The MP3 question.

[crime]

ah, I getcha, like if all your music is legit why should you pay this extra levy? fair point...

[crime]

Make records and yall be alright.....tons of djs kicking about who luv wax and no piricy atol.

well, this is what I think.. Life is somewhat easier in germany so I don't get so riled i.e. thinking I'm missing out on $$$ etc, APART from the beurocracy, trying to go legit here at the mo, it's like a scene out of the film Brasil going to the finazamt to get a tax number.. at least everything works here pretty much..

[massplanck]

I think my point is that the next generation are starting to ditch wax (dont hit me) for CD decks because then you can spin pretty much anything in the way you spin vinyl. They have also been born into the whole P2P where as most older producers\dj's think vinyl is gonna last forever or something. As for the 'its will kill the music industry' issue well yes it could if its not sorted out soon. The difference when you copied tapes back in the day was that it was a job in itself to find the person with the album & then to copy the tape. Now you have pretty much every album ever free at the click of the mouse.

Like i said i got riled over this after a DJ told me he burns latest releases from P2P to CD and then plays them out. This is the way the kids are starting to do things unfortunatley. As for people handing each other Gbs and Gbs of stuff... thats a bit more than just 'copying a tape'.

I dunno. Live performances & merchandising seems to the sure fire way to bring in a bit of cash. Doesnt mean the music shouldnt either though.

How is WARPS online mp3\album download thingy doing (second time i have asked this) . Its Seems like a good model for things.

[SlavikSvensk]

bottom line is...PAY FOR YOUR MUSIC, KEEP TECHNO ALIVE!

[Joseph Isaac]

I don't think thats needed. Even if labels, even vinyl labels release all their back-catalog through random online stores, all thats required is a central, text based database to link everything up. With search functions and sorted by categories. Discogs style.

You search up a label and all links to any online stores selling their music would come up. Simple and easy and not run by anyone with a particular agenda. NO POLITICS.

Hmm sounds interesting. However, the streamlining of backed catalogs of thousands of labels into a single entity is overlooked with this approach. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, just pointing out some problems with it.

Massplanck suggested a single entity that has the database of all the music. If I understand you correctly, the music will be spread out amongst multiple online "mp3 stores" where you go a "main" text-based site to search for whatever track/catalog and it returns results from the number of mp3 stores where the catalogs/tracks are available with urls linked to the sites. That seems okay, but it for

1) its not in reference to what massplanck suggested and

2) there still exists a facet of control/power meaning someone/some entity will still have to develop the text-based site and create simple search functions or license searching from google . This still falls under the problem of financing and secondly, if it is something that isn't profitable or even sustainable, it may difficult to find someone who is willing to devote daily upkeep of such a site (open source maybe?, nah too many problems with that).

3) I was discussing an "itunes" style site and what problems would arise from it. The concept was to have a massive database of nearly all backstock and current stock of underground techno. There are advantages to this approach for all hindrances of the aforementioned model are minimized such as the payment system...who gets paid? How much? How are they paid? Who takes care of the licensing? If I understand your approach correctly then it seems each individual website that has the tracks/catalogs would have to handle this on their own. If there are 10+ sites, then this could create a number of financial and communication barriers especially with artists and labels getting paid.

I'm not bashing your idea, but i have been thinking about doing something like this for quite some time and it seems terribly difficult...

Thoughts?

[SlavikSvensk]

hmm...like gemm for mp3s...but i still think there is a serious problem when it comes to accounting. how are all the little labels and stores going to process tons and tons of orders for $1 tracks? for little labels, profit margins might need to be a but higher...

