Everyone Has Gone Digital?!

**dirty_bass** · 10-04-2005, 02:36 AM

Well that`s the point.
We sit in limbo right now
Vinyl is dying, but everyone still clings to it.
Piracy is rife, everybody has a god damn ipod these days etc
CD mixers with full platters are still establishing themselves in the market.
No one knows what to do.
Record distribtuion is a sham affair, with tussles over terrortory and some countries just not covered at all.
Stagnation both with the business, and to be honest, with the music for the most part, isn`t helping.

**slavestudios** · 10-04-2005, 02:57 AM

i dont care what format it is..

if its a rockin 12, bang on..
if its a rockin cd, bang on..

one thing i CANNOT have is ppl stealin material & distributing it via Sloulseek etc..

and ppl who turn up with Reason on a laptop, press play on a sequenced track then claim 'live set'

look, from what ive read, vinyl has one vital component which comes from a by product of the oil business.. due to the US of A and its lil tantrum, this by product will no onger be finacially viable come 2010..

do, according to this... we're buggered..

**dirty_bass** · 10-04-2005, 03:05 AM

well, vinyl can be recycled.
But recycled vinyl tends to be more brittle, and you get impurities that cause bubbles and stuff.

**slavestudios** · 10-04-2005, 03:19 AM

ive got a few Trax 10s & 12s.. i know all about it lol

sure all thpse pop remix 12s in charity shops can be melted down again i guess lol

**slavestudios** · 10-04-2005, 03:20 AM

but then again, who knows what the future & technology brings..

we didnt see LIVE comin, so who knows whats around the corner :lol:

**Ritzi Lee** · 10-04-2005, 08:14 AM

I think i'm gonna sign with these guys:
www.dance-tunes.com...
It's like a digital recordstore / mp3 downloading...

But i'm also still going to do vinyl pressings.

Anyway, with this output I can make more exposure
to do digital mp3 releases, besides vinyl releases.
No overhead times, and cheaper!

**OriginalTechnobastard** · 10-04-2005, 11:10 AM

I agree with whats been said about the fatness feel of vinyl. You can`t compare the sound from cd that to a vinyl

! Lets be real here. We all heard vinyls and cds. Cds just sound flat compare to vinyls. It might look more expensive and have its advantages, but vinyls(more classy look

) in terms of sound vibrations to your ear, just sound better. I really don`t understand why people would try to argue otherwise

! Hmmmmmmm

**Ritzi Lee** · 10-04-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by OriginalTechnobastard

I agree with whats been said about the fatness feel of vinyl. You can`t compare the sound from cd that to a vinyl

! Lets be real here. We all heard vinyls and cds. Cds just sound flat compare to vinyls. It might look more expensive and have its advantages, but vinyls(more classy look

) in terms of sound vibrations to your ear, just sound better. I really don`t understand why people would try to argue otherwise

! Hmmmmmmm

That really depends on the quality of vinyl m8!
I've also heared a lot of bad pressings.
And believe me, there are more bad pressings then good ones....

**Heroes** · 10-04-2005, 02:28 PM

the thing is the only reason mp3 came about was not due to its purity in sound thats for sure, it came about becuase of the size of storage around at the time and the internet speeds. it was popular and surfaced when 40 gig hard drives were considered the nuts and bt isdn 128 was the fastests residential conection. now computers rarely ship with less than 120gig, ipods can be bought in 60gig and the average residential connection is between 1mbit - 4mbit, unless you live in sweden of course, and if thats the case you can benefit from residential connections ranging anywhere between 8mbit - 28mbit. I give mp3's 5 more years max. the thing i love about the vinyl apart from its sound is the availabilty to keep piracy down to the minimum thus ensuring i get paid in full for my work....if thats a crime not to want the digital age then so be it. But all you people who dont depend on selling records to put food on the table have to think for a second, how would you feel at the end of a long hard week the boss turned round and said i know ya done sixty hours but heres the money for 15 of those? what iam trying to say is id like to get paid for what i do, the current state of technology + attitude + internet wont allow that, the piracy is too ripe to allow it, thats where vinyl and the record deck works for me because it keeps piracy to its utmost lowest, is it selfish to have this attitude? no i dont think so...

**The Overfiend** · 10-04-2005, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee

Originally Posted by OriginalTechnobastard

I agree with whats been said about the fatness feel of vinyl. You can`t compare the sound from cd that to a vinyl

! Lets be real here. We all heard vinyls and cds. Cds just sound flat compare to vinyls. It might look more expensive and have its advantages, but vinyls(more classy look

) in terms of sound vibrations to your ear, just sound better. I really don`t understand why people would try to argue otherwise

! Hmmmmmmm

That really depends on the quality of vinyl m8!
I've also heared a lot of bad pressings.
And believe me, there are more bad pressings then good ones....

return on investment put some dollar into it and this wont or shouldnt happen

**dirty_bass** · 10-04-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by OriginalTechnobastard

I agree with whats been said about the fatness feel of vinyl. You can`t compare the sound from cd that to a vinyl

! Lets be real here. We all heard vinyls and cds. Cds just sound flat compare to vinyls. It might look more expensive and have its advantages, but vinyls(more classy look

) in terms of sound vibrations to your ear, just sound better. I really don`t understand why people would try to argue otherwise

! Hmmmmmmm

Dude, that`s just opinion.
I run a very good soundsystem, along with my mate who runs an even phatter and better rig, who is part of our collective
And play for play, the same tune, on CD (original master) and vinyl
CD sounds better.
Clearer
Deeper
Crisper.
Frequency response on CD is just better. Fact,
Yeah you get that added bit of warmth on vinyl, but if a track has been mastered properly on CD, then that`s not an issue.

