Concensus on Ableton DJ sets? Surgeon, Ho, Cowie, etc..

[djshiva]

i'm pretty sure this is the right section of the forum, this isn't so much a production question as it is a question regarding what many techno djs/producers are doing these days.... forgive me if this is the wrong section...

so i'm wondering what is the concensus amongst the techno community regarding dj sets or "live remix" sets performed with Ableton Live?

Surgeon is doing it, Ho is doing it, i've heard Hawtin might be using Ableton for the next DE9 CD.
on a personal level, I know Adam Jay was using Ableton for live sets, and Final Scratch for DJ sets... started running them simultaneously, and now he's doing it all in Ableton, sort of like a "live remix" set. bits and pieces from his live pa cleverly mixed in with edits of other folk's tracks he made for final scratch. Being able to go from Monoid style stuff down all the way to 110bpm Dexter and Funkstorung, and back up to Speedy J smoothly, all tracks being specificly edited by him and mixed with his own live material - it seems to work for him.

What do you folks think? On the Ableton forum its quite a debate, you have folks that say DJing means beatmatching, folks that say DJing means making people dance, and folks that say so long as you are doing more with ableton as you could with turntables - its all good, in other words do it to its fullest no matter what you use.

whatcha think?

[webassassin]

i'm pretty sure this is the right section of the forum, this isn't so much a production question as it is a question regarding what many techno djs/producers are doing these days.... forgive me if this is the wrong section...

so i'm wondering what is the concensus amongst the techno community regarding dj sets or "live remix" sets performed with Ableton Live?

Surgeon is doing it, Ho is doing it, i've heard Hawtin might be using Ableton for the next DE9 CD.
on a personal level, I know Adam Jay was using Ableton for live sets, and Final Scratch for DJ sets... started running them simultaneously, and now he's doing it all in Ableton, sort of like a "live remix" set. bits and pieces from his live pa cleverly mixed in with edits of other folk's tracks he made for final scratch. Being able to go from Monoid style stuff down all the way to 110bpm Dexter and Funkstorung, and back up to Speedy J smoothly, all tracks being specificly edited by him and mixed with his own live material - it seems to work for him.

What do you folks think? On the Ableton forum its quite a debate, you have folks that say DJing means beatmatching, folks that say DJing means making people dance, and folks that say so long as you are doing more with ableton as you could with turntables - its all good, in other words do it to its fullest no matter what you use.

whatcha think?

I really don't care too much what people use as long as they put on a show that's not just someone standing there because when I think of a laptop, I think of school/office work, you know. The need to physically engage the crowd as well, a la showmanship is very integral.

On the other hand, I think that if you're going to use laptops and software, you would first have to learn to or be known to spin on tables first, hands down. For guys like Surgeon, Oliver Ho, and Richie Hawtin, it is known that they can spin on tables so moving on to laptops would be seen as a step up or a progression for them artistically and the audience will accept that more than someone just starting off with a laptop.

My 2 cents.

[Martin Dust]

Can I kill this one now with this:

As for the machines taking over, all the better. "We use tapes, prerecorded, and we play tapes, also in our performance. When we recorded on TV we were not allowed to play the tape as part of the performance, because the musicians' union felt that they would be put out of work. But I think just the opposite: with better machines, you will be able to do better work, and you will be able to spend your time and energies on a higher level."

Ralf Hutter, 1975

[Tyrisia]

I've looked at Ableton, and it's awesome - but I'd need about four different controllers to make it work properly. If u plonk each one a foot apart across the table in front of the laptop, there'd be loads'a jumpin about and interaction. It might even sound better than if you put them next to each other - maybe.

[SlavikSvensk]

i really enjoy ableton sets (and other kinds of live sets), if the person makes good music with their tools. unfortunately, a lot of the time, the whole thing is prearranged. in that case the show promoters might as well just put a mix CD on. however, i do like ableton sets when the performer throws things together on the fly.

at the same time, i have never seen a live PA of any kind that has captured the improvisational genius of the best dj sets i've heard.

[xfive]

On the other hand, I think that if you're going to use laptops and software, you would first have to learn to or be known to spin on tables first, hands down. For guys like Surgeon, Oliver Ho, and Richie Hawtin, it is known that they can spin on tables so moving on to laptops would be seen as a step up or a progression for them artistically and the audience will accept that more than someone just starting off with a laptop.

