A true pioneer?

[Esox Lucius]

kraftwerk definetly, although there are other artists who i think deserve it just as much like tangerine dream etc.

[gunjack]

dotcom is a pretty shitty label though...

I dare you to say that to Phil's face, and let me watch from a safe distance... that would be pretty funny.....

its been said. :roll:

subhead stuff is cool, but for me dotcom is really cheesey. and i know phil really cant stand me, and thinks i am talking shit, but i am just being honest.

[gunjack]

hey MH i didnt realize that was you... you know phil is back here in japan right? dude got him a new name :lol: anyway SIZE 9 was THE subhead jam for me. but when i listen to dotcom i feel like its real simple and kinda goofy...

phil had me round to his house a few times back in the day, but when he heard what i said about him and toby at tresor christmas party (said i felt the music was boring) a few years back he got pissed and never spoke to me again, i guess i dont blame him, but i am a frank guy, and if i didnt like the music, why would i say i did? s h i t, the guy told me str8 out when he didnt like my stuf.....

back on the subject though i think that it is impossible to attribute the evolution of techno to just a speceific group of artists.... there were endless factors leading to the music we have today.

[Sunil]

[quote="crime"Call me a tired old cynic, (and no disrespect to Lekebusch) but a lot of the loop stuff sounds like exactly what labels like Reload were doing much better 7 years ago.. Early advent used to really rock on this kind of tip around that time too, and yet they don't seem to be doing anything that different these days ....It seems to me like there's a techno formulae, and anything that steps out of this isn't accepted by a lot of people into techno... Didn't Jeff Mills say "Techno is sounds you've never heard before?".. I hear a lot of djs and I'm afraid to say, a lot of the time I just hear the same sound, again and again..
anyway *rant over*
[/quote]

Yeah but Lekebusch and co. make these records more as mixing tools than anything else, there is quite a lot of depth to his tracks and his attention to detail and programming(Drumcode 10 for example) has always been top standard. Out of all the Swedish producers Lekebusch's ideas have always been more out there than the rest, he can make a wide range of stuff and often incorporates many different styles of music into his tracks..

[crime]

Yeah but Lekebusch and co. make these records more as mixing tools than anything else, there is quite a lot of depth to his tracks and his attention to detail and programming(Drumcode 10 for example) has always been top standard. Out of all the Swedish producers Lekebusch's ideas have always been more out there than the rest, he can make a wide range of stuff and often incorporates many different styles of music into his tracks..

It still sounds like pure product than anything else, and I think the popularity of this kind of stuff is down to the fact that it's easy to mix.. Fair enough having dj tools, but you've got to have the skills to go with it, and to be honest it ends up with every dj playing the same records, trying to do the mills imitation or blending trax together which is pretty boring... How many different styles of music can you incorperate into a banging loop? And before you start saying "Jazz" and "Funk" I don't really think stealing a one bar loop really indicates any diversity.. I like stuff hard, but it's gotta be interesting, and have movement and change... I've always wondered this with loop records, why bother to cut a whole side when just a lock groove would have done...
This is why we've ended up with a scene thats just full of people who all want to be up there djing, whilst the people who were just digging the music have all gone home... Nothing wrong with wanting to DJ, but I wouldn't really say that any of the hard loop producers are doing anything that wasn't being done 5 years ago.... The real innovative stuff is probably pretty unpalatable to most techno crowds unfortunatly, some would say it's unlistenable, but you would have never heard anything that sounds like it before.. That's TRUE innovation...

[Adverse]

great post crime

[MARKEG]

crime for president :D

[herman]

something i always find a little strange with these kind of discussions is the complete lack of mention to any funk artist's even to someone as pivitol as james brown or george clinton , this is meant to be dance music after all isn't it?

[Sunil]

It still sounds like pure product than anything else, and I think the popularity of this kind of stuff is down to the fact that it's easy to mix.. Fair enough having dj tools, but you've got to have the skills to go with it, and to be honest it ends up with every dj playing the same records, trying to do the mills imitation or blending trax together which is pretty boring... How many different styles of music can you incorperate into a banging loop? And before you start saying "Jazz" and "Funk" I don't really think stealing a one bar loop really indicates any diversity.. I like stuff hard, but it's gotta be interesting, and have movement and change... I've always wondered this with loop records, why bother to cut a whole side when just a lock groove would have done...
This is why we've ended up with a scene thats just full of people who all want to be up there djing, whilst the people who were just digging the music have all gone home... Nothing wrong with wanting to DJ, but I wouldn't really say that any of the hard loop producers are doing anything that wasn't being done 5 years ago.... The real innovative stuff is probably pretty unpalatable to most techno crowds unfortunatly, some would say it's unlistenable, but you would have never heard anything that sounds like it before.. That's TRUE innovation...

