Exploitation

[Barely Human]

Sorry to be negative, but i think this point needs to be raised.

Somone i know is running a small night. They dont have lots of cash, and just wanna put on good music for people. He has just tried to booked a certain Dj, and after explaining about the night, they then turned round and quoted him a ridiculas price for the booking. Needless to say he wont be able to book him at the price.

As a promoter myself, and knowing quite a few others, i know how much this shit goes on. And to be honest, i think its a total pisstake.

It doesnt make any sense at all. My point is this -

Dj's need promoters to keep earning. No promoters, no nights, no Djs.

Promoters cant always gaurantee they will make money, and as a lot of you will know, most of the time they dont, and end up out of pocket. How can someone be expected to put on a good night, with a good setup, good dj's, good promotion, and cheap entry when the dj's are chraging well over the odds?

In the end, its the wholde scene that suffers -

1. Because no-one can afford to put on decent nights

2. Punters are put off by the door price

3. Dj's get less places to play, hence potentially less income

I can understand that for some Dj's, this is thier income, and they need to live. That is totally understandable. But do they really need to exploit promoters to ridiculas prices that i could live off comfortably for a month? I can also understand that if you are running a big event, and stand to make a lot of money from it, the Dj is going to want a cut of it. But does that mean that the smaller nights should suffer? Why cant the Dj's work with the promoters for the better good of the scene? In the end, they will benefit from it.

I think a percentage would be a better way of charging than a fixed some. For arguments sake, lets say 10% of the total profits, and if you dont make **** all, then a small fee of x amount to cover costs and tide you over. That way the Dj is taking some of the risk himself, in the scene which has given him his livelyhood.

Final thought -

Isnt it all about the music? No? Well get the **** out then.

Sorry about the negativity, but i thought this point should be raised.

[alsynthe]

yeah man a very valid point. i was really gutted about all that, seems a shame that comprimises cant be made. and to be fair it aint just the dj's its also bookin agents who set there own fees ontop of the dj's.

[FUSION]

seriously tell me about it, most will compromise to the size of the night but some, and im thinking 2 people in particular, wont...... takes the piss really as at the end of the day no matter how famous I got I can honestly say that the money would always be secondary to the vibe and love of playing in front of loads of mad for it people ...... i some times even think that when u ask for a lower fee the dj`s think you are blagging them and want to make the cash yourself, when all your doin is avoiding paying them a couple of hundred quid out of your own pocket,,, really pisses me off

[dirty_bass]

I think to have an attitude where you don`t work with and support the people who are paying your wages is stupid.
I think it is better to deal with a booking totally on the size and budget of the event.
Obviously sometimes expenses and travel will make it not worthwhile.
But really to allow the smaller, underground clubs to establish themselves and get a good foothold, they have to be supported, as they will support us, the acts, in the future.
I`ve said this before, but we all need to support each other to keep this scene alive.
To get to the point where you are so exlusive only a few gigs a year can book you is just silly. And people will slowly find out that is the vibe you are putting out, and will think you are an asshole.

[Mirsha]

The thing is if they are willing to charge such a high price, then usually it's because someone somewhere is willing to pay it. But I know how you feel about this though, you just have to look at what Tresor is planning for their final few weeks.

Tresor have got in contact with all the guests who have been integral to defining Tresor as a club which stands a cut above the rest. Since they are talking about getting in a shit load of DJs and they aren't made of money they've offered everyone they want to attend to pay for flights, accomodation etc but have said they won't pay for the booking fee as that would likely tack on something like 50grand to their costs over a few weeks.

Apparantly whilst a lot of DJs have given a two thumbs up to this idea a fair few have apparantly said they won't play the gig without the fee with a surprising few in ther bunch.

[Obdurate]

At the end of the day its a bloody shame when dj's wont work with the promoters, and the way i look at it, it seems only a selected few seem to think they are better than the scene which gives them the right to charge ridiculas amounts, maybe there the dj isnt to blame for this, say u have an agency that runs somewhere in europe this is where these problems seem to lie whilst tryin to bring these names over to the uk there used to massive scale events just handing them stupid amounts of money so they have a secure booking for the artist.

Anyway if ur only in it for the money why the **** are you here at all ?


Peace People !

[gumpy green]

tell me about it, we run a night and are not preparred to charge over 6/7 quid entry....

we dont have huge funds for guests so ther have been some that i wont mention(youd be shocked if i told ya tho) that wont play for less than 7-800.


Now then ther are others who care about the scence and will negotiate to suit the night/buget.

so far the folk gettin my respect...

