The MP3 question.

[massplanck]

howdy.

I'd guess that a lot of people here use Soulseek et al to download music etc. I'm just wondering what sort of effect this has when people just download mp3's burn them to CD and DJ out with a load of tracks they never paid for or didnt even bother trying to hunt down.

I dunno I seem to be in the minority i think when i say I very very very rarely have an mp3 on my PC that i didnt pay for\i dont own on vinyl. Thats not to say I might not download the odd track or album to find out about a particular artist but then i usually make a decision to bin it or buy it. Even doing this is rare for me though. Supporting the artist and all that.

I have just been enraged because I was told by someone on another forum (heated argument) that they only download music because 'to keep ahead of the pack' they need the latest tunes and by the time it comes out on wax the tune isnt worth playing no more. Obviuosly this person is a clown of the highest order but other explanations given were 'i wouldnt have bought it anyway' or 'i dont have much money to spend on music' (after paying the broadband bills/ buying a pc/ top of the range CD deck/drugs/booze etc tec)

Sorry what set me off was a good mate you used to buy lets say the odd bit of music being handed 100 gigs of tunes and proclaiming that he wont have to spend any more on music for the year. He's not a DJ or anything, just your average joe soap but he did by the odd CD before all this shit started.

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

[TechMouse]

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

Yes.

If they're playing stuff downloaded illegally, then they're stealing from record labels. Most small record labels exist on a knife-edge anyway, and rely on the very small amount of money they get from people buying their records in order to keep going.

If you aren't paying for your tunes, then you're contributing the the demise of small record labels.

[massplanck]

I'm firmly in that camp myself TechMouse.

The scary thing was that in this argument i was pretty much on my own which is pretty disheartening for the future. Some people have different agendas though ie.. people who do spend money on music but download tracks that couldnt be found like (deleted classics) or stuff that goes for 100 euros on ebay or something. There is a small case for that alright but the problem is you cant go around inspecting peoples hardrives to find out how sincere they are.

[TechMouse]

I'm firmly in that camp myself TechMouse.

The scary thing was that in this argument i was pretty much on my own which is pretty disheartening for the future. Some people have different agendas though ie.. people who do spend money on music but download tracks that couldnt be found like (deleted classics) or stuff that goes for 100 euros on ebay or something. There is a small case for that alright but the problem is you cant go around inspecting peoples hardrives to find out how sincere they are.

In all fairness, I have played tunes off CD, some of which I have downloaded on MP3 - but there are only three circumstances...

1) It's unreleased - i.e. a friend's track, or something.

2) It's a joke - i.e. a one off, one play thing which I wouldn't buy normally.

3) I cannot, for the life of me, track down a copy on wax.

[dan the acid man]

if were talking dance music then i have very few mp3's anyway, most of the mp3's i own are mix sets, and the small ammount of tracks i own, i own on vinyl too, one day i may get round to ripping all my vinyl as wav files, but to be honest it would take me ages, but i will do it someday.

as for other styles of music, then yes, i do sometimes try before i buy, but if i like it, i go and buy it

[SlavikSvensk]

i got in a huge argument with a friend of mine about this. his attitude is that he's being counter-cultural or something by ripping music. i told him that when he downloads mp3s of electronic artists, he's not fighting some corporate evil, but attacking the feeble economy of dance music, and making it harder and harder for this whole thing to work.

but there is one other ethical point to make...

is this ethically different from using pirated software? if so, why?

[UngratefulNinja]

I also rarely play tracks off cd.

If its something from a friend, or something I cannot find for the life of me (and believe me, I've tried, because there's only a handful of tunes I have been unable to track down) I'll have it on mp3 on my comp and may burn it to cd to play out.

Other than that however, I've always played just about everything on vinyl, because I know that without that kind of support (unless you run a good mp3 download service :) ) the music I love wouldn't be here in the same way it is today.

[gumpy green]

if anybody spots an artist doing this -playing out live in clubs earing cash from ripping folks off .....GRASS THEM UP.ther stealing from our scene and we want it to survive....dont we?

[FILTERZ]

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

[TechMouse]

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

Agreed.

The difference is, I can afford to spend a bit of money on vinyl now and then.

I can't afford to spunk a load on software.

