The (possible) Future of DJ'ing

[Flipvert]

The (possible) Future of DJ'ing
Okay here's my thoughts on how to move things forward:

Making use of the new controllers coming out for ableton / traktor / Fscratch etc.

Sell CD's / DVD's of an E.P or Single in the following format:

example:

Chris Liebing - Seven Eleven

1. Kik Drum Channel
2. Snare Drum Channel
3. Bassline Channel (1)
4. Bassline Channel (2)
5. Synth Line Channel
6. Fx Channel

and so on...

so in essence the complete tune is stripped down to it's single tracks.

on later tracks have the individual hits... kik, snare, crash etc.

also have wet and dry versions.

The point being that you could then excentuate the mix, lengthen it. edit it, remix it, etc

and use the parts in ableton / traktor / final scratch

This could be made viable in a "selling records" way, by selling the cd / dvd at say 10 to 20 times the price.

Serious developers of "Live" mixing / editing would I'm sure pay the money, considering most people Dj and Produce.

Also the piracy would be somewhat less, like the dub culture because the people that bought the cd / dvd would be less inclined to share it... I mean you get what u pay for and it would lead to far more inspiring, far more un cluttered and tuneful sets...


Before you flame... just pause and think about the extent of the possibilities with ableton and VST's... using meloydyne / anaters autotune to switch tune / key of basslines... and on and on... true DJ creativity...

then think back to Grandmaster flash and what he did with 2 record players instead of one which has helped lead to the last 20 years of Dj'ing...

let's move things forward...

[Patrick DSP]

you just discribed how most people do their live pa's with ableton ;)

[Evil G]

i've actually been thinking about something similar for live sets - mixing my tracks down to stems, with each on a different channel. i'm not sure many people would want to distribute tracks like that though, as it would make it easier than ever for people to jack your loops.

[Patrick DSP]

trent reznor/NIN did a simular thing for people with his "with teeth" track, for people with apple's garage band software. and there are tonnes of people providing semi stripped down tracks for sonicfoundry's/sony's acid software.

sure the lines between dj'ing and performing your own material is becoming thinner and thinner these days (which is good because it allows people to be more creative and allowing them to shine through more than what new promo or white label they have) but it also be a double edged sword and allow the uncreative to be more lazy. but as always, true tallent shines.

but my question is that when you stop spinning discs (vinyl or cd's) can it still be called being a disc jockey? or would you just be a gear whore?

i personally believe that if you don't have to worry about playing with the pitch of a song/loop (ie, it's pre-done or calculated for you) then it's not dj'ing.

[Komplex]

i'm not sure many people would want to distribute tracks like that though, as it would make it easier than ever for people to jack your loops.

I know that any self respecting artist who puts any sort of real work into their music wouldn't even think twice about handing it out all chopped up for people to rip off in any number of ways.

It'll (already has) come down to making your own edits of tracks and just using those I think...

[RDR]

trent reznor/NIN did a simular thing for people with his "with teeth" track, for people with apple's garage band software. and there are tonnes of people providing semi stripped down tracks for sonicfoundry's/sony's acid software.

That sounds interesting, care to enlighten me more DSP?

or would you just be a gear whore?

:roll: That sounds like me....

[Debroglie]

You know I think I agree the future of DJing will become pretty much like what you have discribed , I remember Monolake talking about how in the future that you'll have auto remix functions in things like an ipod , could be interesting I think ... but I also think that having something completely humanly-oringinal is important to us all.

[TechMouse]

I know that any self respecting artist who puts any sort of real work into their music wouldn't even think twice about handing it out all chopped up for people to rip off in any number of ways.

Richie Hawtin (DE:9), Speedy J (Loudboxer) and Chris Liebing (Stigmata) have all put out vinyls which consist solely of locked grooves, which is near enough the same as giving people all the parts to something. I'd describe all three as self respecting artists.

[Komplex]

I know that any self respecting artist who puts any sort of real work into their music wouldn't even think twice about handing it out all chopped up for people to rip off in any number of ways.

Richie Hawtin (DE:9), Speedy J (Loudboxer) and Chris Liebing (Stigmata) have all put out vinyls which consist solely of locked grooves, which is near enough the same as giving people all the parts to something. I'd describe all three as self respecting artists.

Ok DE:9 isnt even Hawtins music is it? Isn't it just loops ripped from a collection of other peoples tracks? The same ones he used for the closer to the edit mix thing? (or am I confusing it with something else?)

Speedy J's locked groove thing is exactly that, loops that repeat, with some progression between different loops, kind of like those loops tracks that go for 5 minutes and don't change (which makes me wonder why people don't just make more locked groove records). Its a great record :)

But they aren't exactly a whole piece of music, a standout track, cut up into instrument level parts, on a cd in wav format ready for raping.

I wouldn't know about the Chris Liebing one. It was probably some marketing gimmick. Tell me about it please.

Anyway, if people wanna put the extra effort into releasing their original music all chopped up like this than good on them. I'm having enough trouble sourcing a high number of good techno on cd's so I think its all still a long way off :(

[TechMouse]

Ok DE:9 isnt even Hawtins music is it? Isn't it just loops ripped from a collection of other peoples tracks? The same ones he used for the closer to the edit mix thing? (or am I confusing it with something else?)

Bit of both, I thought, but I might be wrong.

It is a locked groove record though. The mix CD was one long mix, but the vinyl was concentric grooves.

Speedy J's locked groove thing is exactly that, loops that repeat, with some progression between different loops, kind of like those loops tracks that go for 5 minutes and don't change (which makes me wonder why people don't just make more locked groove records). Its a great record :)

But they aren't exactly a whole piece of music, a standout track, cut up into instrument level parts, on a cd in wav format ready for raping.

