Live PA's methods

[nova]

anyways. thats harsh calling i a ****ing fake. i nerver said anyone had played from a dat. read back. i think youve got on your high horse there sorry

[holotropik]

Playing Live is definately subject to much controversy of late.

A basic rule of thumb is that the music must be produced by the person(s) playing it, it must be from hardware of some description and it must be predominantly improvised from sound sources produced by said artist(s).

the last point is the most difficult part to define. The ideal that if the performer does nothing then the music goes nowhere is the important point.

Ableton has also stirred much debate as (1) - it uses a laptop PC which can be rather boring visually (2) - subject to debate on level of improvisation as tracks can be pre-sequenced at whatever length leaving either heaps of improvisation or not much which you dont know unless you are standing behind the performer(s).

Probably the most notable thing to comment with regards to Live music is the element of the performer and the "magic" that occurs from an artist blending with an instrument "to become one" so that there is the communication from artist through instrument to audience.

In the past a guitarist made the obvious connection (as someone mentioned Jimmy Hendrix) to the audience. You could stand there and plainly see that this guy was playing an instrument and through that sight/hearing combination you were able to get immersed in the artists headspace somehow and feel part of it all. Thats the key to playing Live and reaching out to the audience and giving them part of you.

In order to do that it takes a certain level of commitment from the artist to "jump off the cliff" and play the instrument so that it is like part of yourself. Thats why the good guitarists have reached that level after playing till their fingers bleed and they can do it in their sleep. (also why the Samurai were one with the sword).....hehehe.

So if what you do to play live puts you into that frame of mind that makes you commit to the process with everything you have then it can be said to be Live. No matter what you use in order to do that. Its about the commitment in terms of focus and intent. (Like in an extreme sport when, say, you want to base-jump of a cliff into a valley - you must commit 100% to the act or you will come unstuck and crash).

[holotropik]

Having said all that and had some time to think....

The whole Ableton thing presents another realm where a producer of music can now present a piece of work to an audience in a way that is much the same as a DJ does (a recent example for me is "The Divide - My Twisted Emotions" Ableton mix). A seamless string of music that can motivate a dance-floor, albeit, music that is personally produced and programmed by that said producer.

this is different than "Live" as considered by most before the advent of Ableton etc.

therefore it is equally valid yet different and should be differentiated and promoted in an artistic way as such. It is still difficult to do and is creatively valid and takes advantage of technology. (ie: "artist name" - Live Production Set) - or something to that effect) ??? I dont know ???

its a tricky one that shall have its place....any thoughts?

[Tyrisia]

I'm not goin to have an Ableton discussion, i'm just gonna learn how to use it to best potential, play it like an instrument, get the best out of it, and rape my bare loops for all they're worth.

[Tyrisia]

And if i can give somethin different to every crowd i play to, and people wanna call it a PA, then good for them!

[JohnnySideways]

that K90 thing is a ****in joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show..

[EmotionComplex]

that K90 thing is a **** joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show..

i had the opportunity to get a good lookat what he was upto last year as i was playing after him, he might aswell just of been playing a mix cd and dancing to it!

a midi keyboard was set up for no apparant reason and every now and then hes tap some keys and dance about,a laptop that was just playing his tracks as audio tracks in logic, i could see them all in order and he must of exported them all at the same tempo so it was just a matter of arrangeing them in order before he left the house.

and a big mixer which wasnt needed either as he was plugged into the dj mixer from it, he could of just taken a direct output from his laptop into it.

i mean to most people there it must of looked pretty good as they wouldnt of know but when you realise what hes upto its just embaracing to watch really, he should of just did a dj set and playedhis stuff on vinyl
:roll:

[dirty_bass]

The problem I see is that Live PA`s are getting more popular, as people are getting a little tired of people playing records, there`s a really good article about this, in digital DJ Mag, with a surprisingly down to earth and on point interview with Sasha.
Anyway, lots of DJ`s are suddenly doing "live" PA`s, so they still get booked, when all they are doing is mixing their tunes on Ableton, it kinda makes a mockery of people who spend a lot of time on their PA`s.
For me, a live PA for a 1 hour gig, is a weeks work.
And I`m just starting to work on a 2 man, battle PA, with one of the collective, which is gonna be even more work.