[dan the acid man]

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

i agree, but micorosft are a bunch of money grabbing monopolising twats, allegedly :lol:

[Barely Human]

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

i agree, but micorosft are a bunch of money grabbing monopolising twats, allegedly :lol:

But then you could get into an ethics roundabout if you are illegally downloading a track made by an artist who used a cracked copy of fruityloops and a load of ripped samples

Work that one out... :lol:

[dan the acid man]

im sure every artist has used an illegal piece of software at some time

[Francisco Scaramanga]

When napster first hit the news a years back, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and downloaded feckloads of stuff. To be fair, it wasnt ever really dance music though, more like if there was some band that only ever did one good tune and I couldent be asked to buy the whole album I'd just download that one tune.

And I used to have no doubt thousands of pounds worth of cracked software as well.

But I slowly felt more and more guilty about it, and eventually decided to be honest about it all, and not rip people off (it helps that I have more money now than I did then).

So now I dont. I am admittedly using a ripped off copy of Reason 3, but I will pay for it, I only got a copy of Reason 2.5 6 months ago or something (and thats a bought copy) and now that I know Reason 3 is worth a few more bucks I'll dish it out when I can.

As for MP3's, I am still on soulseek, and I do use it, but primarily to download mixes, which I dont have any moral/ethical issues with. I also download the occasional track to check it out, but if I like it, I'll buy the real thing. If I dont like it, although it may still live on my hard drive, I dont listen to it, and so dont really feel guilty about having downloaded it. Every so often stuff like this gets rounded up and deleted anyway.

As for playing out with tunes that I've downloaded, well, I have played a few old funk tracks and that sort of thing, but they are impossible to find on any format, and the artists who did them may well be dead anyway, so I dont get bothered about that, but thats about it.

Downloading and playing out new tunes is unforgiveable if you ask me. If someone slipped in a classic or two that are impossible to get on vinyl I could probably forgive them, but not if its something that could easily be bought in the local record shop.

[SlavikSvensk]

i feel the same way, man...i can't use cracked software anymore because i know companies like propellerheads and native instruments make their whole livelihood off a very small number of sales. it does burn me up, though, that they price everything so high.

as for playing mp3s...i wouldn't do it because i don't want to steal from the community i feel a part of.

[daviec]

if anybody spots an artist doing this -playing out live in clubs earing cash from ripping folks off .....GRASS THEM UP.ther stealing from our scene and we want it to survive....dont we?

I got worried about this the other night when I was playing. I bought a legal mp3 from Xpress Beats, and burnt it to CD to play out. If you seen me in the club about to play a CDR with the track name handwritten on it, how would you react. How can you tell wether or not I paid for that track?

[RDR]

My attitude is that i wont download music i have paid for at some time in my life.

I also download mixes off radio 1 that i missed, although i dont keep em forever, if i like a tune ill go and search for it, but i need to hear a tune a few times to decide as i prefer music with longevity rather than stuff that wont last.

As for MP3 - either the way in which we pay for it changes or the industry dies. simple.

It works like this.

Everyone who isnt in the business and has the access will rip it, it doesnt even appear on their radar as a crime.

[massplanck]

hmmm.

How is downloading cracked software different from stealing music? Its not but....

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out. Just look in the free VST plugins folder for some great stuff to use with your er.. ed copy of cubase.

I suppose the difference is that ed software is generally as unstable as **** where as a copy of a mp3 is well.. a perfect copy. The instabilty of cracked versions of software et al drives or should drive a sane headed person who wants to take his music a step further into shelling out. Anyone who takes the piss and is getting a bit of an income from music & doesnt think about this shout be shot with their own ball of shite. If software didnt exist would you still be making music regardless? yess ... but on what ? shit you saved for.

[massplanck]

I got worried about this the other night when I was playing. I bought a legal mp3 from Xpress Beats, and burnt it to CD to play out. If you seen me in the club about to play a CDR with the track name handwritten on it, how would you react. How can you tell wether or not I paid for that track?

We'd question you backstage afterwards with the help of the doormen.

[Barely Human]

hmmm.

How is downloading cracked software different from stealing music? Its not but....

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out. Just look in the free VST plugins folder for some great stuff to use with your er.. ed copy of cubase.

I suppose the difference is that ed software is generally as unstable as **** where as a copy of a mp3 is well.. a perfect copy. The instabilty of cracked versions of software et al drives or should drive a sane headed person who wants to take his music a step further into shelling out. Anyone who takes the piss and is getting a bit of an income from music & doesnt think about this shout be shot with their own ball of shite. If software didnt exist would you still be making music regardless? yess ... but on what ? shit you saved for.

I dont know what cracked versions you have been using, but the ones i have used work perfectly. A crack only bypasses the registration issues and has nothing to do with the core program...