The Old Techno Guys - Hmmm - Are They Loosing It???

[Mindful]

But maybe if they cant make the kids rock as much as .....well the kids can then maybe they have lost the plot.

It depends if making kids rock is the plot.
Wich im sure a lot of you will say it is.

[SlavikSvensk]

have older techno guys really lost the plot.

some definately have. some definately have not.

but i think, generally, that techno has grown less challenging over the years, and that has a lot to do with this endless sub-genrefication...it makes tastes narrow and, IMO, grow less sophisticated...

...so you play to a schranz crowd and put on the first killa bite record. maybe they don't like it because they came to only hear schranz. [note: this applies to most sub-genres, or sub-genres-within-sub-genres...not just schranz]

[SlavikSvensk]

I personaly dont think they are
im not sure I could put it any better just different than what this man said

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge....

I agree with that 100%

thanks for picking up on that point...thought no one saw the logic there!

[tocsin]

I agree with that 100%

Well, I can sorta agree with that statement. Only, in my experience, it has less to do with lack of sophistication in the listeners and more to do with DJs who also happen to be promoters that aren't quite as open minded as their audience might be. 6-7 years ago, it wasn't overly hard for me to get a booking where I could play hardcore. Now it's damn near impossible, not so much because I couldn't get a crowd into a set, but because a lot of promoter DJs just don't like it. DJs have the tendency to be anal about what they like and play around my area it seems. Thus, when they pick up the reins that other promoters have dropped, you'll see full nights of the same sound.

[Joseph Isaac]

i think its because most of the younger generation hasnt been around long enough to appreciate what the older guys have done, so they just stick to new guys

Excellent point.

[SlavikSvensk]

I agree with that 100%

Well, I can sorta agree with that statement. Only, in my experience, it has less to do with lack of sophistication in the listeners and more to do with DJs who also happen to be promoters that aren't quite as open minded as their audience might be. 6-7 years ago, it wasn't overly hard for me to get a booking where I could play hardcore. Now it's damn near impossible, not so much because I couldn't get a crowd into a set, but because a lot of promoter DJs just don't like it. DJs have the tendency to be anal about what they like and play around my area it seems. Thus, when they pick up the reins that other promoters have dropped, you'll see full nights of the same sound.

yeah, i agree with that. we need more cross-sub-genre...and () cross-genre nights...

[Craig McW]

Hold on a minute there chief, "ill-informed" is a bit harsh. I was commenting solely on production, not contribution to the scene as a whole.

I love Sims, I love Clarke, Hawtin, Mills, Carola. What they have "contributed" to the scene over the years is above reproach.

. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

i found that comment particulary well, ill informed really.... Sims has done some absolute gem's over the years and i presume its Carlos Rios u mean there, yeah he's a bad ass producer, but Sim's has done so much for techno over the years the likes of Rios etc can only try to achieve.... even if people are "losing" it now, which i must agree alot of people are imo, thats not to say people shouldnt hold up the legacy that these artists have created before them.... without Sims we wouldnt have half the number of tribal/club producers there are, even some of the more up n coming ones...

i think the bigger artists kinda go through the motions a bit more as they get older and they've been doing the job for longer, travel takes its toll, some rely on older records a bit TOO much etc etc

i wholeheartedly agree about the new skool as it were, but i wudnt class Sven and Amok in there as they are more than established artists now, but some of the the talent on this board is pretty badddd!!!!

thats badddd in a good way of course haha

[The Overfiend]

when you go and see the rolling stones you want to hear satisfaction right?
does that mean that coldplay are better than them because they are younger?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[TripleX]

i agree that there a lot of good young producers today, but their deejaying is poor compared to sims or mills.
my 2cents

u cant blame someone for being born 20 years after Mills now can you? if they are trying then thats what matters

good point.

[The Overfiend]

And to add to the defense of Ben Sims, listen to his qcontrol mix, that shit kills half the new hard and fast cats out now suckas.

[S/E]

And to add to the defense of Ben Sims, listen to his qcontrol mix, that shit kills half the new hard and fast cats out now suckas.

That was one serious mix. The track selection and Mr. Sims' impeccable skills made for a timeless set. :)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[holotropik]

I dont think they are losing it at all.

Music is a fickle thing, it follows trends and fads which is largely driven by factors that an artist cannot control. As a DJ it is even harder to please the punters as they tend to be more demanding. Dont forget that each individual person expects that a DJ should play what they want or expect and therefore the DJ feels pulled from every direction by a crowd which can be very disheartening.

I always go back to the band senario. When a band first hits the scene they make a mark from their first release. Then they release something else the next year and it is always very hard to make the same impression. The band know this. They deliberate over where they want to go and the label boss also tells them where they should go. After all consideration they release something and hope that it works. It does but not the same way. They lose some of the original fans but gain some new ones. Some are long term listeners and some are transitory.

