Ok guys lets face it.

[Ginjin]

These threads always open a can of worms :lol:

[Francisco Scaramanga]

I can guarantee that overall sales, of all types of music, on all formats, everywhere in the world, are MASSIVELY down. Not just a little, but loads. But this doesent concern me, cause thats all to do with pop music being shit really. So there could still be room in there for say techno to be shifting more than years ago - but somehow I doubt this. I work in a major record store (they should really be called CD stores now though), and we used to get in a fair bit of techno on vinyl, including the odd really good release, now we dont even stock vinyl, and the only technoish CD's I can think of in the shop are a copy of Fear and Loathing 2, the Stacy Pullen fabric CD, and I think that might be it actually.

The dissapearance of all vinyl, and techno cd's, has all happened in the last 2 years by the way.

[The Divide]

On the commercial market…

I have done a bit of recent research on EMI and what’s been going on with its business structure and its recent fiscal problems. Download pdfhere if your interested.

Something worth pointing out

Where global music sales have reduced the actual overall consumption of music went UP. There are more people are listening to more music than before which is due to illegal downloads making music more accessable. Unless the way they collected this data is wrong or they fiddled it.

[The Divide]

I can guarantee that overall sales, of all types of music, on all formats, everywhere in the world, are MASSIVELY down. Not just a little, but loads.

35-45%

[Internal Error Records]

I can guarantee that overall sales, of all types of music, on all formats, everywhere in the world, are MASSIVELY down. Not just a little, but loads.

35-45%

quote your source

[dirty_bass]

Overall sales have gone down.
OVERALL sales, thats everything, not sales of individual sales of labels.
There aren`t really that many more labels, as loads have disapeared.

ok this has got to be put to an end

quote your source

what is your source for your information?

This is from conversations I have had with various distributers, artists, and label owners.
I`m not gonna put anyone in it by quoting directly.
Look into it yourself and you will see.
Why would I say any of this for fun?
I`m trying to point to the fact that we need to get ahead of the game here, personally, I don`t care if everyone goes down with the ship.
I would prefer people communicate and sort it out.

[detfella]

big shop i work at: (not much techno)

all sales have increased year on year (for past 7yrs i've worked there). music market still has growth over last couple of yeas but only a small %, the dvd market has exploded (games to follow apparently...tho i dont believe this). dvd now makes the most money in the store, when it used to be cds.

cd singles are now almost defunkt, most people won't pay £4 for 3 tracks when they can pay £10 for the full album.

vinyl sales have increased as well, but the sheer number of vinyl released nowadays (all genres) means we dont stock much techno anymore because there's not enough room. plus we send them all over to basement traxx ;) would be interesting to see if paul is willing to say how well sales are going

[Internal Error Records]

This is from conversations I have had with various distributers, artists, and label owners.
I`m not gonna put anyone in it by quoting directly.
Look into it yourself and you will see.
Why would I say any of this for fun?
I`m trying to point to the fact that we need to get ahead of the game here, personally, I don`t care if everyone goes down with the ship.
I would prefer people communicate and sort it out.

This is all good and noble. And Im not point fingers at you. But many people here think there own experiences and 'what they have seen' applies everywhere. This type of information can do more bad than good.

Maybe its my fault for being a business analyst, but i just dont see much 'fact' on this forum that is certifliable fact.

I would sincerly like to see an intelligent split between personal opinions and what people claim to be facts(even if they are facts in his/her own world).

[dirty_bass]

Talk to people, get the facts about the industry.
Your in the states right, you of all people should know the plummet of the vinyl industry

[Internal Error Records]

Talk to people, get the facts about the industry.
Your in the states right, you of all people should know the plummet of the vinyl industry

actually, as a professional, you have to ask if the person you are requestign information is qaulified to render an accurate appraisal.

the fact is. running a label is easy as hell. its just alot of work. alot of EASY work.

people think they are doing enough to get the job done, but get unsatisfactory results and then blame the industry.

so no, talk to a bunch of people who speak from their own experiences does not render an acurate appraisal of the state of the industry.

