Ghost writers

[Sunil]

Well from once sticking up for Liebing before on this forum when people were having a pop at him, I've now noticed how little credit he deserves for the sound he apparantly developed, and you just need to listen to any Andre Walter 12" to hear it. I could imagine some of the guys we're talking about doing collabs with Eric Morillo if it got them further up that ladder, sad but true I think.

In saying this I've interviewed Liebing and Bailey and asked them about this before, and neither of them hide the fact that they use a co-producer, in fact Liebing did credit Walter as the main force of the Stigmata releases. Bailey does maintain that he has the biggest input into the tune writing, but says that Hades and Redhead are handier in the studio than him. While these ghost producers may be happy to hide in the background it's not particularly admirable that someone else is taking all the credit. That said, this is no new phenomenon in techno. Loads of producers have used engineers or co-producers in the past... DJ Hell is an obvious example.

[Jay Pace]

A film director doesn't know the ins and outs of the cutting room, post production, makeup, lighting & special FX, but will still happily take the credit for the direction. And rightly so.

A band will have lyrics, arrangement, performance & production credits.

The architect Gehry is renowned for giving people his vision without much steer how they are to achieve it.

Classical sculptors used to have workshops full of statues their apprentices worked on. And sure as eggs the apprentices were not credited with the statues they made, as they were made under someone elses direction.

Plenty of poetry and literature has been practically unreadable prior to the intervention of a talented editor. Author still takes credit for the vision though.

Vision and direction are the key features of music.

Computer music is still in its infancy compared to other art forms.

[dirty_bass]

A film director doesn't know the ins and outs of the cutting room, post production, makeup, lighting & special FX, but will still happily take the credit for the direction. And rightly so.

A band will have lyrics, arrangement, performance & production credits.

The architect Gehry is renowned for giving people his vision without much steer how they are to achieve it.

Classical sculptors used to have workshops full of statues their apprentices worked on. And sure as eggs the apprentices were not credited with the statues they made, as they were made under someone elses direction.

Plenty of poetry and literature has been practically unreadable prior to the intervention of a talented editor. Author still takes credit for the vision though.

Vision and direction are the key features of music.

Computer music is still in its infancy compared to other art forms.

So you use a ghost producer then ;)

[Sunil]

Bloody shocking, espesh after reading an interview where liebing was
banging on about bring a more heavy metal feel to techno....i right pal!!

Well, he wants all the kids that buy Slipknot CDs to buy his CD too.
And guess what his and Speedy J's forthcoming LP is called?
"Metalism".

[dirty_bass]

Bloody shocking, espesh after reading an interview where liebing was
banging on about bring a more heavy metal feel to techno....i right pal!!

Well, he wants all the kids that buy Slipknot CDs to buy his CD too.
And guess what his and Speedy J's forthcoming LP is called?
"Metalism".

Hey can anyone hear the BeeGees?

"tradgedy"

[gumpy green]

Well from once sticking up for Liebing before on this forum when people were having a pop at him, I've now noticed how little credit he deserves for the sound he apparantly developed, and you just need to listen to any Andre Walter 12" to hear it. I could imagine some of the guys we're talking about doing collabs with Eric Morillo if it got them further up that ladder, sad but true I think.

In saying this I've interviewed Liebing and Bailey and asked them about this before, and neither of them hide the fact that they use a co-producer, in fact Liebing did credit Walter as the main force of the Stigmata releases. Bailey does maintain that he has the biggest input into the tune writing, but says that Hades and Redhead are handier in the studio than him. While these ghost producers may be happy to hide in the background it's not particularly admirable that someone else is taking all the credit. That said, this is no new phenomenon in techno. Loads of producers have used engineers or co-producers in the past... DJ Hell is an obvious example.

makes me wonder why they do it...

i wouldnt want my name on a track that i knew i couldnt write.....unless...... :?:

[gumpy green]

is this why soo many folks dont play live aswell????

cos they coudnt find someone that looks like them to do the work.

[FuK-NuT]

A film director doesn't know the ins and outs of the cutting room, post production, makeup, lighting & special FX, but will still happily take the credit for the direction. And rightly so.

A band will have lyrics, arrangement, performance & production credits.

The architect Gehry is renowned for giving people his vision without much steer how they are to achieve it.

Classical sculptors used to have workshops full of statues their apprentices worked on. And sure as eggs the apprentices were not credited with the statues they made, as they were made under someone elses direction.

Plenty of poetry and literature has been practically unreadable prior to the intervention of a talented editor. Author still takes credit for the vision though.

Vision and direction are the key features of music.

Computer music is still in its infancy compared to other art forms.

So you use a ghost producer then ;)

:lol:

[TechMouse]

A film director doesn't know the ins and outs of the cutting room, post production, makeup, lighting & special FX, but will still happily take the credit for the direction. And rightly so.

Direction is not cinematography, is not editing, is not CGI etc. I think most people appreciate this, and by and large people get appropriately credited on films.

Unfortunately there's a lot more mystique in music production, and so it's much easier for due credit to get handed out inappropriately. It's the same kind of mentality that allows the Britneys of this world to masquerade as "artistes" when in fact they're little more than glorified session singers.

I guess at the end of the day everybody knows exactly how much time / effort they've put into whatever they claim to have done, and they have to live with it. I know I wouldn't be happy if I'd been credited with a load of stuff that I knew in my heart of hearts was someone else's work.

