Sven Wittekind - Serious Bitch EP - Tool Terror Records #1

[eyes without a face]

haha copied the wrong quote there shud of been the....

I just dont think that becuause a stand alone track is good that a non stand alone track is pish or lazy.

but still same reply haha ;)

[Stella Boy]

by the way cud u tell Jorge i dont have that phone anymore so cud he email me for my address to send some cd's down

I believe he's in Spain and maybe for good. I've been away for a few weeks and haven't spoken to him for a while but when I do I'll let him know.

With regards to production, off the top of my head I could name several producers who are very succesful which could be classed as lazy but naming names is a rather pointless act but lets say that all genres of music are guilty of this.

[eyes without a face]

yeah totally, ive never once said otherwise, i cud list lazy techno producers all day, just as easy as i could name lazy house, lazy electro producers etc etc... i tend to judge most music i hear on their production values as well as general audible properties, its just a habit and im sure anyone else who produces seriously has noticed themselves picking tracks apart in their head etc without noticing it... its annoying but helps give a better grasp of, well in a technical sense, what is a lazy production and whats not....

ahh i knew Jorge was going to spain but for good? shame if so, he's a good bloke i met him at Voodoo a few weeks back really nice guy

[Stella Boy]

Aye Jorge is a sound bloke and a good dj, he's a bit hard to understand when you're pi5sed but after 5 years you learn to nod in the right places :lol:

[ds2]

re mills, if its one thing his music does its stand alone, and knowing mills' mindset and way of thinking, the implication that he made his music so it was supposed to be played with something else wud probably offend the guy....

erm, purpose maker anybody?????????????

[Mindful]

re mills, if its one thing his music does its stand alone, and knowing mills' mindset and way of thinking, the implication that he made his music so it was supposed to be played with something else wud probably offend the guy....

erm, purpose maker anybody?????????????

exactly was that not the concept behind Pupose maker?

[eyes without a face]

thats irrelevant when its comes to peoples opinions, the examples i gave tracks such as "The Bells" "Changes of Life" "Step to Enchantment" etc are absolute classics and even tho its only my opinion, i think its a widely regarded opinion that these tracks certainly do not lack anything when played on their own, unlike the release in this topic heading....

come on if no one has any more opinions on the actual thread then whats the point in replying to "ohh what about purpose maker"..... some people just wanna flame things up still without something constructive to add to the debate....

[ds2]

come on if no one has any more opinions on the actual thread then whats the point in replying to "ohh what about purpose maker"..... some people just wanna flame things up still without something constructive to add to the debate....

i replied in response to your remarks about "lazy producers" which were all the more hilarious when you came out with this comment.....

mills, if its one thing his music does its stand alone, and knowing mills' mindset and way of thinking, the implication that he made his music so it was supposed to be played with something else wud probably offend the guy haha...

how do you know mills' mindset? you obviously know very little about the guy seeing as he was pretty much the first to utilise locked grooves & minimal loop trax (made for mixing with other records ) in his sets and on his labels.

this kind of puts a spanner in your whole argument about the schranz tune originally discussed.
a record that was made for mixing but you dismissed it as being lazy..

i'm no fan of schranz by any means and i don't like the tool terror record but this argument is just plain daft.

[tocsin]

Steve's explained it well enough there
of course its lazy production to just make a record thats meant to be mixed with something else, its like saying "im
going to make u a cake to eat, but itl taste like shit until u sprinkle some sugar on top"... whats the point

First off, I find the concept of lazy production in techno highly amusing. What isn't "lazy production?" We all sit behind machines and push buttons, often without any thought further than "I wonder what it will sound like if I try this?" Regardless, what you mention is all perspective. Ever taste pure unsweetenen chocolate? It's bitter. Add some sugar, everyone loves it. Throw some peanutbutter on it, more people love it. All this talk about music that sounds the same also seems ridiculous to me as you can say that about any style of techno if it's not your thing. If you're into it, you'll hear the differences. If not, you won't care and you'll get bored. Once discussion of techno music turns into a critique of production quality/technique, in most cases, Elvis has left the building.

[eyes without a face]

no ones saying its not daft, i agree it is daft, but again, and il put it in capitals just in case u miss it

OPINIONS WERE WANTED. OPINIONS WERE GIVEN. SOME OPINIONS DIDNT MATCH WITH THE "OOOOHH WE SHUD ALL KISS EACH OTHERS ARSE" MENTALITY THAT ALOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE SEEM TO ADHERE/REQUIRE IN ORDER FOR A NICE HAPPY FORUM. A DEBATE TOOK PLACE.

its that simple... re my comments on mills, i was basing my opinion on the occasions ive met Mills and the image that i have of him personally.... i dont particulary care who was the first to make loop tracks, locked grooves etc... in fact il stick my neck out and say i DONT GIVE A SHIT who invented/started either.... fact is... it can be done well, or not... in the tool terror case it was most definately, undeniably not.... the whole "these tracks were made to be mixed with others specifically i.e a tool" just doesnt wash with me personally and i never view any tracks like that, even the stuff i have on purpose maker... they are just records that someone has done in my eyes nothing more, nothing less... most electronic records are made with the view of being mixed so when someone says "ohhh its meant to be a loop, its just to mix with" then 90% of the time for me personally it means "oh i couldnt be arsed actually making something with a bit of personality and my own artistic presence".... not the case with Mills for me because to me its just good music, plain and simple

[ds2]

OPINIONS WERE WANTED. OPINIONS WERE GIVEN. SOME OPINIONS DIDNT MATCH WITH THE "OOOOHH WE SHUD ALL KISS EACH OTHERS ARSE" MENTALITY THAT ALOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE SEEM TO ADHERE/REQUIRE IN ORDER FOR A NICE HAPPY FORUM. A DEBATE TOOK PLACE.

agree with that totally :)

but this totally contradicts itself...

