VINYL or MP3?

[Heroes]

Also, I think Heroes said something along the lines of techno record sales being only a quarter of what they were 2 years ago. Well, as you said you dont DJ, so maybe you havent been spending much time in clubs, but I reckon average club attendance for techno nights has probably dropped by nearly the same factor. The only conclusion I can draw from those two factors are that techno simply isn't as popular as it once was.

did i say techno? did i not comment on art, music & film, in general with no genre but just general? my argument is not about techno or though does not dj so though maybee does not spend much time in clubs....but though probably knows many who do, so iam aware of whats happening.......

I think the whole dance music thing probably made alot of people rich, but I just hope all those who made the bucks put them in a bank account rather than the usual rock star style piss it up the wall and bang lots of sluts, cause just like every other kind of music, eventually the boom ends, and then the backlash comes, and then those who reckoned things would be like the goodtimes forever end up like all the others who crashed and burned when disco went dead, or glam rock, or jazz fusion, or any other trend that came and went - they end up broke and bitter.

mines not bitter due to the end of a scene because i dont think thats the case its just an analysis about the piracy levels and its alarming rate.

[tocsin]

quote: No. My attitude is merely honest. Honest in the way that "techno" once used to be. It places blame for lack of sales where it belongs, on the person producing and selling the goods.

what a crock of ****

It's not a crock. It's the honest truth. All of the music that got me into "techno" made heavy usage of uncleared samples. Even producers here, some who are complaining in this very thread, have publicly admitted to pirating software. The criminal element has been present in techno in so many ways and, all of a sudden when a handful of labels or artists unfairly feel that "piracy" is killing their ability to pay rent with their music, all of a sudden it's bad? That's the crock of shit.

you sound bitter to a point, have you been burnt by or had a record label go down or a shop get repossed.

I'm not bitter at all. Unlike a number of vocal people here, I'm quite happy with the way things are. I see positive things in the future and am not foolish enough to believe that piracy will kill music. Do you have any idea how many times such a claim has been made, only to have the same people making that claim adopt the feared cause of their demise and exploit it for all it's worth? It didn't happen then and it won't happen now. The industry may change shape but music isn't going anywhere. Somehow, music survived long before there was any means to record it on plastic.

piracy allows no adaption, its there festering everything.....

And drugs are badd, mmmmkaaayyy? :p

Ok, my mistake, everything is peachy.

*YAWN*

[Francisco Scaramanga]

Heroes, first of all I would like to say that I didnt really mean to be offensive or personal or anything in my last post, its just that a few of your comments pushed my buttons if you know what I mean. And to be fair, most of it wansnt actually very relevant, although I did mean all of it.

Anyway, I'll address the issue of piracy over the whole of the music industry, and the film industry for that matter.

I dont think its really all that bad. As Tocsin has already said, most people who are pirating stuff probably wouldent buy it anyway. But on top of that, the technology that allows us to pirate also allows us to get more music/media to more people faster and easier and cheaper than anyone ever imagined possible. Its just a question of harnessing that awesome power to make money. And someone is working out how to do it right now. It'll take time, but this digital revolution is definately the future, and theres nothing anyone can do to change it.

I work in a commercial record store that aint doin so good at the moment, and I will proably end up losing my job as a result of all of this, which is pretty gutting, but I am excited by the prospects for the future, so I am prepared to roll with the punches.

Also, I dont think piracy is much worse now than at other points in time, when cassette recorders came out, the industry was convinced that it would kill sales, same with CD burners, and now MP3 is the big scare, but shit is still going to sell.

It really is too late to stop it, downloads are included in the singles chart now, its here to stay, whoever embraces it and makes it work for them will come out on top, and those who hate on it will ultimately lose out.

[massplanck]

I have mates who use to to buy lots of music (not vinyls) and now d/l constantly and hand out DVDs of albums to their mates for nothing who now in turn buy no music.

Just because 5 people are sharing a song on Soulseek doesnt mean that their arent 500 copies knocking about of it *not* being shared or being burnt and handed out willy nilly.

I have to say though Glenn et al. Get all your back catalogue up on the web for d/l as legit mp3s if you can.

Anyway. I like touching things in my hands and i hate little yellow folders full of shitty bitrate mp3's. I value music more than that.

[massplanck]

What about artwork... & holding the thing in your hand and marvelling at it AWAY from the glare of a computer screen ?

I always thought the packaging\design was an integral part of the experience...

Times are changing & its the <((PhUture!))> for sure. But things are gonna get a bit watered down i fear. I dont want to have to be near a ****ing computer to get my full **experience**.. ;)

And how many years away is it untill we have the capability to be downloading full lenght WAV's or a better format as opposed to shitty bitrates..?