[dan the acid man]

is this why soo many folks dont play live aswell????

cos they coudnt find someone that looks like them to do the work.

im going to get around that problem by getting someone to dress in a full gorilla suit :lol: :lol:

[TechMouse]

is this why soo many folks dont play live aswell????

cos they coudnt find someone that looks like them to do the work.

im going to get around that problem by getting someone to dress in a full gorilla suit :lol: :lol:

You doing jungle sets now?

(I'll get me coat...)

[Jay Pace]

So you use a ghost producer then ;)

If I did I'd want much better results ;)

Two good friends of mine fell out over this. One very talented D&B dj, the other a well established producer. They collaborated and the result was the biggest selling track the producer had ever written, released on Renegade Hardware and considered one of the best tracks of the year.

They fell out massively because the producer refused to recognise the contribution of the dj. He felt that he made the track - the technical work was his, it was him sitting in front of the computer - ergo it was all his work.

The dj knew what would work on the dancefloor and had a vision for how it should sound. Having direction made all the difference.

Said producer is know doing good stuff on planet Mu but may never see the same record sales.

Credit where credit's due.

Tricksy one.

[gumpy green]

is this why soo many folks dont play live aswell????

cos they coudnt find someone that looks like them to do the work.

im going to get around that problem by getting someone to dress in a full gorilla suit :lol: :lol:

i thought you were a little hairy but i wouldnt say you looked like a gorilla ;)

[gumpy green]

So you use a ghost producer then ;)

If I did I'd want much better results ;)

Two good friends of mine fell out over this. One very talented D&B dj, the other a well established producer. They collaborated and the result was the biggest selling track the producer had ever written, released on Renegade Hardware and considered one of the best tracks of the year.

They fell out massively because the producer refused to recognise the contribution of the dj. He felt that he made the track - the technical work was his, it was him sitting in front of the computer - ergo it was all his work.

The dj knew what would work on the dancefloor and had a vision for how it should sound. Having direction made all the difference.

Said producer is know doing good stuff on planet Mu but may never see the same record sales.

Credit where credit's due.

Tricksy one.

i see your point.....defo one to think baout but...

i can hear shit in my head that i want to put onto my track, been ravin it up for 13 or so yrs so i no what will rock the crowd on the dancefloor etc...

now i havent got the skillz to put these ideas onto a track.

so i have 2 choices........1 get a ghost writer or this could be a little hard work and effort......LEARN HOW TO USE ABLETON OR WHATEVA HARWARE SOFTWARE i want and do it myself..

1 way stands out to be much more satisfying to myself.

[dan the acid man]

:lol:
actually thinking about this, i wonder if theres big producers out there producing rock albums etc, who dont do any engineering, as most of these kind of albums are engineered by other people, and when you see those making of documentarys, you vey rarely see the producers twiddling any knobs

[TechMouse]

:lol:
actually thinking about this, i wonder if theres big producers out there producing rock albums etc, who dont do any engineering, as most of these kind of albums are engineered by other people, and when you see those making of documentarys, you vey rarely see the producers twiddling any knobs

Producing in a "rock" context is different to producing in an electronic context.

90% of the work is positioning mics and eliciting a good performance from musicians.

[Jimfish]

I used to do this a lot a few years ago and have probably more than a dozen records that i wrote floating about with other peoples names on them. I have to say that all the people who ever came to do this were complete tools and didnt have a clue about what is needed to make a sweet track. Most of them were just cheesy knobs wanting to inflate thier egos a little. I am sure there are some examples where this is not true, but generally i have found that the kind of people who want to 'use an engineer' (in the dance music sense) are more often than not, complete ****ing retards..

Hey then there is 'ghost djing' - apparently dave pierce (the fat trance guy) used to have someone back stage doing the mixing while he stood out the front soakin' up the love and doing the whole jesus on the cross bit while pretending to mix occasionally.. ****ing makes my stomach turn

[TechMouse]

Hey then there is 'ghost djing' - apparently dave pierce (the fat trance guy) used to have someone back stage doing the mixing while he stood out the front soakin' up the love and doing the whole jesus on the cross bit while pretending to mix occasionally.. **** makes my stomach turn

Does anyone else find that borderline offensive?

[gumpy green]

I used to do this a lot a few years ago and have probably more than a dozen records that i wrote floating about with other peoples names on them. I have to say that all the people who ever came to do this were complete tools and didnt have a clue about what is needed to make a sweet track. Most of them were just cheesy knobs wanting to inflate thier egos a little. I am sure there are some examples where this is not true, but generally i have found that the kind of people who want to 'use an engineer' (in the dance music sense) are more often than not, complete **** retards..

Hey then there is 'ghost djing' - apparently dave pierce (the fat trance guy) used to have someone back stage doing the mixing while he stood out the front soakin' up the love and doing the whole jesus on the cross bit while pretending to mix occasionally.. **** makes my stomach turn

agree...

that ghost djing is just lame utter lame......im only glad its getting spun to folks that prob dont care

[orac]

Hey then there is 'ghost djing' - apparently dave pierce (the fat trance guy) used to have someone back stage doing the mixing while he stood out the front soakin' up the love and doing the whole jesus on the cross bit while pretending to mix occasionally.. **** makes my stomach turn

don't know him but...hahaha what a bitch! i'm angry when i'm reading about people like this, wtf is this, yeah c'mon let's destroy techno lol