I think my point is that it's giving you loops rather than whole tracks, so you could see them more as a DJ tool for "constructing" a set rather than just playing tracks... which is only a hop skip & a jump away from loading all the loops into Ableton and mixing them that way... and why not add your own stuff hile you're at it. These kind of ideas are only just starting to form in people's heads.

I wouldn't know about the Chris Liebing one. It was probably some marketing gimmick. Tell me about it please.

Stigmata Loops 1 (on Juno)
Stigmata Loops 2 (on Juno)

Same kind of deal really.

Anyway, if people wanna put the extra effort into releasing their original music all chopped up like this than good on them. I'm having enough trouble sourcing a high number of good techno on cd's so I think its all still a long way off :(

Maybe. Who knows.

I always give people CDs when I can.

[g]

which de9? the first had only Orange of hawtin's, which was 100% cut up Oh Yeah. the second i think there's about 10 hawtin productions there but come on... no one piece is longer than 4 bars on that record. the third? i guess we'll see in september.

loudboxer was a 100% loops project so releasing them individually isn't unusual. same with the de9 #2. libeing, who cares. he barely makes his own music either way. putting out loops is old news; mills released Cycle 30 in 1994. but this is all different than what was said about publishing the individual building blocks of a track. a loop will have all the elements of the track or section of the track. kick track, synth track, etc -- very different.

and that NIN garageband source material stuff is on the NIN site, or it was.

[holotropik]

About 5 years ago I thought the same thing Flipvert.

Thats why i didnt bother to DJ - rather i play Live from machines in much the same way (using bits and pieces etc)

[dirty_bass]

yeah, no way I`m giving some DJ all the parts of my songs so he can get credit for playing me music "live"
I`ll play it myself thanks.

[BRADLEE]

yeah, no way I`m giving some DJ all the parts of my songs so he can get credit for playing me music "live"
I`ll play it myself thanks.

Agreed

[Flipvert]

me 2... but I wanted mind playing out some stripped down (not eq'd out) versions of some certain tracks...

Purple Heart on Stay Up Forever...

I always wanted to remix that, I'd be lucky to hear it again, let alone remix it...

but hey, one day...

[DotMatrix]

Ok DE:9 isnt even Hawtins music is it? Isn't it just loops ripped from a collection of other peoples tracks? The same ones he used for the closer to the edit mix thing? (or am I confusing it with something else?)

Bit of both, I thought, but I might be wrong.

From Memory his concept was something along the lines of "stripping back classic tunes to their most minimal essence and reproducing them in a semi live fasion with effects a 909 etc." the CD was Ritchie using other peoples loops with his gear and the vinyl pack was just the loops on there own.

However what richie did on that cd is probably closer to what the future of Dj'ing could be with tools like ableton etc. You would not need the parts to be provided for you, Dj's would cut tunes they like to pieces, and then use ableton to re-sequence on the fly cutting between various ripped breakdowns, loops etc. most dj's I think would be much happier with a couple of bars of a finished track than the individual parts. individual parts would cross the line into remixing and would no longer be dj'ing. I think that using ableton as a dj tool would mean additional production would be minimal to non existant and it would just be an alternative to turntables with some interesting advantages in the way of added control to the tunes you play. Kind of like what I imagined dj's were doing before I knew any better.

I can definately see the appeal of this kind of thing, but it would have to be done with good taste and in a thought provoking way, I think ritchie managed that with closer to the edit, many would not. And i think I would sooner see things stay as they are, once could be fun but if everyone started doing it could get mighty tiresome.

that's my two cents.

[TechMouse]

yeah, no way I`m giving some DJ all the parts of my songs so he can get credit for playing me music "live"
I`ll play it myself thanks.

Fair enough - that's your perogative.

Personally, if I made a loop and someone wanted to stick it in their live set I'd be honoured. I guess it just depends on your mindset. I'm very much in favour of "sharing the wealth". The whole dance music community thrives on people performing with other people's output - so I kind of see this as the logical destination.

That said, I can completely understand someone wanting complete creative control of their output, and wouldn't knock anyone who didn't want to release indivdual hits / loops etc.

[BRADLEE]

Personally, if I made a loop and someone wanted to stick it in their live set I'd be honoured. I guess it just depends on your mindset. I'm very much in favour of "sharing the wealth". The whole dance music community thrives on people performing with other people's output - so I kind of see this as the logical destination.

I can see where you're coming from if this was just concerning the samples you use to make your track parts, but not the track parts themself.

However nothing wrong with sharing the sample love. What you do with them at that point is up to you though.

[danielmarshall]

yeah, no way I`m giving some DJ all the parts of my songs so he can get credit for playing me music "live"
I`ll play it myself thanks.

DJs are already basically doing that - and they sometimes deserve the credit. DJing creatively is not easy, no matter what tools you have at your disposal. I used to be a DJ, and although you're technically not creating the song from scratch you're still the last link in the creative chain before the signal gets sent to the amp.

But as a live musician myself you have to try pretty hard not to wince at the lack of respect given to those who take the path less trodden. That said, I'm completely in favour of releasing music in a multi-channel format. I've had this idea for years now, but it'll probably never catch on because of distribution problems as mentioned.

One concievable way of overcoming this would be to distribute tracks in a universal format (say in a refined Ableton .als format) on the internet in the same way music is sold in MP3 format on iTunes. Getting artists interested is another thing. Yet another thing is getting DJs to let go of the outdated and sickeningly romatic idea that vinyl is better than everything else...