The Old Techno Guys - Hmmm - Are They Loosing It???

[TechMouse]

I think a big part of the problem is attitude.

People like Clarke, Mills etc. seem to treat everything as a chore - and charging the fees they do, and constantly jetting around the world etc. they can be forgiven to a certain extent. It does get silly though.

That said - not so long ago Jeff Mills was paid a very large sum of money to come up and play here in Notts, with his new DVD-J set etc. The contract had no manner of silly little things into it: Jeff must recieve 1000 Euros - in 50s - upon arrival... Chauffeur-driven Mercedes from Heathrow, no music - no talking... etc.

In the end, for whatever reason, he didn't play with the DVD-J's. When the crew responsible tried to rig up some cameras etc. so that they had something to project on the screens, Jeff's manager said "no cameras on Jeff"... To top it off, many people I know said that the night was remarkable only in it's mediocrity.

IMHO the root of the problem is this. When the likes of Mills, Clarke, Sims etc. were becoming big names, competition in the DJ world wasn't so fierce. Play some good tunes, mix with 3 decks occasionally, knock out some decent 12"s every now and then and people will love you.

The fact is that talented DJs are ten a penny these days. You show me one Jeff Mills and I'll point you in the direction of at least 10 equally (if not more) talented DJs - many of whom are registered on this forum, and wouldn't dream of trying to charge what Mills does.

Not at all trying to knock any of the past masters - just point out that it's a different ball game these days, and you have to do a hell of a lot more to get noticed. For more info, see: Jerome Hill, DJ Bam Bam and Pet Duo.

[eyes without a face]

out of Mills , Sims, Clarke , Beyer , Carola id say....

mills - still got it definately, Clarke is still up there always will be for me personally, Sims is the best 3 deck dj in town at the moment, Beyer i think is clawing back a bit of cred with people who got too bored of that swedish sound with the new minimal stuff he's been doing lately, and Carola has never been at the top for me, a good dj but not in the same league as the likes of Clarke, Mills etc production wise....

i think the question is far too literal and really depends on the artist in question... for me one example of someone who has really lost it is Luke Slater, my word people remember the Planetary Assualt work... the last time i saw him he was doing THE worst electropop with even worse vocals... shame....

[G-whizz]

I think when it comes to writing music in general (from my limited experience) it's a time and place thing .. as and example it would difficult for say dave the drummer to write a tune just like one that he did 10 years ago ... its a different now , you look at things in a different perspective.

Now for say Jeff mills and the like what influences do they have ? with all that money and jet setting everywhere as opposed to slumming it like if you decided to go play at a french tek out in the middle of an old run way :)

[eyes without a face]

yeah thats true, lifestyle has an influence on the music u do for sure... its just the same for bands etc ... early songs are about breaking free from their social confines etc but when they get a bit of success, more money, move to a nicer area, their social circle may change and sometimes it results in a change of direction musically, one which original fans fear is not as strong or doesnt have that same emotion...

wikid topic tho must say

[SlavikSvensk]

i'm sure if jeff mills put his heart and soul into it, he would blow dancefloors away like he did in the old days.

now i think he just doesn't show as much passion for the music.

not that this is wholey surprising...a lot of people get burnt out, but the cash these guys earn is enough to keep them going.

when it comes to producers...i see it as a fairly different situation. i think a lot of people get stuck in their ways/stuck in their technology...and it gets easy to make stuff that sounds like your other stuff...

new people are trying to make names for themselves, so obviously are very worried about complacency...

[TechMouse]

when it comes to producers...i see it as a fairly different situation. i think a lot of people get stuck in their ways/stuck in their technology...and it gets easy to make stuff that sounds like your other stuff...

On a similar note, I think that computer-based production "frees" people a lot from the constraints of more traditional technology. For example - I'm sure a lot of people still "think" in terms of the sequencer on a 909 when programming their beats, whereas the new kids will be coming at it from all angles.

[SlavikSvensk]

new technology gives with one hand, and takes away with the other.

you are right about sequencing, but then you have loops and loop cds which result in hundreds of cookie-cutter tracks...

[Joseph Isaac]

All inflated egos eventually burst.

[gunjack]

it's natural. the new generation always takes it further than the last, u kno?

[loopdon]

let's get it done then, homies

[TripleX]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

[audioinjection]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

[eyes without a face]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

thats open to debate tho, a dj is only as they push themselves to be and i know a lot of very talented young djs, and yeah of course compared to sims or mills they are not the best djs in town, but they dont have the 20 years+ experience that these guys have had, and there are PLENTY of big league djs who are poor when compared to alot of newer, younger djs, never mind the likes of sims and mills....

u cant blame someone for being born 20 years after Mills now can you? if they are trying then thats what matters

[SlavikSvensk]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

:clap: :clap: :clap:

well said!

[SlavikSvensk]

though i DO think some of the old guys have lost the plot...or at least the passion...

[dirty_bass]

I agree mostly with mark.
I think partly it is down to workload.
Some of the big names are playing so much (DJ wise) that they may not have the time to be creative in temrs of personal exploration.
ie the little time they get in the studio, whatever they make in that time, needs to get released, crap or not.
And it also may be partly down to lack of inspiration. When you make the same music again and again and again, it`s not very inspiring, or good for evolution. So the creative passion wears a bit thin.
In some cases, I think just taking a break may help.

[djshiva]

i have always said that hunger (meant in the literal as well as figuratively) is always a great driving force behind creativity. no diss to the old school cats, cuz they brought us to where we are today...but when you are making 5 figures a gig, the hunger just isn't there anymore.

when it truly becomes a JOB (and mentally you see it as a job), then it starts to lose its driving force.

all i can say is, if anyone starts to look at music and djing as a job, go work fast food or a factory job for a week, and you'll come back with a whole new attitude.

the ones coming up now are the cats who are still working day jobs and making music in between. work and everyday crap is a great inspiration to write. i know i have been fairly prolific since getting booted outta my house. shite landlords are great inspiration as well...

[davethedrummer]

older techno djs are exactly that....older.
they did it then ...maybe they can still do it now. ( maybe not)
but without them the genre would not have moved forward to where it is now.
personally i couldn't care less about "hard" techno right now
all the amoks and wittekinds etc etc etc ( only an example not personal ) maybe they make great tunes....and maybe i've just totally lost the plot
( wooooohhhh i'm a hamster!!!!!!let me drive my table!!!!!)

but i don't get it.

when you go and see the rolling stones you want to hear satisfaction right?
does that mean that coldplay are better than them because they are younger?

i don't know
so........so what.....you drop one record at one club...everyone goes nuts...you drop it somewhere else everyone goes to the bar.

so what?

come on mark ..you started it....can we stop just talking about sims and mills and really get a bit deeper into this thing?

have older techno guys really lost the plot.

[tocsin]

Maybe they lost the plot. Or, maybe for the newer influx of listeners who are replacing those who left, the older guys never had the plot to begin with. I used to be more into metal than anything else. I never really liked Black Sabbath and they were definitely before my time.

[Mindful]

I personaly dont think they are
im not sure I could put it any better just different than what this man said

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge....

I agree with that 100%