[Komplex]

Maybe its my fault for being a business analyst, but i just dont see much 'fact' on this forum that is certifliable fact.

So pepole who live this sh1t and report about what happens around them aren't allowed to state what they see, hear and experience as fact? Where do facts come from in the first place? The people who are there doing it and involved with the scene. Its up to you to weed out things that aren't relevant to you and your part of the world. This site is sort of a global gathering, theres people on here from many continents so what may be fact for someone in London may not apply to someone in Philly.

This isn't a corporate meeting at Sony, nobody is even getting paid for their time to post here let alone research things in depth to include quoted "facts" in their posts. Those doods at corporate labels probably make half of their sh1t up to please their bosses anyway! We don't need to please anyone here, some people probably even like to piss each other off ;)

[Internal Error Records]

once again. im not going to defend tha value of USABLE information.

enjoy your communal mis-information. good luck making important decisions with it.

[dirty_bass]

Talk to people, get the facts about the industry.
Your in the states right, you of all people should know the plummet of the vinyl industry

actually, as a professional, you have to ask if the person you are requestign information is qaulified to render an accurate appraisal.

the fact is. running a label is easy as hell. its just alot of work. alot of EASY work.

people think they are doing enough to get the job done, but get unsatisfactory results and then blame the industry.

so no, talk to a bunch of people who speak from their own experiences does not render an acurate appraisal of the state of the industry.

So talking to shops, distributers and label owners isn`t enough?
does santa have the answer then?

[Internal Error Records]

So talking to shops, distributers and label owners isn`t enough?
does santa have the answer then?

ok ok. im not hear to bash individual experiences. and yes talking to these organizations is very good for getting THEIR information.

but i would like to see people stop aplying their expeirences to the whole world.

this forum is a global community. and from my first day here i have preached that the techno scene is banging and doign very well. but, thats my experience.

[dirty_bass]

So talking to shops, distributers and label owners isn`t enough?
does santa have the answer then?

ok ok. im not hear to bash individual experiences. and yes talking to these organizations is very good for getting THEIR information.

but i would like to see people stop aplying their expeirences to the whole world.

this forum is a global community. and from my first day here i have preached that the techno scene is banging and doign very well. but, thats my experience.

Yes but to appraise any situation then you collate as much information form as many sources as possible so as to get a good average.
THEIR information as you put it, when applied as a whole, is THE information.
Who else do we talk to, encyclopedia salesmen?
bus drivers?
I fail to see your point.

[The Divide]

I can guarantee that overall sales, of all types of music, on all formats, everywhere in the world, are MASSIVELY down. Not just a little, but loads.

35-45%

quote your source

Enders report, ‘Piracy – Will it kill the music industry?’ concluded that “digital piracy cost about 35-40% of the reduction in the size of the global music market last year”. Enders Analysis – Europe March 2003

Its in the pdf I just posted. See pdf page 11 onwards (sourced in the footnotes)

Ill post some of them here...

Edison Media Research - Survey found that the heaviest downloader’s have the most negative influence on sales. Among those who have downloaded more than 100 files, roughly 16% of respondents, CD purchases dropped 61% from last year. A year ago heavy downloader’s purchased an average of 28.9 CDs a year versus the current average of 11.3 CDs. - Edison Media Research – May 2003

Global music sales fall by 7.6% in 2003 – some positive signs in 2004
• Global music sales down for a fourth consecutive year
• Illegal file-sharing hits markets internationally
http://www.ifpi.org – the recording industry world sales April 7, 2004

Even company looses at the MCPS and PRS society...

