should local djs/producer aim for a local sound?

[eyes without a face]

Fair enough, although in the bigger scheme of things Beltram has been as influential a figure within techno as you can get

hmmm... very difficult topic this one i think when u take into account the range of tastes on a board like this, so i think the Beltram thing is just gonna go round in circles.... ur comment definately has alot of truth in it, but influential figure wise, well maybe look to the people who came before Beltram techno wise, im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

[crime]

Joey Beltram "Places" (Tresor)
one of my biggest influences...
hard but funky

[Sunil]

ur comment definately has alot of truth in it, but influential figure wise, well maybe look to the people who came before Beltram techno wise, im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

Yeah, techno came from Detroit sure. For me though, I got into Beltram, Mills, NY producers and European producers before I took an interest in Derrick May or the original Detroit crew.. I never really related the techno of Beltram to the original sound of Detroit, it sounded much different; in fact I rejected a lot of the Detroit techno that I started to hear as it just didn't move me the way other techno did. Granted I hold records by Juan Atkins or Suburban Knight as some of the best I have, the likes of "Strings Of Life" or other such classics just never did it for me...

[Ritzi Lee]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

[SlavikSvensk]

come on people! we alol know and love energy flash, but maybe some of you are forgetting that it's from 19-f***ing-90!

http://www.discogs.com/release/2084

listen to it again, and then listen to the stuff coming from detroit and europe before it.

hard techno begins with this record. and no, that does not mean that other forms of music that pre-date it (industrial, some metal, avant-garde classical, etc.) did not play HUGE roles in influencing hard techno...

...but the fact is that none of those things took techno and made it considerably harder and darker than what came before it. and energy flash did.

[SlavikSvensk]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

[eyes without a face]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

i didnt say anyone was did i? No......

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)


thanks ritzi this is what i was looking for ;)

[FUSION]

im not sure of his exact first release but Energy Flash is cited as his first release by alot of people, and who gave him the platform for this release? Derrick May, one of the true innovators... im not going to go into the story as everyone knows the Belleville 3, but that is were, for me personally i add before im jumped on, techno does actually "come" from... not the harder sound of course, but the original sound....

i don't think anyone here is arguing that joey beltram invented TECHNO...

im defo not never heard of him, silly name mind :lol:

[tocsin]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

Didn't Acardipane write "We Have Arrived" in 1989?

[SlavikSvensk]

i didnt say anyone was did i? No......

okay, i misunderstood what you meant there...

[Ritzi Lee]

In 1989 Beltram started releasing some of his early productions on several small New York record labels. A year later he caught the eye of R & S Records in Belgium and by mid 1990 released his first major record with that company titled "Energy Flash". That was even before the hardcore sound of Euromasters / Rotterdam was there... But it was the time that the euro techno sound took over from the populair Bigbeat sound in the late 80's. Suddenly there was the Belgium techno sound (1990), and short after that the hardcore / gabber. (1991)

A funny thing about Energy Flash. Beltram did not even had the intention to call it techno, but just house music. The sound was totally different from the Detroit techno sound, but it definitly wasn't housemusic at all, because the sound was to harsh / hard.

2 DB: Just name 1 record / artist besides Beltram's music that influenced the creation of the hard techno sound in 1990. I mean the acidhouse sound of 1986 / 1987 / 1988 was a totally different thing. And hard metal and stuff was more like a rock thing / scene kinda thing... Nothing to do with house or techno or so..

Didn't Acardipane write "We Have Arrived" in 1989?

That was in 1991.

[tocsin]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

[SlavikSvensk]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

might have, but energy flash is still year zero for hard techno (in the broadest sense of the term).

[djshiva]

locutus actually is doing an ep based on this idea actually. since he is from indiana, moved to detroit, then belgium, then st louis, then japan and now back to indiana, his question was how much of his sound is influenced by his surroundings, and can any genre of techno in this information age REALLY be site specific, or is the geography really kind of all in your head?

i for one tend to think that techno has become so international and so border crossing (which i love because i truly do not believe in borders as anything other than political tools), that location only influences the music insofar as it affects you personally, and less on a specific sound or style.

i also think that if you happen to live outside of any of these major urban centers or just in cultural wastelands like indiana (USA), then you are more influenced by the ABSENCE of similar music around you. some of the freshest art, music or poetry i have heard comes from places where there isn't a highly developed scene or style.

rambling tho that was, i hope i got my point across. need caffeine...

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah indiana sucks! my least favorite state in the north...

...anyways, nice one brining it back to the topic...

big cities can become too scene-y...too much competition and too much in fighting.

but scenes often start as a small number of creative people who hang out and then go make music...look at stockholm in 1996...then it blew up and we have swedish techno as an established sound...

[Ritzi Lee]

Well, still, he was writing music and releasing it through PCP in 1989. I'd say PCP probably had more of an influence on the Rotterdam sound than Beltram.

Don't know about that actually.
But from the Dutch point of view Hardcore was inspired by the New Beat sound from Belgium. Tapes from Jade4U, Praga Kahn, T99, Trance Trax, 101, Space Opera ...

And before that there was the EBM (Electronic Body Music): Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, etc.

"Rave Alert" of Praga Khan in 1991 is a typical example of a track that inspired people like Paul Elstak, DJ Rob, to create the hardcore / gabber sound.

[tocsin]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story. People can credit Beltram with starting hard techno. But, there were other people doing hard techno at the same time. So who's right? Not saying that Praga Khan may not have had an influence in rotterdam. But, that would probably be in the poppier synth work than the dirty kick drums. Dutch/Rave style synths were also noticably absent from a number of hardcore tracks. So what influenced them? Beltram? Elstak? It's not like Elstak was the first to run drums through distortion. ;)

[SlavikSvensk]

looks like our history argument scared off riotsound...

[massplanck]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story.

:clap:

Goldilocks invented techno.

[SlavikSvensk]

I dunno. I still look at all the history as kind of a bedtime story.

:clap:

Goldilocks invented techno.

no she didn't, it was the bears!