , a room to record live instruments........ etc etc

not going round to your mates spare room.
( although it is amazing that you can do that now i agree)

i'm certainly NOT dissing any of the young producers in the world
( or on this board , many of them will blaze a trail quite brightly i think)
but we have to see that the simple availability of the tools to do the job of prodution is affecting how people actually grade and listen to music.

so if we all become musicians who do we play to?

familiarity breeds contempt

think about it

[AcidTrash]

There really is nothing wrong with the music and no one type is doing any specific harrm. There is a flood of crap music but folks, seriously, when hasn't there been?

I have my personal preferences (see above rant) but it's all good in the final analysis. However, it's the whole concept of specialised clubbing and genre division that's slowing it down. There simply isn't a market everwhere for music to be as specialised as its becoming in dance clubs.

Maybe the next heros of electronic music will not be DJ's or producers but software programmers and electronic music with move largely out of clubs onto the internet wholesale. Maybe.

Much of the spectacle has gone from many clubs and it's going to take more than just music to pull off a good rave event. A lot of dance clubs these days are becoming small DJ/Producer showcases or in the case of bigger clubs they're mere DJ concerts where people are more concerned with the music than each other. Not really the best environment to have a rave as we know it. It's gonna have to be more than that in the future to pull a crowd.

Good dance music is everywhere, even in the charts sometimes and underground is readily available in mainstream clubs now so some extra effort really has to go into the show as a whole. Techno raves aren't just about the DJ or the music, it's about people having fun together and if it's just going to be a bunch of beard scratching anoracks analysing the music all night there going to be little to attract newcomers unfamiliar weith the music.

The best parties I've been to recently have been where there are performances and live visuals that relate to the music, If rave is going to survive then it's the events that have to step up a gear not just the music. It's just not good enough to just book a venue, stick up a banner and get Johnny Acid Pants or Jeff the Surgeon to come and play music everyone's making at home to whatever degree of comptenancy.

Even casual listeners are more dance savvy these days so it's going to take more variety and more attention to detail of the event to get them coming back.

Mr The Drummer is very much correct in his assessment that too many cooks do indeed spoil the broth but the tide has turned and there's no going back reaally. As technology advances and software becomes easier it will no longer be a major feather in ones cap to be able to make good techno as every man and the dog will be able to do it quickly and effectively. It's time to look around and see what else you can do apart from music to get the party rolling even if that means dropping your cool act, putting on a silly hat, painting your face and making a bunch of noise.
Even that's a start.

I'm very encouraged by the new ability live sequencing of visuals in Fruity Studio. Maybe we're all going to need a projector and our own visual stories to tell while as well as bangin out the repetetive beats.
12 inch Laser disc techno records with visuals beatmatched on them with two projectors attached to each deck?? That would be cool.

Anyways, I'm waffling now and have drifted into fantasy world.

Abandon Squirel!!

[Barely Human]

Intresting topic,

It seams its gone a little off topic now, but i thought id comment on the massive influx of new producers issue...

I think its a really exciting time for music we are living in now. With the availablity and cheapness of being able to produce a decent quality of music, we have plenty new, extremely talented producers coming onto the scene. I have never seen music styles change so fast. Tracks that came out last year sound so outdated, and the tracks of today will sound dated tommorow. It keeps getting quicker, and quicker. New style spawing from all over the place, some good, some not so good, all because we now have 1000% more people adding their own creativity into the big melting pot. Loads of producers pushing their game and trying to keep up with the rest. Its giving a lot of the old-school producers a run for their money.

More benefits come in from this influx aswell....

Because of the amount of people out there, and only so many nights to play at, people really push to play out! You can get international Dj's playing for Just flight costs. Its bringing the music back to what its there for, instead of the money grabbing bag of shit that its got itself into over the last 10 years of comercialisation.

[The Overfiend]

Henry has the most validated point.

[davethedrummer]

sorry
no more long posts
promise....

I’d just like to add to my last post that
This is why many kids nowadays are getting into rock and more traditional musical instruments again , because there is still a certain enigma about being able to play an instrument.

