My thoughts on why Hardstlye is in a mess at present...

[Hakka]

This is a post of mine from another board, but I felt I explained my feelings on what problems there is with hardstyle and why many people are unhappy with it or suddenly saying they don't like it!

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There is a big problem with hardstyle at the moment... and its funny to see (not here but in general) so many people who loved it when the word hardstyle first came about, are now running back to trance as if hardstlye was never any good.

The problem (well... what I think is the problem) is that there are not enough talented producers in the hardstyle world. Anyone can produce a tune, but to produce one that is fresh sounding, using new ideas or techniques in the layout and isn't a blatant rip off of old idea is a talented producer. In Hard Trance we've always had many good ones, Scot Project for example has always been at the fore front, as well as Shokk, Wavetraxx etc... these people ain't playing catch up on other hard trance producers releases... they are setting the standard. With Hardstyle, there was lots of opportunity at the beginging to be original as there was nothing to compare releases to. Now we have the entire amount of releases under the hardstyle name to date to compare a new release with. This shouldn't be a problem, but it is because there isn't enough top producers who are capable of producing those beasts of a tune that suddenly become the best of todays hardstyle sound. What we have is one or two great hardstyle tracks every 6 months and in between the next great hardstyle release you have all the hardstyle producing world copying, working to and stealing the ideas and brillance of the big producers work that has just come out.

Basically the hardstlye industry needs to rid of the wannabe producers who can't create anything unique. These people who probably mean well, are putting people off hardstyle. Nobody wants to hear ANOTHER tune thats using the same ideas and sounds that were used in the last 50 releases... Christ I don't even buy Dance Pollution stuff... I swear they find a random bird to shout something like "f*@! YOU... OH YEAH" and then just add your bog standard over compressed bass line that's been on nearly all other releases. What we need is sales for the crap producing work to fall, i.e nobody buying anything that is s*@!e (people do buy stuff they don't entirely like because they think they MUST HAVE TO BE up to date with tunes!). When a label sees that they can't shift s*@! work, they won't sign it up and press it. It will see a massive decline in the amount of hardstyle released, but a massive increase in good hardstyle being released. Or at least I think that. Look at SYS-X, about 4 releases? But all class... Dance Pollution? A million with about handful being ok to pretty good.

Hardstlye can be a very capable and appealing genre and I have many tunes which I feel are wicked and no doubt most of you here would like. However, it is easy to understand that peolpe will look at hardstyle and feel that the music is crap, and you are right... the majority of it is. It's a case that hardstyle needs to take a step back in order for it to be genre that is evolving steadily.

I'm not going to say I dislike hardstyle overall. That would be stuipd. Because you can't put a whole genre on trial for what some tracks are causing. If you like one hardstlye track, then there you do like hardstlye. It's just a case that hardstyle has lost its appeal because its in a complete mess evolution wise. If you took all the top producers out of hard trance (i.e uberdruck, shokk, scot project) then hard trance would be years behind it self.

Bah... err.. in answer to the original question, yes I do like Hardstyle. I even care about it enough to write up what I feel is the problem.

Rah Rah Rah.

[Hakka]

please post any reaction you have to this. I'm curious to see if people agree or disagree or whatever it is that you feel... its important stuff and its best to try and understand the situation the best you can... or at least thats how I operate.

[Voorheez]

I agree wholeheartedly. Personally for me hardstyle's end was apparent from the moment it became labelled as a genre, and stereotypical traits became associated with it that became a rule. When hardstyle was first recognised as a genre, and even before it was, producers were free to come up with their own ideas, and not be bound by the guidelines of a genre.

It was when it started getting popular that people recognised certain formulas that would work - like the Technoboy bassline, the Brain Ovulation distorted kick and the Zenith screeches. Because of this and (as Hakka points out so correctly) poor producers who are content to rip off others, the formulas became more and more set.

Unfortunately today, you can listen to hardstyle releases and know exactly what you are going to hear before you put the needle down, which means that the genre cannot evolve. There is fresh hardstyle out there, but people do not recognise it as hardstyle because it doesn't have the stereotypical sounds.

A new sound will come, but it won't be called hardstyle now, it'll be called something else. Hardstyle will forever be what it is now, which is why it's popularity will lessen still. A genre has to be forward moving, and the strict limitations enforced on hardstyle will stop this from happening.

Still, this is nothing new. It's happened with countless genre within dance music, and probably always will. Think back to the early 90's when there were hardly any set genres, and you will realise that classifying music into genres hampers it's freedom and originality.

[Hakka]

I agree wholeheartedly. Personally for me hardstyle's end was apparent from the moment it became labelled as a genre, and stereotypical traits became associated with it that became a rule. When hardstyle was first recognised as a genre, and even before it was, producers were free to come up with their own ideas, and not be bound by the guidelines of a genre.

It was when it started getting popular that people recognised certain formulas that would work - like the Technoboy bassline, the Brain Ovulation distorted kick and the Zenith screeches. Because of this and (as Hakka points out so correctly) poor producers who are content to rip off others, the formulas became more and more set.