I agree with you on your lock groove point, many loop techno records need to only hang around for about a quarter of the time they do. What you are missing here though is the subject of this thread which refers to innovators and Lekebusch has undoubtedly been an innovator to some degree. Whether he still is is another story, innovative would probably not be the word, although he still makes some very good records. The hard loop was dismissed in the same way five years ago as well but it's still here, no-one claimed that it's all innovative and just because Mills started something doesn't mean that we all have to say that's a Mills imitation, that's like saying that all dub music is just a Lee Scratch Perry imitation and that they should all move on. Mills just happened to be the creator of it that's all, some people now make good stuff, others make shit stuff, many producers though have evolved.

Let the people who innovate stand up and be counted then, and if the music becomes more palatable to the techno crowds then great, part of the resposibility lies with DJ's playing and pushing new styles of techno or with labels who are willing to support new styles of techno, the rest just lies with the crowds and if they are willing to accept it. Hard looped techno is probably more popular than it has ever been, and if people are into it you can't really argue with that...

[crime]

I agree with you on your lock groove point, many loop techno records need to only hang around for about a quarter of the time they do. What you are missing here though is the subject of this thread which refers to innovators and Lekebusch has undoubtedly been an innovator to some degree. Whether he still is is another story

Fair point

The hard loop was dismissed in the same way five years ago

I remember it being bigged up myself, as it generally is...

just because Mills started something doesn't mean that we all have to say that's a Mills imitation, that's like saying that all dub music is just a Lee Scratch Perry imitation and that they should all move on. Mills just happened to be the creator of it that's all, some people now make good stuff, others make shit stuff, many producers though have evolved.

Again, fair point..

part of the resposibility lies with DJ's playing and pushing new styles of techno or with labels who are willing to support new styles of techno, the rest just lies with the crowds and if they are willing to accept it.

Big up to Jerome Hill (Don't) on that tip, as a dj playing really good new sounds to people and playing them well...

Hard looped techno is probably more popular than it has ever been, and if people are into it you can't really argue with that...

Personally, I think popularity dosn't neccesarily mean something is good or innovative..

I suppose it's all subjective really, but, even as people can be innovative for their time, surely we should be looking to the future, not who innovated in the past....

[Sunil]

>The hard loop was dismissed in the same way five years ago

I remember it being bigged up myself, as it generally is...

We must have been reading different magazines :) although i'm referring more to interviews with certain producers as opposed to record reviews. The manner in which hard techno was dismissed then was the exact same as now..

Personally, I think popularity dosn't neccesarily mean something is good or innovative..

I suppose it's all subjective really, but, even as people can be innovative for their time, surely we should be looking to the future, not who innovated in the past....

I agree, Cliff Richard sang crap songs and people still liked him! Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, you are right. My point here is just a simple one really- people are still really going for hard looping techno regardless of whether it's innovative. In terms of looking back at who innovated in the past I think getting caught up too much in that is pointless, it doesn't really matter that much as most of these producers could be people you don't even listen to anymore, people who may not have any relevance in what kind of music you make today, their influence can often be overstated just because some journalists feel the need to cross reference every 5 minutes. Techno has been shaped by loads of people and there's loads of styles out there, as you said it's all subjective..

[gunjack]

We must have been reading different magazines

reading dance rags is a good way to stay confused 8)

[crime]

I suppose anyone who made music in their own way, got it released and affected some people is a pioneer in their own way...

[gunjack]

to be quite frank, this whole wonderlust about "innovation" is a little old.... i feel innovation is a myth. folks ALWAYS have to carve their own niche to get in where they fit in.... i subscribe to the notion that techno was found rather than founded.

[serox]

i still like what Acardipane was/is making is amazing. i think he is still ahead of many people when it comes to productions.


i eat this sh!t.

[crime]

i still like what Acardipane was/is making is amazing. i think he is still ahead of many people when it comes to productions.


i eat this sh!t.

Now your talking! Love the "Metal Man" thing he did with the Horrorist....

[Sunil]

i still like what Acardipane was/is making is amazing. i think he is still ahead of many people when it comes to productions.


i eat this sh!t.

Now your talking! Love the "Metal Man" thing he did with the Horrorist....

I don't know loads of his stuff, i know I probably should though. Have to say I was disappointed by his album on Tresor

[Buttman]

Who is Acardiplane?? Never heard of him/her/them/it.

[crime]

Marc Acardipane, the guy who runs PCP records, now renamed acardipane records (Is this the case? Correct me if I'm wrong)... really hard brutal stuff, they've been there since back in the day...

check: http://www.acardipane.de

[crime]

I don't know loads of his stuff, i know I probably should though. Have to say I was disappointed by his album on Tresor

You talking about the Mover album yeah? yeah, I think you gotta be really into that whole "Doomcore" style to get into the album, liked a couple of trax of it myself.... wouldn't have called it the most innovative thing I've heard, but, likesay, liked a couple of things on there...