.... the whole "these tracks were made to be mixed with others specifically i.e a tool" just doesnt wash with me personally and i never view any tracks like that, even the stuff i have on purpose maker...

but that IS why purpose maker records were made. granted they spawned a million shit copyists but that's not the point.

they are just records that someone has done in my eyes nothing more, nothing less... most electronic records are made with the view of being mixed so when someone says "ohhh its meant to be a loop, its just to mix with" then 90% of the time for me personally it means "oh i couldnt be arsed actually making something with a bit of personality and my own artistic presence".... not the case with Mills for me because to me its just good music, plain and simple

on one hand you're calling people shit for making loop records to mix with and on the other you're praising jeff mills.

[eyes without a face]

ur totally missing my ppint here paul unfortunately.... im speaking from a personal point of view, the fact that purpose maker was made specifically to put out mix tools/loops really is irrelevant to me, il openly admit that i didnt know that was the labels original purpose, and again il be honest i couldnt care less if id never known... it wudnt change my personal feelings/views on the records... they are simply just records i deem as good and wish to play, the fact that they are on a label specifically set up for loops is a mere coincidence, well thats probably not the right word to use as the label was started when i was still in school haha but u get my point surely.....

ive never called people who make loops shit, not in the general sense from which ur describing it, ive got loop records here that blow my head off (no puns please) and will continue to do so for years... but bad tools, no, honestly, i just dont see the point in them at all... if somethings worth doing its worth doing well and this tool terror thing really wasnt... the thing that got me most was the fact that a whole new label was started for such tools, sven has numerous labels i believe already, and in general techno has farrrr too many labels now so any new ones really shud be pushing things more, and certainly not coming up with debut releases of that calibre

[dirty_bass]

all techno is meant to be mixed.
So to say "oh, I meant this record to be mixed" is just a cop out.
Some producers don`t really have that much musical knowledge and talent, and they use the "oh it`s for DJ`s" argument, to justify the lack of ideas.

Lets face it, your average techno loop track can be knocked together in a couple of hours.
So to put in the extra work to make it a bit different, or a bit more interesting, isn`t some huge task.

Lazy production indeed.

[ds2]

all techno is meant to be mixed.

no it's not

So to say "oh, I meant this record to be mixed" is just a cop out.

no it's not.

[eyes without a face]

exactly....

its just music to me, good or bad, pretty simple..... the word "tool" is such a horrible word to describe something that should be full of the very essence of the person who made it... a bit deep yes but in production it is ur personal thoughts and views that mould ur music... this just sounds so cold, unoriginal and pretty devoid of anything close to emotion

anyways, a good debate still haha i do enjoy it all i must say lol

god that sounds ****in sad haha :lol:

[eyes without a face]

yes it is ;)

[ds2]

blah blah blah...

:lol:

i think we should just agree to disagree then although that tool terror is a bit poor, i agree with that bit.

[eyes without a face]

again, missed point... i love viewing peoples opinions and havent said anything against that... it was the fact that id already explained mine several times in the thread and was a bit tired of typing it out again, so caps it was...

again tho, that bits over with so lets move on, which we were just about to i think....

[tocsin]

no ones saying its not daft, i agree it is daft, but again, and il put it in capitals just in case u miss it
OPINIONS WERE WANTED. OPINIONS WERE GIVEN. SOME OPINIONS DIDNT MATCH WITH THE "OOOOHH WE SHUD ALL KISS EACH OTHERS
ARSE" MENTALITY THAT ALOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE SEEM TO ADHERE/REQUIRE IN ORDER FOR A NICE HAPPY FORUM. A DEBATE TOOK
PLACE.

Dude, if you're going to post your opinion, you don't need to get huffy and respond in all caps when people post their's. Nobody's asking for an ass kissing session. I'll still chuckle at the idea that one loop record is better than another. Whether it's Mills or some kid from Europe, it wouldn't be my thing. But, given that people do and have made records specifically empty for DJ mixing purposes, I don't see how the "good track stands out on it's own" logic would apply to a record that is more or less advertised as a stripped down DJ "tool." If someone asked for your opinion on a Gremlin, would you criticize it for not being a Ferrari? If someone did a pencil sketch, would you criticize it for not being oil on canvas? You could always make the statement that the sketch artist was just lazy for not going the route of creating a beautiful full color oil canvas painting. But, that ignores the very real fact that the artist just may have wanted to draw something rather simplistic with a pencil.

[eyes without a face]

what happened there??? i posted that as a reply but its swapped things round now but it should make sense still... haha...

haha yeah Paul thats a good halfway house as it were, we'l just agree that this is a bad record :lol: ;)