I tell you why ........because it’s bloody DIFFICULT!!
And it requires hours and hours of practice and effort and that’s before you can even play " baa baa black sheep "

Let me tell you , learning to play the piano is way more difficult than learning to use a computer sequencer….and speaking as someone who comes from a family of piano players and teachers and me being the one who didn’t learn but instead got into electronic stuff…….now THAT’S a regret !

Also I realise that my back is up against the wall as it is for everyone else
But I don’t have a problem with that.
It does get scary when you’ve based your entire life on being able to do this thing ( work a studio )and now everyone can do it at home on a laptop
But hell……I’m up for a fight........and i'll die with my boots on.

[Mindful]

Let me tell you , learning to play the piano is way more difficult than learning to use a computer sequencer….and speaking as someone who comes from a family of piano players and teachers and me being the one who didn’t learn but instead got into electronic stuff…….now THAT’S a regret !

Please no regrets Henry your one of the reasons most of these kids want
to get themselves a sequencer or some gear and learn how to make techno hopfully then they will become the ones that inspire the genarations after them and so on

[AcidTrash]

Let me tell you , learning to play the piano is way more difficult than learning to use a computer sequencer….and speaking as someone who comes from a family of piano players and teachers and me being the one who didn’t learn but instead got into electronic stuff…….now THAT’S a regret !

Please no regrets Henry your one of the reasons most of these kids want
to get themselves a sequencer or some gear and learn how to make techno hopfully then they will become the ones that inspire the genarations after them and so on

I'd have to agree with that. My best friend is a grade 8 pianist and it puts better dance tracks on sceen when he sneezes than most of the people I know and he doesn't even like dance music.

That Templehead D.A.V.E. TD live set IS the reason I play with techno.

[AcidTrash]

Henry has the most validated point.

Suck up.

[djshiva]

Let me tell you , learning to play the piano is way more difficult than learning to use a computer sequencer….and speaking as someone who comes from a family of piano players and teachers and me being the one who didn’t learn but instead got into electronic stuff…….now THAT’S a regret !

well, as someone who plays multiple instruments, i will say this:

while learning an instrument is difficult, and learning computer sequencers may sound easier, making a full interesting composition as well as learning how to make it SOUND good is not all that easy. with bands you may have multiple inputs on the composition of a song, as well as sound guys to do the dirty work for you. with sequencing, it's easy to throw some loops together and not so easy to make them internesting and well produced.

i think people are getting back into rock again basically because it has some TEETH and some excitement, whereas watching a dj or producer nod their head behind the decks or a laptop is pretty ****ing boring. i would like to see more djs/live pas actually get into their freakin sets, rather than stare at their respective intruments like a damn fishtank. not only that, but i would like to see a bit more thought and emotion in some of the techno out there as well. now there is some fantastic music coming out (i personally think techno is just getting better and better because of the influx of new blood), but so much of it just doesn';t grab me by the ovaries because i can't FEEL what went into it.

as for the "everyone has access to a studio" thing; i think it's bloody brilliant. it's like punk rock was in the 80's. sure there's a lot of crap because of it, but it's not relegated only to those who can afford thousands of dollars of equipment, or people who are insiders enough to have friends with studios. so new people are getting in there, making fresh tumes, and really challenging the old guard to step it up a bit, whichj i think is happening as well.

what can i say. i think techno has nowhere to go but up. and there will always be those who want to complain or place blame, but why waste your energy when you can instead just keep innovating and pressing forward?

[djshiva]

oh and p.s.

i have always said that the way the industry has worked over the last few years (for the most part you can't get lots of dj gigs unless you have records out) is one assurance that there will always be crap music out there. i personally prefer djing to producing (being out and performing versus sitting in a room all day staring at a sequencer), and fought for years against doing my own production, simply because i felt that what i had to say, i could say through my djing at that point.

i waited 9 years before producing because it was only then that i felt i wanted to make music again. i had gotten into djing because i loved the music, but also because i was sick of playing in bands and dealing with other people's egos and issues. so for me, djing was a breath of fresh air.

now that i have launched myself fully into making music, it is fun again, but overall i still prefer spinning records to the process of making them. and i wish that more people who are great djs could stand on those merits instead of pursuing avenues that they may not be as interested in or as good at. it's always smart to know where your talents lie, and to concentrate on those, rather than pushing yourself into areas that hold little interest.

[Komplex]

well said shiva.