However the combined effects [for company losses] of:
Flat or falling audio-product volumes in the UK and continental Europe
Flat or decreasing dealer prices
Lower service income in(..)
Lower interest income(..)
Have put considerable pressure on the MCPS’ financial possition - MCPS newsletter – Sandra Cox, executive director

There has definitely been a decline in sales within the commercial market. As for techno, I wouldn’t know where to find the info but I would say its more than just a spreading out of sales over loads of smaller independent labels. Why? Because when I was young I knew loads of people personally out every weekend spending about 40-80 pounds on new records. Everything was new and exciting. Now I don’t see as many young people into it nowadays. You look at the crowds in Leeds and generally speaking it’s mostly the people who were into it 5 + years ago without as many new faces. Surely if the distributors are going down then its a sign that they aren’t moving as many units as they should.

However, the global markets picking up again both in CD sales and legitimate music downloads. See google for more

[Sunil]

There are very little official facts or figures you are going to attain on the record industry and its sales, most of them are not specific enough and few of them are ever very up to date. The best information is usually the off the record stuff from distributors or shops, as that's the most accurate and up to date stuff.

Three years ago I was in the planning process of starting a distribution company, however within a short enough time I realised what a bad idea it was. For my market research I had to get my facts and figures of how other distributors were doing, how much they sold etc. It was at this stage of the game that I realised what a brick wall I was up against in terms of getting proper statistics back. Here in Ireland there were little recorded statistics on record sales, in fact the best study I could find was an overall chart of annual CD sales in Irish shops over the last 3 previous years, which was pretty useless to me.

My next step was to speak to distributors in Ireland and find out some figures but they were generally very guarded on giving out information on anything relating to their business or even vague indications of unit sales. In one sense I suppose they could have viewed me as a potential competitor in the future, however if sales or business were in as high a position as, say 3 years previous.. then I'm sure the unwillingness to divulge information would not have been so strong. I think this kind of thing is pretty much across the board, no-one wants to go opening their mouth when things are tight, and there's not a whole lot to be shouting about anyway. Likewise any of the independent or government bodies set up to do studies or offer information on the industry, weren't very helpful.. the simple facts were that no-one had been commissioned to do studies and of the ones that were being carried out, not much co-operation was coming back (apparantly) from the relevant sources or businesses.

Upon shelving my idea of distribution, I have instead worked in a record shop for the last three years. In that period I've noticed a marked drop in sales, not just in techno.. but across the board, right into other forms of music and into the CD market. I hear lots of facts and figures from other distributors, shops, labels and so on and none of it sounds particularly healthy at the moment.

With regard your average punter coming into the shop, few of them actually buy in bulk anymore, many of them are only looking for particular records or producers and are unwilling to accept anything else (mainly Picotto/Fergie techno converts), and others again just aren't into it anymore.

2005 has been a dreadfully slow year for releases so far, however I don't see this as a bad thing, maybe it means that some people are thinking a bit more about what they put out, and maybe other labels are just realising they can't make much money at it anymore.

[interferron]

mp3 is wack sound quality.

I just have to comment on that, which in my opinion is just something people seem to keep repeating without even bothering to check the facts (that is: listening for yourself).

There are so many different ways and settings when encoding MP3s that you cannot just generally say "MP3 is wack". I've started to convert my vinyl records to MP3s and used a whole lot of time investigating different encoders and possibilities, using Genelec studio monitors and high-quality headphones to A/B compare the original vinyl sound versus high-quality MP3 sound when done properly. I decided to go for LAME for encoding using Variable Bitrate MP3s which average at 256kbit/sec and go as high as 320kbit/sec when needed, and really I can't hear any difference between the digital file and the original vinyl at home or when playing PA.

Point: there's no single "MP3" format, some encoders and lower settings are wack, but it can be used to procude high-quality files.

[TechMouse]

Point: there's no single "MP3" format, some encoders and lower settings are wack, but it can be used to procude high-quality files.

Then there's the Ogg format...

Not so widely supported, but allegedly "better".

I can't really comment as my speakers aren't good enough.

[RDR]

interesting opinions. i dont know whats right and what isnt.

Ill ask my mates who run a record shop how sales are. they sell vinyl exclusively.

i personally hope vinyl doesnt die out. its ace.