That's one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.
You're telling me it's ok to use laptops if you're established... but all of the up and comers must stick to vinyl??

Garbage. Sorry. If you put on a good show, people will realize that. It does not matter if you have ever touched a turntable in your life or not.
It doesn't matter if you are using Ableton Live, or a rack of gear... but please, if you're going to use a laptop, don't just stand there like a statue staring at the screen.

It's not the tools people, its the way that you use them. Talent shines regardless.

[GothamGrooves.com]

I have had many discussion about this, as a matter of fact I had the very same one with a kid I had just met at the surgeon party last night.. Here is my take on the while thing. doing a live show and spinning with dex ae 2 diff worlds. With dex you are not only showing your beat matching skills but making the 2 or 3 records "**** eachother" (quote justin schumacher) However at the same time thats all you are limited to. Now with something like ableton live the beat matching is done, so it is now up to the artist take come up with amazing manipulations, edits/ remixes of other tracks, and really just putting on an audio show that really could not be accomplished woth dex. On the other hand If you have some dude with a laptop, pressing play and just layering one beat or track after another, then thats just a waste of what can truly be accomplished.. in my opinion...


However I do not think it matters if the person started on vinyl or not. There are plenty of producers who don't "spin" but they have the creativity to put on am amazing show. I don't think they should be penalized at all.


Ash Davis

[Larney]

Best thing to happen in years!

[Tyrisia]

I think, possibly, that we're gettin back to the old "dj's can't dance" theory. If u're into what u're doin, why the hell not jump around like the crowd is doin? Alot of dj's seem to think that they need to look cool and somber like they have done it a thousand times before (or maybe they're just too old to relate to the crowd :lol: ).

The thing with Ableton is it's new and multifunctional, and you can put as much or as little as you want into an hour's worth of music. I've seen some pretty somber pictures of people using laptops (mouse in hand, staring at the screen etc), but I know if I was to get the oppourtunity to play a set of my own stuff with it (I personally wouldn't cut up other's stuff along with my own), I'd be jumpin round like a loon, regardless of how many controllers I'd brought or how I'd placed them :lol: .

As x-five pointed out - it ain't what u do it's the way that u do it.

[The Overfiend]

Doesn't matter which brush or pen is used,
as long as the painting is priceless.

[djshiva]

okay thanks for the debate and opinions folks.


Now the question evolves... would you call this on stage use of Ableton, DJing?

Not that it needs classification, but you know we live in a world that loves classifying such things. Is it DJing? Live Remix? Live Set?

[Tyrisia]

Depends entirely on how u use it personally.

[Internal Error Records]

I just saw Surgeon.
And I heard him.


He sounded awesome.
He looked lame.


We might as well put int one of his cd's and save the $$$.

But sound quality does count for something.

The problem is in Albeton DJ sets is there is no TURNTABLISM.

Ableton djs are another step closer to putting all DJs out of work.

[SlavikSvensk]

i don't think it's fair to call ableton live performers DJs unless they also spin records. better to call them performers, or musicians, or whatever.

there's room for both, i think.

[schlongfingers]

Can I request a 'spod' forum please Mr EG? for the spod topics?

[Internal Error Records]

Can I request a 'spod' forum please Mr EG? for the spod topics?

this is a real topic.

the question is the use of Ableton real djing?

[djshiva]

what the hell is "spod"?

[schlongfingers]

Can I request a 'spod' forum please Mr EG? for the spod topics?

this is a real topic.

the question is the use of Ableton real djing?

The answer is, ask the international musician nomenclature assignation society. You ain't gonna get a definative answer otherwise..

My personal opinion - DJ = Disc Jockey = Person who plays music to other people. The only reason it is called Disc Jockey is because pre-recorded music was only available on vinyl when the need for a name arose.

In terms of Surgeon being boring to look at, well, lots of DJ's are boring to look at - that's why they take up playing records to get girlfriends rather than dancing and talking like the rest of us :D joke!!

[schlongfingers]

what the hell is "spod"?

haha, i thought that juuuust after i posted it, then looked it up... it seems i was the victim of divine linguistic intervention.

[GothamGrooves.com]

Well a disc jockey only plays disc's vinyl or cd etc.. But the Term "DJ" has become widley knwon as the performer on stage playing the music. By "DJ" standards the cunt on the radio who doesnt even know how to mix just talks and press's play, and he is considered a "DJ".