[ndamico]

as an artist you could be safe about it .......release only cd's that are mixed.........and all unmixed tracks on vinyl.....if some asshole wants to mix a MP3 ripped from vinyl than thats his lack of style and need for sound quality.....(no offense if any of you do). I personally am not satisfied with the sound quality of cd's and am still hoping that a more than stereo, higher freqeuncy/bitrate medium would come out....and be accepted.
I just recently built a studio with a friend and we went all legal...which I am proud of. I have no problem with cracked software ...just to try something. But I hate to say it ....not a soul is gonna install my legal software .....and I rarely lend legal CD's to people ....cause most poeple steal like there's no tomorrow..........even starving artists......
Hey man/woman ...you got the itch and not the cash ....by all means do what you need to do to make some choons........but for god sakes have respect for yourself .....your peers ...and the music ....and pay the people that make it possible for you.

[massplanck]

:clap:

a man wth passion.

[massplanck]

I know cataloging every single techno track ever released would be a littel bit too much but..

maybe we should just wipe the slate clean and figure out how little techno labels can start start pulling together to sell mp3's under some sort of umbrella.

You cant complain about people dowloading stolen music if the only way to download it is by stealing if you know what i mean.

[crime]

How is WARPS online mp3\album download thingy doing (second time i have asked this) . Its Seems like a good model for things.

Bleep.com?
Not sure, probably ok I would have thought, I mean it must generate some revenue, but I would imagine it's an older audience that are interested in warp, so are maybe more respectful ofpaying for stuff... as I say though you can come up with this way and that way to get around the problem, but the bottom line is it's never going to stop....

[TechMouse]

as an artist you could be safe about it .......release only cd's that are mixed.........

Currently, the Breaks scene is getting a lot of DJs (particularly in Spain) cutting tunes out of mixes and re-ediing the beginning and end.

True, it would be a bit more difficult with Techno, but still - not foolproof.

[sash]

howdy.

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.

It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".

The other thing that bothered me was that much of their stolen music was then imported to programs like ableton where they pre mixed fx tricks then burnt to disk. This sucked cuz while they're struggling to match their beats, some pre mixed fx trick is goin off and everyone thinks the dj's r doin it live. But on the flip side i felt like i gotta push myself harder and create my own build ups (like Adam Beyer ;) )

i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.

[Sunil]

Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.

It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".

The other thing that bothered me was that much of their stolen music was then imported to programs like ableton where they pre mixed fx tricks then burnt to disk. This sucked cuz while they're struggling to match their beats, some pre mixed fx trick is goin off and everyone thinks the dj's r doin it live. But on the flip side i felt like i gotta push myself harder and create my own build ups (like Adam Beyer ;) )

i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.

These guys you mention don't deserve to be playing in a club. Club managers/promoters should be wide to these people and have them ****ed out. Although I guess many mightn't care about it.

What annoys me is the guys that'll do their research in the shop, then go home and download the tracks, or the others that will actually copy down the names to a piece of paper as they are listening. It doesn't happen often at our shop, next time it does though there'll be trouble

[sash]

[quote="Sunil"] Club managers/promoters should be wide to these people and have them **** out. Although I guess many mightn't care about it.

quote]

The pressure of owning a club must b intense i assume. I don't think most managers/ promoters couldn't give a toss about illegal music being played at their clubs as long as the 'right' music is being played.

[Sunil]

The pressure of owning a club must b intense i assume. I don't think most managers/ promoters couldn't give a toss about illegal music being played at their clubs as long as the 'right' music is being played.

Exactly.

It's a shame djs such as these are employed though. Getting paid to steal from the scene basically. **** them.

[MARKEG]

howdy.

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.

It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".

The other thing that bothered me was that much of their stolen music was then imported to programs like ableton where they pre mixed fx tricks then burnt to disk. This sucked cuz while they're struggling to match their beats, some pre mixed fx trick is goin off and everyone thinks the dj's r doin it live. But on the flip side i felt like i gotta push myself harder and create my own build ups (like Adam Beyer ;) )

i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.

honestly mate don't worry about it. these guys will be in and out like fashion. dont' blame ableton, don't blame MP3's. ANYONE CANN BEATMATCH. it's not about this, it's about programming, it's about dropping the right sound at the right moment. i play 100% vinyl still when i play out, but let me on ableton for an hour and do the same thing and I WOULD get the same response. why? it's not ableton. it's the way you portray your music, the passion you show and the way you present your sound. i remember when ppl looked down their noses at CD's and then now they're everywhere.

technology doesn't scare me, but it scares too many ppl, even though they dont admit it. so they slag it. but SKILL and DEVOTION and PASSION shines through 100% of the time in music. DON T even worry about it. use it for what it is if you think it will improve your sound, but don't worry about it.

