educate me please, because i really cant find anything wrong

[Paul Zykotik]

Maybe it's just the Edinburgh thing leaking through, as it's such a small city and it's quite scary how everyone knows each other.

The world's largest village ;) It was funny how you could chat to someone and link them to someone you knew within seconds.

But I agree with you, that's part of what made the scene up there so good, and it can apply to just about anywhere. The big parties in terms of scale, production etc can be quite impressive at first, but as you get older that becomes much less important. The vibe at smaller parties is much better - you'll speak to someone and you'll see them again later on in the night, and the next week, and the next and so on.

As far as techno itself goes, most people get bored of their passion at some point in their life. I don't believe it's better or worse than what was there before, and I've heard a fair bit of pre 96 stuff. It's easy to look back and think how great it all was then, but there was probably just as much tat coming out in those days as there is now. Certainly everything seems more innovative when you first get into techno, because you've never heard anything like it. Then as you hear more and more you realise that not every track is a groundbreaker.

If people aren't enjoying it as much, they should take a break. That's what I've done with techno for the last couple of years, and coming back into it now I'm hearing some stuff that has reawakened my love for the sound. There's no point sticking with something and bitching about it all the time - just go and find something else you enjoy, otherwise your passion will become moaning.

[crime]

there were a lot less producers back then, you have the same producers in existance now, plus the people that copied them, plus other new people who have done good new interesting stuff who got lost in all the plagurism.. it is fact that there are more labels and more people producing records than ever with less and less people to buy them..
another thing I might add, is any music sounds great if your out of your head on e, how many people here are truely listening subjectively (just a question mind)
Don't get me wrong, I do hear stuff sometimes these days that turns my head, but it's a lot more few and far between now for me personally... I'm happy with my own music and other good stuff I hear, just sick of having to wade through half baked dross...

[crime]

As far as techno itself goes, most people get bored of their passion at some point in their life. I don't believe it's better or worse than what was there before, and I've heard a fair bit of pre 96 stuff. It's easy to look back and think how great it all was then, but there was probably just as much tat coming out in those days as there is now. Certainly everything seems more innovative when you first get into techno, because you've never heard anything like it. Then as you hear more and more you realise that not every track is a groundbreaker.

Yeah, the point about losing passion is true, but I really don't think there's as much groundbreaking stuff coming now..
when was the last time we had an album like Beltram's "Places", Vogel's "Absolute time" or The Advent's "Elements of life"? not for a long time methinks

[robin m]

But I'm not a cynic, so I won't say anything. :)

...yep, you sure are known for your quiet retiring nature! :lol:

I only pretty recently 'got into' techno as opposed to bouncing round as just another munted punter, and it seems to me that if you love a particular form of music enough to get into it in a big way you're always going to have a rose tinted view of that sound at that point in time...

In 5 years time or whatever that sound will doubtless have changed and developed, and the people getting into it then will be just as enthusiastic as you were when you discovered it back in the day... but however good the more recent sound is it'll never be as exciting and new and inspiring for you who's been in the scene watching it develop as it is to someone who's new to it all.

Basically things always seem better when you're new to them (apart from sex and morris dancing maybe!) ;)

[Paul Zykotik]

there were a lot less producers back then, you have the same producers in existance now, plus the people that copied them, plus other new people who have done good new interesting stuff who got lost in all the plagurism.. it is fact that there are more labels and more people producing records than ever with less and less people to buy them..

another thing I might add, is any music sounds great if your out of your head on e, how many people here are truely listening subjectively (just a question mind)

I think the majority of people on here are those who love the music whether it's in the club or not. That means they'll listen to it just as much, if not more, while straight than while off their trolley. I agree there is a great deal of monotonous rubbish out there, but I also believe that something doesn't have to be groundbreaking to be a damn good record.

I would also dispute that anything sounds good while you're out of it, but that's by the by ;)

Don't get me wrong, I do hear stuff sometimes these days that turns my head, but it's a lot more few and far between now for me personally... I'm happy with my own music and other good stuff I hear, just sick of having to wade through half baked dross...

Does something have to be innovative for you to enjoy it?

[schlongfingers]

if you had eggs for breakfast every morning would you get bored?

[Paul Zykotik]

if you had eggs for breakfast every morning would you get bored?

I meant it as a personal question.