[tocsin]

There's nothing stopping you from downloading a full length wav aside from bandwidth now. There's also "lossless compression" which can be used and is available free of charge. It won't compress as a nice as a 320kbit MP3. But, if you can truly hear the difference, push people to use the lossless codec. Personally, I've never cared about packaging. It usually gets lost or damaged somewhere along the way. I just want the sounds and I'm quite happy with mp3. As it stands, I can listen to mp3 in my car, where I do most of my listening to music, thanks to the wonder of a $40 discman.

[Heroes]

quote: Also, I dont think piracy is much worse now than at other points in time, when cassette recorders came out, the industry was convinced that it would kill sales, same with CD burners, and now MP3 is the big scare, but shit is still going to sell.

ok you start dubbing tapes and mailing to freinds and ill start ripping discs, because thats the scarry part i feel across anything. i know piracies there it always has been and always will be, iam up for no argument iam just saying its network was slow enough that we could control. but the digital age of music is still is grim to a point, i could make and album upload it and it could be around the world in every continet and in the hands of 1000 people withing hours of complitions and that for me a s a self confessed gadget freak is ****ing mind boggling. i actually bought the ipod upon its release, iam not saying iam f**ck of mp3 you dirty bitrat b******d, all iam saying is there will be a knock on, for consumer probably not, but from industry i think so. it depends on what side of the fence you lie, i lie both on the industry and consumer which i respectfully view to supporting the future, i alway purchase music, but i feel we are at virgin ground with edjucation the 1st generation is in place and in that there is a concious attitude to beat the system, my son came home from school and asked me to copy greendays album because loads of kids knew his dad was into music with studio and gadgets, i nearly f*****g fell of my chair even the teacher wanted a copy.....

as quick as there comes an answer theres a crack, as long as you have a signal out you will get a signal in............i do however feel sorry for the poor woman who got fined £3000 for her daughters habit.....i think this is gonna be a hot one for the future

anyway its been a very healthy discussion.....

[Komplex]

I think this argument can be put to rest. For anyone who has come in late, this is the gist of it:

Heroes is the typical sounding big label guy and Tocsin is the typical sounding artist AND consumer.

Heroes has it in for Tocsin and Tocsin has it in for Heroes because they have a difference of oppinion due to their position in the matter. Heroes is a big daddy label guy and Tocsin is a random artist. Heroes wants to keep being rewarded with money and hasn't saved his pennies and Tocsin just cares about the music because he also works a day job. Heroes thinks that mp3 is hurting his labels' sales and Tocsin says its due to the music not being in demand. Heroes doesn't like to hear this and calls Tocsin a tosser. Tocsin doesn't like people talking bad about digital music either.

They both disagree about the reasons why Heroes' labels are loosing money and it has become an argument on a personal level. A battle of the egos that won't be resolved till Heroes realises that there is no going back to the golden days of vinyl and a high demand market or till Tocsin shuts up and says "you're right, it was mp3's fault. lets stop arguing" (even tho he may not really mean it)

close the thread... its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before (except for network).

heres a quote for next time:

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...

[MARKEG]

its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before

i totally agree with you komplex... closed thread.

[tocsin]

Fine, close the thread. But, believe it or not, I don't have it in for labels. However, I'm not going to pretend that it would bother me for a second if vinyl disappeared off the face of the earth. From my own personal stake in it, my dedication to digital is less of a sales/distribution thing and more of an expression thing. Like I said earlier, I'm a panning freak when it comes to kick drums. I really can't get the result I desire on vinyl. The mono bass just doesn't hit the same as a thump that bounces between speakers on a proper set up. For that reason alone, vinyl is less desirable to me. And, for the most part, that's an aspect that often goes untouched in these discussions.

[dirty_bass]

no the problems with vinyl limitations has been discussed many many times.

I think the problem that supercedes most of the arguments in terms of sound quality is the fact that the majority of clubs have wack sounsystems.
Total rubbish.
And most rigs are run in mono.

This needs to imporve.

[tocsin]

Rigs don't have to run mono. The rig belonging to the crew I play the most with is not run in mono. So, that's a non-factor for me. The type of music I play doesn't have any place at a club around my way anyways. It's not welcomed. There aren't many clubs left that welcome 200+ bpm techno.

[dirty_bass]

Rigs don't have to run mono. The rig belonging to the crew I play the most with is not run in mono. So, that's a non-factor for me. The type of music I play doesn't have any place at a club around my way anyways. It's not welcomed. There aren't many clubs left that welcome 200+ bpm techno.