Unfortunately today, you can listen to hardstyle releases and know exactly what you are going to hear before you put the needle down, which means that the genre cannot evolve. There is fresh hardstyle out there, but people do not recognise it as hardstyle because it doesn't have the stereotypical sounds.

A new sound will come, but it won't be called hardstyle now, it'll be called something else. Hardstyle will forever be what it is now, which is why it's popularity will lessen still. A genre has to be forward moving, and the strict limitations enforced on hardstyle will stop this from happening.

Still, this is nothing new. It's happened with countless genre within dance music, and probably always will. Think back to the early 90's when there were hardly any set genres, and you will realise that classifying music into genres hampers it's freedom and originality.

Tell you what, I never heard of Hardstyle until 2003, yet I was buying and loving records that I called Hard Trance which was hardstyle. Derb, Hennes & Cold, Merlyn... they were doing evil hard shit on labels like Tracid Traxx before the label got put out. One tune that will always be in my mind as so ahead of itself is Future Is Now. Now that is still more unique and original than anything coming out now and that tune is like 3 years old.

The label "Hardstlye" brought in the rush of attention and focus. It was suddenly under pressure to be constantly offering a fresh sound, that was JUST hardstyle. If it was still under the Hard Trance label, it would come out in drips and drabs and therefore not be under so much scruitney... and it would no doubt be wicked tunes as the poor ones wouldn't ever come to light.

Hardstyle tracks have the potential to be wicked, but its such a small spectrum, so refined a label that you can't have 20 releases a weak that are all good. The best of trance doesn't come out every week! But with Hardstyle if one track comes out bad it makes the whole genre look bad... so things need to slow down massively.

Let the quality tunes come with time... Hardstyle producers of the moment are firing in the dark with trying to keep fresh. It's only 1 or 2 producers over a few months that hits the target.

[MARKEG]

hakka, i feel everything you're saying. voorheez, you too.

before i start, let's all understand i've had a few drinks :)

i'm annoyed. and what i'm annoyed about is how such an amazing potential went horribly wrong. but even after saying that, i can't stop myself checking out every single hardstyle record out there. because i do, every now and then, stumble across something that is ground breaking. but only every now and then.

and i get annoyed too, having to listen to so much absolutely commercial crap to find these records. i NEVER had this problem with hard trance. sometimes i worry it's polluting my head having to sift through the crap. it's a nightmare senario. but i do it so i must see something in it.

hardstyle is a form of hard trance that has been bastardized beyond belief. the problem i have is this:

you play hard trance and it's nice. but i don't want nice for my whole set. i want face in the speaker avin it. you really have to search for the hard, hard trance records but they dont come and when they do come, they bloody rock. but they don't come very often.

ok so now put a hardstyle record on the decks after you've played you're banging hard trance record and it's like 'wow, this ROCKS!!!!'. but after two or three hardstyle records it's like, hmmmm.... where do i go from here? and to be honest, i'm totally board. why is this?

hardstyle has become a formula. and you know why? because most of it is made on a cracked copy of reason, perhaps rewired to cubase and using a shit load of samples. in fact, it's all based around samples. it all becomes 'digital'. it becomes a 'drone' of digital haze in your head. plus it's forumlated. which then makes it unbearable. sure it rocked at first but ..... you see my point???

NOW, this is the thing. hard trance used alot of digital (ie sampled) drums but the melody was always analog. you ask all the german producers. i suppose you could say that making hardstyle is like playing on your copy of musik for the playstation but making hard trance is like have a studio.

i love what the original producers of hardstyle did. but then i feel it became a massive formula that everyone was content to be a part of. until now - all the real ppl that care about where they've got to and love what they've achieved are like - DUH??? WHAT SHALL WE DO WITH OUR SOUND??? well i say, step back. hardstyle is actually ruined beyond repair IMO. PROVE ME WRONG!!!! but i think it's time for a change. time for a revolution in this sound. explore the analog in hardstyle. this is where you really will make a difference.

drone, drone, drone. same, same, same. this is the whole problem with human existance. it takes a big man to step up and be different but it takes a group of like minded people to really change shit.

hardstyle is just a step in the evolution of something really powerful.

stick with it but make the change.

[Yoshimitsu]

sorry i havent got the head on to make a big comment but i will say that you all make good points but i think its wrong to say hardstyles finished! imo its all a matter of time until something fresh comes along as with all genres. EVOLUTION! :lol:

[Hakka]

sorry i havent got the head on to make a big comment but i will say that you all make good points but i think its wrong to say hardstyles finished! imo its all a matter of time until something fresh comes along as with all genres. EVOLUTION! :lol:

The reason I think it can be said its finished is because the word Hardstlye is finished. If I tell people I like Hard Trance, they are cool with it... say Hardstyle, they are like "err... don't like that..." because they instantly make the conclusion that hardstyle is crap because there is so much crap being produced under the hardstyle name.