The simple thing to do would be to not have eggs every morning, even if they're what's most readily available. Search for that bit of bacon or some pancakes, just don't write off eggs entirely ;)

[crime]

Ok, something doesn't have to be neccesarily "innovative" for me to enjoy it, just interesting, i.e. of interest to me,I mean I like chicago stuff on a "party" tip, that's not neccesarily innovative, just not so predictable, and I find so much music these days is so predictable.. I mean I got an e-mail the other day from some guy who was asking me why I didn't arrange my tunes with the changes on the 16th, 32nd or 64th bars, and how he had trouble mixing them, and for me I just though "learnt to dj properly" and this is the problem at the moment.. really predictable stuff sells because it's easy to mix, therefore anyone can sound good as a dj (in a technical sensse of being able to beatmatch, which isn't really any great shakes, and this is not my personal train of thought by the way), and I'm sure there are people around who buy records purely on the "mixability" and whether it sounds "Pumping" on a rig, rather than if it is actually an interesting tune, this has had the knock on effect that stuff that strays from the"Techno" norm doesn't sell as well as the billion loop tunes that are all very easy to mix together but arn't saying much, and we end up where nothing stands out..
well, this is a personal theory, I mean each to their own, if people are happy with that , fair enough, if they're getting enjoyment, but I do feel there was a higher percentage of interesting records coming out 9 or 10 years ago compared to now...

[crime]

I would also dispute that anything sounds good while you're out of it, but that's by the by ;)

well, not anything, but I do know from personal experience on nights out a while ago it's easier to get into shit music just on a level of having a good night out if you're not digging the music if you've had a pill, you can't deny that..

[Mirsha]

Yeah definately, I've been out a few times to nights that have musicaly wise not been the best but once you get some chemcials down you you can just stop not enjoying it and just get into it. There has only been a few instances of me not enjoying the music enough to get into it even whilst getting rubbered and ending up just bouncing about people chatting with them all night instead.

[Paul Zykotik]

Ok, something doesn't have to be neccesarily "innovative" for me to enjoy it, just interesting, i.e. of interest to me,I mean I like chicago stuff on a "party" tip, that's not neccesarily innovative, just not so predictable, and I find so much music these days is so predictable.. I mean I got an e-mail the other day from some guy who was asking me why I didn't arrange my tunes with the changes on the 16th, 32nd or 64th bars, and how he had trouble mixing them, and for me I just though "learnt to dj properly" and this is the problem at the moment.. really predictable stuff sells because it's easy to mix, therefore anyone can sound good as a dj (in a technical sensse of being able to beatmatch, which isn't really any great shakes, and this is not my personal train of thought by the way), and I'm sure there are people around who buy records purely on the "mixability" and whether it sounds "Pumping" on a rig, rather than if it is actually an interesting tune, this has had the knock on effect that stuff that strays from the"Techno" norm doesn't sell as well as the billion loop tunes that are all very easy to mix together but arn't saying much, and we end up where nothing stands out..
well, this is a personal theory, I mean each to their own, if people are happy with that , fair enough, if they're getting enjoyment, but I do feel there was a higher percentage of interesting records coming out 9 or 10 years ago compared to now...

Okay, cheers for the response :) I agree there's a great deal of predictable music out there, and I also agree that something has to be interesting to grab my attention. Certainly I don't have time for the looped stuff to the same degree that I used to.

As for the sweets, no denying that either. They can make mediocre music sound very good indeed.

[TechMouse]

apart from sex and morris dancing maybe! ;)

Or both at the same time...

[OriginalTechnobastard]

I think it's a fair argument, if you look back at 92-96 and the techno releases in those years, 60-80% of releases were standout tracks that still kill the dancefloor now. These days it's 5-10% if not less that will even go so far as to make me move my left ass cheek. I don't think I'm jaded, I just feel that those years were where the real experimentation was foraged, and that these days innovation is extremely rare - in most cases it's been done before.

These days too many people have taken existing productions as a benchmark, when in reality, what really moves both a dancefloor and a investigative mind is the sound that is new, which gets rarer and rarer.

list please

[tocsin]

I think it's a fair argument, if you look back at 92-96 and the techno releases in those years, 60-80% of releases were standout tracks that still kill the dancefloor now. These days it's 5-10% if not less that will even go so far as to make me move my left ass cheek. I don't think I'm jaded, I just feel that those years were where the real experimentation was foraged, and that these days innovation is extremely rare - in most cases it's been done before.

These days too many people have taken existing productions as a benchmark, when in reality, what really moves both a dancefloor and a investigative mind is the sound that is new, which gets rarer and rarer.