Of course they don`t have to run in mono.
I`ve been running and installing em for years.
The fact is, most are run in mono, mostly down to the fact that the speakers aren`t set up for stereo placement, and also due to split stacks, a myriad of reasons.

[tocsin]

Still, that's a human factor, not a technology factor. So, I don't humor it. Hell, a number of clubs around here have stereo. Amon Tobin has done 5.1 performances here. I got to hear the Orb play a set in stereo at a club a couple years ago as well. Even with an ideal stereo ste up, vinyl cannot take full advantage. It's something to be taken into consideration.

[The Divide]

I wish someone would get off their ass and setup a decent mp3 website store...

*you know who you are you goat shagger* :lol:

Mite try it myself via my site, 50p a track anyone. If I sell 6 I can buy a pint

No seriously tho, I really want not the mp3 but the online sale of audio to take off. Even if it doesnt work out for me personally at least its a great way of putting music out there all over the world

I think we tend to take the internet for granted sometimes

[Komplex]

Hey cool, topics still open ;)

I wish someone would get off their ass and setup a decent mp3 website store...

www.foryourears.com is already set up and running, so is www.beatport.com and quite a few others (I've only dealt with the 2 mentioned)

its just a matter of labels pulling their finger out and throwing their back catalogue and/or new releases online.

I've been buying up plenty of high bitrate tracks lately cus it sounds much better than recording them off vinyl (which just sits there and I don't play). All the music I like, I hunt down and buy high bit versions, its just a pity that most labels don't have their shit available online. Pirate the fckers then :lol: (joking... relax)

[Heroes]

I think this argument can be put to rest. For anyone who has come in late, this is the gist of it:

not lets get it right

Heroes is the typical sounding big label guy and Tocsin is the typical sounding artist AND consumer.

Heroes has it in for Tocsin and Tocsin has it in for Heroes because they have a difference of oppinion due to their position in the matter. Heroes is a big daddy label guy and Tocsin is a random artist. Heroes wants to keep being rewarded with money and hasn't saved his pennies and Tocsin just cares about the music because he also works a day job. Heroes thinks that mp3 is hurting his labels' sales and Tocsin says its due to the music not being in demand. Heroes doesn't like to hear this and calls Tocsin a tosser. Tocsin doesn't like people talking bad about digital music either.

They both disagree about the reasons why Heroes' labels are loosing money and it has become an argument on a personal level. A battle of the egos that won't be resolved till Heroes realises that there is no going back to the golden days of vinyl and a high demand market or till Tocsin shuts up and says "you're right, it was mp3's fault. lets stop arguing" (even tho he may not really mean it)

close the thread... its going round n round n round n round in circles... we all know both sides of the story (label vs artist vs consumer) , we've heard it all before (except for network).

heres a quote for next time:

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...

komplex i hope to f**k you not getting on ya binary horse and calling me an idiot you f*****g convict, dont mess with me ill f*****g eat your wobble for breakfast you noooob, looosen your handcuffs and read the quibles i have. its not about digital, if it was why am i building a f****cking mp3 frontend shop for my web page? why is my stuff avaialbe on www.trackidown.com. My argument or disagreement with toscin is not from a big label guy point of view who didnt save his pennies its from some one whos pissed of with the level of piracy thats going on, as is half of every ****ing music, art, film person out there. Calling me an idiot you dont wanna f****g do i tell ya because ive been there, through longer harder paths than you, which took a lot more time, skill & knowledge to survive. Infact it took a hell of a lot more than your pitifull set up of

ftp://????????
user:????????
password:?????

you wanna rethink that idiot jibe

[Dustin Zahn]

Who gives a **** which medium anyone on here chooses? In the end all labels end up forgetting about the casual listener, which is the market the electronic music scene forgot to target sales to since the beginning. Instead of arguing about formats, people should be trying to figure out how to get it into non-DJ hands. DJs are a dying breed, but the casual listener will live on till we all end up nuking each other.

Here's an idea: meet in the middle. Put the DJ-friendly cuts on vinyl and 3 minute "radio" mixes for sale on the web. That way you target DJs and general music fans.

[The Overfiend]

I'm locking this.
For the Record
Glenn ain't a Martyr.
Stop attackin'.
It's Bullshit already.

[dirty_bass]

I`m unlocking this to say, WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?
Why is this getting so shitty?
These are real hard times, and the whole thing needs holding together and building anew, not knocking the **** down.
I really think we should all stop attacking each other and get on with pulling our asses together, showing a bit of unity, and taking what we have forwards, and with a more positive light.
And yeah, we can all get a bit cynical, but we are intelligent people. This scene is full of intelligent people with really outstanding ideas and theories.
Lets use that to build, not to ****ing destroy, or what it the point?