[man_d]

Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.

It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".

i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.

I know you said that bloke fessed up about not paying for those tunes but I'm quite surprised that people seem to be immediately assuming they've nicked them from a p2p network.

My other half always has loads of tunes with him on cd when he's playing somewhere. Never occured to me that anyone would think the tracks were stolen, cos they're not. The decks and mixer are hooked into the Mac so he can play a record through and record it onto the hard drive, then burn it onto cd. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that, but would you assume the tracks weren't paid for, rather than something he bought and put into a different format? Weird, I'd never thought might look like that's what he's done.

He does it so he's got more stuff he can play without giving himself a hernia carrying tons of vinyl about. I know another dj who does the same thing so he can mix a tune from one side into the track on the flipside without having to carry two copies of the same record about.

I never got into p2p sharing, mainly because you couldn't do it on a Mac. Napster didn't work and it all seemed a big too much trouble if you ever *did* manage to find anything to then download it on dialup!

[lunatrick]

I don't believe the practise is that widespread - how many people are going to bother recording a record, so they can give it away for nothing on p2p? not that many surely in techno terms, as stated above it would be more likely people recording cd's for their own use, to save carrying around the vinyl. If CD seems the way to go, then maybe the small labels should just start selling cd singles? I realise this will push up their manufacturing costs tho.... Personally I rip my cd's I've bought to my computer just for ease of listening,
but one thing that nobody on here has mentioned is the effect of p2p has had on the music buying public's appetite.....it has increased it. Music sales in the uk in 2004 were the largest recorded in history, now I know this doesn't necessarily translate into sales for small labels around these parts, and you could argue that the mainstream artists are just selling more copies cheaper...............but it proves a point - the more music people have (illegal or not) the more they want, remember video didn't kill the cinema - it re-invented it.

I'm sure we will soon see labels selling downloads, some have already started - truelove, trackitdown and no doubt lots of others. Paying a quid for a banging track is a bargain, add 20 pence for a blank cd and voila! and is probably more profitable for the label who only a make a quid or two on a 12", before long everybody will be offering this service or getting another company to offer it for them, it's inevitable, it's just that there will be a period of instability as the market settles down, but to steal tracks at that price is taking the p*ss, I'd rather have a top quality guaranteed to play to the end track and pay my money.

Personally though I would rather watch somebody mix on a pair of decks (vinyl or CD) than watch a laptop set.....'Hey dude check out my mouse action...' :lol: :lol: it's not very rock and roll is it?

[dirty_bass]

honestly mate don't worry about it. these guys will be in and out like fashion. dont' blame ableton, don't blame MP3's. ANYONE CANN BEATMATCH. it's not about this, it's about programming, it's about dropping the right sound at the right moment. i play 100% vinyl still when i play out, but let me on ableton for an hour and do the same thing and I WOULD get the same response. why? it's not ableton. it's the way you portray your music, the passion you show and the way you present your sound. i remember when ppl looked down their noses at CD's and then now they're everywhere.

technology doesn't scare me, but it scares too many ppl, even though they dont admit it. so they slag it. but SKILL and DEVOTION and PASSION shines through 100% of the time in music. DON T even worry about it. use it for what it is if you think it will improve your sound, but don't worry about it.

That post is so on point you could prick yourself with it.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[dirty_bass]

I don't believe the practise is that widespread - how many people are going to bother recording a record, so they can give it away for nothing on p2p?

Pick a new techno release
wait about a week
and search on soulseek
you`ll find it