The name isn't important, the music that we here is... the next evolution of harder sound probably will be THROUGH hard trance again no doubt, being what we use to call hard trance before the hardstyle label came anyway! What ever happens, I will be waiting, listening and hoping its wicked.

Hardstlye can be too easily ID'd and explained by its formula of production... the best of hardstyle doesn't conform 100% to the typical hardstyle forumla, hence why they stand out and are so good. There is only so many things you can do with a formula, until we rewrite that forumla somewhere else...

;)

bah... hope this makes sense what I'm saying.

[Voorheez]

Yeah it makes sense m8.

Yosh, what I mean isn't that hardstyle won't evolve - I mean it will, but there will have to be a new name, because hardstyle is a strict formula. So hardstyle will finish, but something else will come from it.

[Jay M]

totaly agree with what yous are all saying, i for one also sit for hours surfing for the a good finfd and it becoming increasingly harder to find stuff which makes me excited. I think that the only way that thing are gonna change is for the people who are in a position to change it to stop churning out the same old shit and start thinking of the future in stead of tryiong to make a fast buck and cash in now, sadly though the cheesey and unoriginal stuff sell and as long as it does labels will continue to churn it out. Labels which i used to have a lot of respect for (naimng no names but we all know which ones) are now not even worthy of appearing in most of our record boxes.

[Bacchus]

i'd have to agree with ya'all here too. Even as a hardstyle DJ, i buy much more hard techno when I do my record shopping, because there's not enough good stuff being released.


Only the odd Groucho or Italian Masters of hardstyle seems to be innovative and doing somethign different.

[DJTrubass]

Well, i tend to try & avoid the bad tracjks & only buy or listen to tunes on lables of by artists i know will produce the goods, i think that although there is some pritty shit stuff out there, there are also some mind blowing ones else i wouldent still be listening to it. i just think everyone is waiting for something HUGE to come along that will change people views on hardstyle so there putting behind some decent tracks that are out at the mo.

Trubass

[Yoshimitsu]

Yeah it makes sense m8.

Yosh, what I mean isn't that hardstyle won't evolve - I mean it will, but there will have to be a new name, because hardstyle is a strict formula. So hardstyle will finish, but something else will come from it.

Ah i see.. is hardstyle not only a strict formuls because producers folllow it though? its not a written rule to stick to it. i still think theres scope for loads more variation in the genre, producers just seem to be narrow minded wen making it of late

[Voorheez]

Dana - Undelichkeit, Uberdruck's latest tracks, ASYS tracks, Scot Project's mix of Cockroaches - you wouldn't call those hardstyle, but for me I think this sort of track is the next evolution.

The Hennes & Cold bassline needs to go now, as does the distorted kick at the end of a bar - but if tracks drop these kind of things they are not hardstyle in most people's eyes. Of course they still are really, but with the stereotypical formulas that hardstyle has, they seem like they are not, so therefore a new name has to be made for this next evolution within the genre.

Haven't you noticed nowadays that a lot less unique stuff comes out as opposed to say a year and a half ago? This is because the formula becomes more rigid over time within any genre, people don't want to try anything too different when there is a proven method that works.

[Yoshimitsu]

This is because the formula becomes more rigid over time within any genre, people don't want to try anything too different when there is a proven method that works.

unfortunately m8 thats only too true

the tunes you mentioned though are exactly wot ive been liking of late so you could be right, although id be very dissappointed if nothin new happened in hardstryle as its a genre i still love, even though its been raped to pieces :cry:

[zigojacko]

i feel hardstyle is only just beginning... major potential as i think genre will rapidly improve and enlarge... :D

[Yoshimitsu]

dunno bout just beginning m8! its already become formulated which is a sign of a staling (is that a word?) genre

[zigojacko]

dunno bout just beginning m8! its already become formulated which is a sign of a staling (is that a word?) genre

no but stalling is... :lol:

yeh i guess mate..

i only really noticed it about a lot this year tho... and i know a lot more djs goin over to hardstyle... and its great ! - i dont think it will die... - i hope not

[Soundfixation]

for me Hardstyle lacks one major elementt! Meldoy, i dont like music without a melody, well most music. full trance breakdowns and riffs are what get me going and u can have hardstyle sounding trance - because that is were it originates from, trance/hard trance is my sound boom boom bloody boom all night isnt!

[Yoshimitsu]

for me Hardstyle lacks one major elementt! Meldoy, i dont like music without a melody, well most music. full trance breakdowns and riffs are what get me going and u can have hardstyle sounding trance - because that is were it originates from, trance/hard trance is my sound boom boom bloody boom all night isnt!

which is why i couldnt listen to just hardstyle all night! It has its place later in a night wen yiou just wanna stomp to some real sick music :lol: hard trance earlier on defo

[lukekendall]

for me Sam Punk (gladheadz) are producing some good stuff!!!

he is using a blend of hardstyle and hardtrance together and using that dark german effect to it :clap: which i love!! sort of dark marching music

for me he is always producing different stuff and is pushing things forward, as for other producers there are quite poor