[Tyrisia]

diss the lazy f***ers that ain't usin it properly.

but to diss Ableton itself as a program, that can be used to produce just as malleable, versatile, and dare i say it, more advanced a set as any hardware, which can be performed as opposed to played, just like hardware, seems to me to be a little bit off.

coz that's takin away the credit from those who are usin it like hardware to perform great PA's, which is very insulting and unfair, they have probably put alot of time and effort into practising and perfecting, and that shouldn't be taken away from them by ignorance.

[dirty_bass]

diss the lazy f***ers that ain't usin it properly.

but to diss Ableton itself as a program, that can be used to produce just as malleable, versatile, and dare i say it, more advanced a set as any hardware, which can be performed as opposed to played, just like hardware, seems to me to be a little bit off.

coz that's takin away the credit from those who are usin it like hardware to perform great PA's, which is very insulting and unfair, they have probably put alot of time and effort into practising and perfecting, and that shouldn't be taken away from them by ignorance.

Oh for sure, ableton is amazing, but unfortunately users of it will get a little lumped into those that use it as little more than a DJ tool.
But as a piece of kit for creative Live PA performance, it is fantasitc.
Although I still like to see more than a guy with a laptop and a mouse, it looks so lame.
Controllers and toys are needed.

[Tyrisia]

Although I still like to see more than a guy with a laptop and a mouse, it looks so lame.
Controllers and toys are needed.

Loadsa controllers, indeed, there aint no way i'd even want to go near a mouse onstage, too much time wasted and the possibility for f**kin it up in a moment of excitement is immense.

But as we all know, Ableton can be used as an mpc with a big screen, and with all the right buttons to push and knobs to tweek, would probably not look an awful lot different to a hardware performance.

And it'd still be a hell of a lot less to get on n off the plane :lol:

[Komplex]

Did you call him out on it? I hope you didn't just keep your mouth shut and look the other way...

that K90 thing is a **** joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show..

i had the opportunity to get a good lookat what he was upto last year as i was playing after him, he might aswell just of been playing a mix cd and dancing to it!

a midi keyboard was set up for no apparant reason and every now and then hes tap some keys and dance about,a laptop that was just playing his tracks as audio tracks in logic, i could see them all in order and he must of exported them all at the same tempo so it was just a matter of arrangeing them in order before he left the house.

and a big mixer which wasnt needed either as he was plugged into the dj mixer from it, he could of just taken a direct output from his laptop into it.

i mean to most people there it must of looked pretty good as they wouldnt of know but when you realise what hes upto its just embaracing to watch really, he should of just did a dj set and playedhis stuff on vinyl
:roll:

[RDR]

There's nothing inherently wrong in playing a full track in a live set. Its there are plenty of reasons to do it. Going to the loo is a major, major one.. hahahahaha!

But seriously, if im going to do it i usually chop the track up so i can edit and extend on the fly, there are some tracks that i know work a dancefloor. The tracks are my productions and no-one else's.

Which brings me to the other point, I dont like P.A.'s that use other peoples music, or loops from already released tracks that arent theirs. In my book it's dishonest to do this and call yourself a live PA.

Just MO.

[holotropik]

I couldnt imagine producing this music without having the desire to play it live.....straight from the source.

[holotropik]

Present the sounds for what they are in a Live way.

You dont have the liberty of pre-sequencing the setup of the sounds. Rather you can personally deliver them in a way that presents them for what they are in a more pure and naive sense.


....sorry bout that :? thats all I can think of for now.

sound for the sake of sound.