Just a quick question. Is there any chance that those tracks sound "better" or still "kick a dance floor" because they are attached and related to good memories of your's?

[Internal Error Records]

Just a quick question. Is there any chance that those tracks sound "better" or still "kick a dance floor" because they are attached and related to good memories of your's?

excellent question. any cynics should ask themselves that. :clap:

[crime]

Just a quick question. Is there any chance that those tracks sound "better" or still "kick a dance floor" because they are attached and related to good memories of your's?

I'm with Schlongfingers on this, no it's not neccesarily the case, I've been viewing the scene from a fairly objective viewpoint for the past 10 years (i.e. being a DJ for pretty much all that time, 7 years producing, and pretty much all the time not really doing any drugs apart from smoking and drinking a bit), and I would say that there was a higher rate of decent tracks back then, right now the market is flooded with toss..
and original techno bastard, I see you really are the "original techno bastard" asking for a list.. a list of what, what was really kicking it between 1990 and 1998? (I would say that's fair as '98 was the year I got right into producing as I remember there not really being that many good records about, which is WHY I started producing)

LFO - LFO
F.U.S.E. - Substance Abuse - Plus 8
Mike Ink - Live Evil pt 1 and 2 - Force inc
Mike dearborn on djax along with a lot of other acid and chicago stuff on Djax-up-beats, boo williams - seek and destroy was a particular fave
Mike McCoy on JJ
Drax - Amphetamine - trope
Death - High cost of living - trope
all the early robert armani on ACV
DBX - losing control, live wire and many others
Luke Slater on Djax and peacefrog
Neil Landstrumm on Peacefrog (Brown by august, index man, inhabit the machines)
Funk D'Void -Jack Me off (Soma)
Relief records esp. paul johnson
1st & 2nd plastikman albums
UR
A lot of stuff on Magnetic North esp. Fly By wire- last voyage and Cristian
Vogel Infra e.p.
vogel on force inc
All the early advent records until internal went under (Elements of life etc)
the first 5 or 6 blueprint records
the first 5 or 6 downward records
a lot of the early surgeon stuff, esp Muggerscom out and Pagga from the Underground UK compilation
richard benson on force inc
Spira
Coldust esp. stuff on syncopate labe & all the mark bell, h and other stuff on syncopate
majority of what came out on mosquito, Sativae, Drought and scandinavia
Joey Beltram - Places LP (Tresor and all the remix singles from that album that came at that time)
Subhead
Black nation, all the early jay denham
Early D Knox
Every vogel album on tresor
every tobias schmidt album on tresor..
Space DJz, AK47 remixes
McCormack's remix of bissmire's number and measure

I could probably name more if I sat down and thought about it, I mean this is what personally did it for me over this time, I'm still playing a lot of this stuff now, and I'm pretty much playing out every other weekend.. y'know, stuff like Beltram's places and the early advent stuff, you just don't get stuff of that calibre very often any more, I mean you can argue the toss that it wasn't better if you like, but for me personally it was, there were more records to buy than I had money for, sadly, for me personally it isn't like that any more.. this is what drives me to make music myself...

[TechMouse]

I've been viewing the scene from a fairly objective viewpoint for the past 10 years

DJ / Producer / Promoter / Label Owner, and (at some point, I assume) punter?
Yes, you're right, a very objective position to be in...

IMHO you can't be objective is anything like music / art / film / literature, mainly because taste and opinion - both subjective - preside for lack of any quantifiable qualitative assesment.

[dirty_bass]

You old gits.
nostalgia trips.
There`s still been good stuff coming out since 98
just you had to dig a bit deeper, cos there was more stuff coming out.

[crime]

well, yeah, maybe your right, maybe it's impossible to be objective about this, we all have our experiences, but I'm not denying there is good stuff coming out now, there isn't the same percentage of good stuff to bad stuff, there is more bad stuff than good stuff IMHO.. I mean we can argue this for the next year if you like (i'd rather not), you might like more of what's going on now, but for me, it's rarer I get really impressed by stuff.. I still do luckily sometimes, but maybe it's because I've been into it for so long...

[tocsin]

When I'm actually in a place that still stocks the styles of music I like, I've not noticed any difference in percentage of crap to quality. 10 years ago, there was just as much crap coming out. And, as it should be, that crap got forgotten. But, it's unhealthy to look back ten years ago and claim that better music was coming out then in a better ratio compared to the bad. And, what I find really funny was, in 1995 when I started screwing around with turntables, the older DJs that I knew were saying the same damn thing that some are now. Go figure.