Quote Originally Posted by tocsin
The act I heard first that sounded closest to any "hardcore" I like now was Ministry. Beltram had **** all to do with that. I've got no problem with people giving credit to certain artists for certain sounds. But, as people accept a subjective history as a greater truth every day, it really seems that a number of people are willing to give certain producers way tooo much credit towards what they influenced.
can't speak for ritzi, but i was not saying that there is one root for hard techno, but that beltram was really the first one to make techno hard (along with the belgians at R&S), which changed techno forever, and that every hard track that comes out afterwards is, as a result, influenced by that tragectory.

if beltram hadn't done it, someone else probably would have. but then we'd have different people at different times listening to different records, and the whole tree of accidental or situational influences would be different...