Most techno is mastered on a digital medium
Then transferred to vinyl
Then played through digital signal processing (that most soundsystems use these days)

Sound quality isn`t really an issue at all any more

**crime** · 10-04-2005, 10:24 PM

happy with vinyl myself personally, I think it sounds fatter myself, and especially notice it when I've cut records from cd to vinyl, great feeling when you hear the test cut for the first time, but each to their own eh?

**dirty_bass** · 10-04-2005, 11:06 PM

Yeah, there is something more tangible about having a big black pizza with your grooves on, admittedly.

**Internal Error Records** · 10-04-2005, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by tocsin

Is there some reason why you need to limit releases to one medium? This is what I find inherently bullshit about the "prove it" comments. Sell records, sell CDs and sell MP3s. If you can find mp3s of your releases floating around, there is your proff that there is a demand for mp3s of your label's music. You can give it a whirl or, like so many others, you can play catch up when other labels have established such a practice and become a go to point for other people looking to do the same.

HI Low-Key,
Good to meet you last night at the DDR show. (he rocks)

Like you just said, releasing on multiple medium is probably the best idea if a label can afford it. A problem inherint with dance labels is severe poverty. Like a label has to choose between one medium or another. But I do agree with you. I would happily spend $990 on 1000 retail ready cd's if a distro placed an order for "ier-003 - 500 12", 900 cd" we'll see if that ever happens. . .

**MARKEG** · 11-04-2005, 01:46 AM

Let's get this straight. CD's put a top end on your tracks that vinyl just cant do. But vinyl, puts a bottom end on your tracks that CD's cant do.

So what's best?? Who cares as long and the music goes forward. Aphex Twin ala 1992 is some of the best music I ever heard but the top end is shite compared to these days.

And here comes in Hereos point. If you're a producer, you need to put food on the table if you're involved in this shit 24/7. So ppl like Hereos and anyone who's soley a techno producer need an income off this. We're not being gready, we just need to put food on the table. Techno at the mo doesnt allow for this without SERIOUS SERIOUS hard work. MP3 is killin artists like Hereos, and me, and anyone involved in techno. Be honest.

So then how does something innovative come out of something that doesnt allow ppl to survive or buy the equipment that the damn commercial software or hardware industry has thrown upon us musicians???

F it, take it to grass roots level, we all need to stop being TWATS and be able to make a little bit of cash from our records. Have we not got the intelilligennce to do this or are MP3's gonna make us bow down and submit. F That.

**dirty_bass** · 11-04-2005, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by MARK EG

Let's get this straight. CD's put a top end on your tracks that vinyl just cant do. But vinyl, puts a bottom end on your tracks that CD's cant do. ?

Erm if you check the frequency response, CD actually has better bass too.
As you have to roll off the bass at the cutting stage for vinyl (and you can`t have a wide stereo bass field etc) due to the needle not beeing able to handle the bass vibrations.

It`s kinda being pedantic really.
The point is, I think we need to get on top of the new mediums, before they get on top of us.
And yes piracy is a huge problem, but really, what the hell can we do about it?
It`s basically allways gonna be there, and is an issue of morality. So until people are educated about the harm they are doing with piracy, we are all up the pooper.

**MARKEG** · 11-04-2005, 01:59 AM

ok, i'm up for anyone telling me i'm wrong but i truly believe that the bass end of cd's sounds shitter than vinyl. anyway, f that, let's get back to the real shit. what are we gonna do about this??

**Internal Error Records** · 11-04-2005, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by MARK EG

ok, i'm up for anyone telling me i'm wrong but i truly believe that the bass end of cd's sounds shitter than vinyl. anyway, f that, let's get back to the real shit. what are we gonna do about this??

its no secret that im personally obsessed with vinyl. but i'll concede that i would press cd's as well as vinyl if a distro would order them. in return i would like to hear the mp3 fanatics concede that mp3's are not a profitably viable medium.

**Komplex** · 11-04-2005, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by MARK EG

f that, let's get back to the real shit. what are we gonna do about this??

Set up an online techno distribution centre that deals with all formats. Vinyl, CD, and if people want mp3 (which I don't really like either).

A network that makes it easier for people to access artists and labels worldwide and get music in the formats which they want (or which the lables have available)...

Even if its just a searchable database thing with links, info, contacts, outlet locations or urls to online shops. It would be a step in the right direction.

I'm sick of the vinyl vs/digital recordings argument. Its as stupid as analogue vs digital studio/synths arguments.

**crime** · 11-04-2005, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Frequency response on CD is just better. Fact

well I just found this at http://www.badenhausen.com/VSR_History.htm

Nowadays, high performance calculation techniques and electronic components allow the design of high accuracy phono pre-amplifiers that are guaranteeing a frequency response of 10 to 25,000 Hz at a linearity of ±0.1 db, and a THD factor of less than 0.001%. The S/N ratio, of special importance for digital audio, can be easily hold at nearly 100 db by High-Tec semiconductors.

If I'm not mistaken CD audio specification goes no lower than 20hz, in which case the frequency response on vinyl actually goes lower (I could be wrong although I'm pretty sure)
Anyhow, I stumbled across another page of interest, which contains some pretty simelar arguments as what is going on here, this time between Audiophile types, check it: http://alcor.concordia.ca/~kaustin/c...rent/1364.html

At the end of it all though, I don't think everyone is going to stop buying records just because a few types in miami have "Gone digital" so to speak..

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