Dean rodell, dirty bass, sebastein marx, jeff amadeus, pzeko vrs 1qlp, technosis djs, pete donaldson(perpetual)., thomas shaw plus all the local lads weve had on.........100percent luv for the scene....please book em over these 700+ bods......and espesh over the rapists taking 2000 etc.

tell you this too--- most of our partys have kicked ass....if you do yer homwork you can run a night with better guests than just throwing ££££ at bignames..

[gumpy green]

and ill add-

dirty bass and dean rodell even came over and chilled with us for the weekend .....fri til sun..well good attitude, u get meet more folks in the scene outside a noisey club....seb marx is doing the same next moth.

others id reccomend booking that weve had-

jamie ball (turning pint 4x4)
sekonz(myself)
fuknut
morph livepa
morphos live pa
cymbol live pa
acid 69 live fast tekno
6tma
clone2
scsi fuker
stick 430.

and i can get you demos from all no sweat, you see ther as good if not better than alot...just give me a shout or get you mate to if hes needing guests for a fair price...

[FuK-NuT]

WORD....! :clap: :clap:

[SlavikSvensk]

i like the percentage idea, but i think some djs feel making less money is beneath them...kind of like professional atheletes who demand millions because someone else is making millions, meanwhile ticket prices soar...

sometimes djs do come through for the punters though...almost every time a big techno dj played in nyc when i lived there (cari, adam, richie, steve rachmad, etc.), you'd see them at tronic treatment a couple days later, initially for free, then $3 when they moved locations. of course this is likely because the djs are friends with christian smith...but it was still great for us...

[FuK-NuT]

cant stand haggling with agents, will always try and go to the dj/act direct
and see wot they have to say....when i get the "im so so's agent, they forwarded me your email u sent them" i 9xouta10 neva look at it again...

do not see the need for it in this game...

[Tony]

ok, a response FOR PURE DIPLOMACY AND DEVILS ADVOCATE side of things.

so you're a succesful dj, you've worked years at getting to play bigger and bigger places. then a promoter approaches you, and you can tell straight away that the night is small, poss often empty, in a town where no one cares about techno, and theres a high risk that you wont get paid, or if you do you'll feel like you're fleecing the guy out of money he doesnt have. due to the smallness of the night there might be a good chance things like transport and accomodation arent even on the agenda. it could be a foreign country and you could be left there not speaking the language and surounded by pilledup crowds of folks that wont stop shaking your hand when you just want to get out of there, with your 0 money and get home.

i'm sure most hardened djs have had many an experience like that, and dont wish to repeat it, despite the mystical 'taking the music to the people' approach, that doesnt pay the bills.

so, paradoxically, the ovecharging at the first hurdle from 'superstar techno dj-x' may have actually been the politest way of saying 'no, i'm sorry'.

i am purely playing devils advocate here, as i dont know all of the details. but most responses seemed on one side of the fence, and if theres anything i like its to try and see what the other side of any arguement is like.

reminds me of a pal who did visuals. loved his minimalism, and his visuals where the best I'VE EVER SEEN, and i've seen a lot! he got asked to play at a happy hardcore event, ...... pondered, 'have you actually seen the stuff i do' they had, but it would still have been very out of place .... so he asked for £750, they said no, but in turn their respect for him went up cos they knew he could actually demand that sort of amount.

any thoughts?

[The Divide]

I used to have a lot of respect for a certain big name DJ (who I wont be naming) until I knew how much was getting paid for his set. Now I have a lot less respect in that person as an individual but the same when it comes to achievements. I understand that people have bills, families to support and dreams to fulfil. But the figures I heard were downright greedy (imo)

One of the reasons I got into Techno (besides the music) was the attitude, it (at the time) felt like something which stood against the horror that has become popular/commercial music. It’s great that there are people out there who give a little more, yet there contribution isn’t really acknowledged by the average punter. Now that’s respectful shit. I also respect good promoters too as it breaks my heart knowing that a good night out can and does leave the promoter in debt. There promoters who are putting there life on the line, why not djs too? Afterall as far as the club scene is concerned neither can exist without each other

[holotropik]

It really depends on the local market.

If you got the numbers and infrastructure to support "the big names" then go for it - but if you aint then choose someone else.

Its a pecking order out there and its regulated by demand. It does get out of hand if people start being unreasonably greedy. If prices are unreasonable in relation to demand then you will see prices come down over time. (me thinks this is happening now).

Don't forget that some DJs/Acts will push up their prices to make them appear to be higher up the order - when they really are kidding themselves. There is really only a handful of DJs/Acts that are truley able to demand such figures - they are the ones who have immense respect and history (Hawtin etc) OR are more like pop-stars (Tiesto etc).

Here in Australia you HAVE TO price on relation to the gig and sometimes play free just to keep public presence.