With Techno it is similar but different because people expect future all the time. Then there are global trends, where what is working in Europe may not be working in the US etc. Its not easy to pick what will work because Techno aint new anymore. People know it now, they know what a DJ does, they know what a producer does, they know how things in the industry work - they are very close to it in a majority of cases. They are also very fanatical about it too, more so than other forms of music as its passions run deep because its that sort of music.

Techno is also at the mercy of something else.......???

BTW, someone mentioned SuckerPunch.

Funny. We been doing a party down here in OZ called SuckerPunch all throughout last year. It was focussed on just that - a musical style that is Techno but travels through all elements of it and delivers a surprize during the set. It draws you in and takes you out. Was very successful and influenced a lot of other people as it was a great mix of all sub-genres. DJ Simon Slieker ran these parties (I helped).

[Little Fella!]

This partly links up with the thread 'Techno.. a new movement?'

I can't comment on the big guns really, only to say that I don't think plots have been lost I just think creative energies have been strained either through longevity in the business, (those long weekends into the bargain!), or the fact that they may not feel that they have to focus on being innovative anymore...

Perhaps if a focal point was created so that producers old and new alike can flex their creative muscles for a given purpose then things may start to freshen up a little- and I think the discerning crowd will notice this...

What ya fink?

[holotropik]

I'll second that "Little Fella"

That is one concept that I cant understand why it isnt taken advantage of. makes perfect sense to me. There is strength in numbers after all and is why many of the Hip-Hop crews are so strong!

No-one can do it alone for a long time and expect to survive, but, if they expand into a crew of like-minded artists then there is more for everyone.

[DJAmok]

I think one major dilemma with People who have been in the music business for too long is, that they have 'said' the things they wanted to say with their early works, the ones where they were still passionate about doing, changing and creating something. This passion is within everyone who enters the scene, but it naturally wears off.

After a while you need to come up with new ideas, but since you can't go in a totally different direction with every record, you kinda stick to your style and start limiting yourself. Then after a while you start becoming bored with your sound and feel the need to "evolve". Usually this means your production level will rise, your tracks will become more sophisticated and more "intelligent". But this is a good thing, right?

Well... maybe not. I got the theory that this process kind of kills the accessability of your tracks. It's usually the simple things that work. Simple beats, simple melodys - nothing fancy, just a good groove to get people moving. No thought, just emotion. When you burden your listeners with too much structure in your tracks, you will make your longtime fans happy, but you will loose the youngsters, who want uncomplicated accessible techno in the sound of today.

[Mindful]

This partly links up with the thread 'Techno.. a new movement?'

I can't comment on the big guns really, only to say that I don't think plots have been lost I just think creative energies have been strained either through longevity in the business, (those long weekends into the bargain!), or the fact that they may not feel that they have to focus on being innovative anymore...

Perhaps if a focal point was created so that producers old and new alike can flex their creative muscles for a given purpose then things may start to freshen up a little- and I think the discerning crowd will notice this...

What ya fink?

You talk alot of sense lil fella but what is this focal piont that us who whant to try somthing different should focus on a label,a night, pehaps both?
cause as far as I can see theres just a few potential labels and just a coupleof nights that I feel are a playground for such experimrntation

[The Divide]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)

Hard techno has gotten harder and faster but, for me anyways, this sound is boring. All this on beat kick into off beat lift compression lifted drum/noise makes me think its taking techno down a road similar to happy hardcore, hardstyle, etc. Its gottten really cheesy for me. Where as older, slower and more minimal techno sounded more calculated and had more outside influence and feeling. More twisted wierdness too

But back to the subject I think a lot of the older guys have perhaps grown away from the original hard techno sound and are trying to do something a bit different which looses some of the younger crowds. Some have lost their drive and others are disconnected (mills wanting pop star treatment for example). It reminds me, I have recently got a copy of the un-released world service 2 Dave Clarke techno cd and its terrible. There’s no love in it.

I guess its like survival of the fittest even with music, the younger producers have more energy in them where the older ones look for something different and get pushed to the back

[SlavikSvensk]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)

we must be related...

[The Divide]

I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)

we must be related...

Must be distant fellow yoda :lol:

[Mindful]

Hard techno has gotten harder and faster but, for me anyways, this sound is boring. All this on beat kick into off beat lift compression lifted drum/noise makes me think its taking techno down a road similar to happy hardcore, hardstyle, etc. Its gottten really cheesy for me. Where as older, slower and more minimal techno sounded more calculated and had more outside influence and feeling. More twisted wierdness too

Good call Dan.