time for an education?

[RedRob]

howyas.
im finishin up work after four years early '06. for the first time in a while ill be free to roam where i please with no ties at all. been thinkin of doin a bit of a college thing, rather than sittin on me arse. been lookin at music technology courses, sound engineering etc but most of the courses i've checked out in dublin are either really expensive and/or have a load of stuff in em that ive no interest in at all eg, whole modules on micing up a recording studio or gettin a guitar to sound real good with this amp n effect blah blah. ive mates who've done some of em and they're reccomending that i dont due to the reasons stated above.

i basically wanna just take my knowledge of electronic music production that bit further and fill in the gaps. wanna mainly focus on producing techno tracks. there are short courses i could do here in reason/ableton/cubase but i have a general idea of how to use em all anyway. also have a good knowledge of midi, decent enough synth programming skills and experience of hardware in the studio(although i get on better with software). problem is, when im workin on tunes i keep hittin brick walls, i know where i want to take the tune but there is alot of technical knowledge that im missing out.

maybe if i stuck a usb cable up my nose and ingested the 'techno production forum' id be sorted but technology hasnt come that far yet. so im just wondering if any of you people would know of any studios/colleges in the uk that run good courses. full time/part time/crash course, its all good .there is a possibility that if i put in hours and hours workin on tunes myself ill suss out all i need to know but i wouldnt mind havin someone who is good and knows what theyre on about just to guide me along the way and speed up the process a bit.

maybe im lookin for a magic course that doesnt exist, maybe i just have to slog it out. or maybe there is some deadly course somewhere that i can do. wouldnt mind a change of scenery too though... dublin is small.

cheers

Rob :)

[Sunil]

Hi Rob,

I think some of this boils down to sacrifice, and how much time you can take out to do a sound engineering or music technology course. From people I know who have done these courses, few have ended up with permanent work if any at the end of it, however they do now have a better understanding of sound as well as more studio know how.

You seem to want to learn more so you'll pick up more tips on production, but not necessarily for a career move or your future prosepects; in this regard I still wouldn't rule out a full time Music Technology course. Ok, so you'll be zoning in on the angle of live recording and stuff, but to be honest this is great training to have, you don't have to like the style of music (many engineers dislike the music they record) as the technical know how you will pick up will be more valuable in the long run rather than an overpriced crash course in Computer music, that you'll no doubt be covering in a full time Music Technology course anyway.

Also, what's the point in limiting yourself and not taking the advantages of what these courses could offer? i.e. Sound Engineering techniques? Ok, so the job prospects are slim, but if you become good at it and eventually work in a studio who knows, maybe you could make a few quid at it if you got a break? I mean, no-one's going to pay you to make techno 9-5 Mon-Fri. are they? :)

Don't limit yourself, many great techno producers don't just make techno, and it's their knowledge or influences from outside techno that enables them to make good techno tunes ;)

Suss out some of those VEC courses, or whatever they are.. out in Ballyfermot or Kylemore. They aren't private, but they have a decent rep. plus you can still pick up an allowance similar to the dole while you do it as far as I know.

Cheers,

Sunil

howyas.
im finishin up work after four years early '06. for the first time in a while ill be free to roam where i please with no ties at all. been thinkin of doin a bit of a college thing, rather than sittin on me arse. been lookin at music technology courses, sound engineering etc but most of the courses i've checked out in dublin are either really expensive and/or have a load of stuff in em that ive no interest in at all eg, whole modules on micing up a recording studio or gettin a guitar to sound real good with this amp n effect blah blah. ive mates who've done some of em and they're reccomending that i dont due to the reasons stated above.

i basically wanna just take my knowledge of electronic music production that bit further and fill in the gaps. wanna mainly focus on producing techno tracks. there are short courses i could do here in reason/ableton/cubase but i have a general idea of how to use em all anyway. also have a good knowledge of midi, decent enough synth programming skills and experience of hardware in the studio(although i get on better with software). problem is, when im workin on tunes i keep hittin brick walls, i know where i want to take the tune but there is alot of technical knowledge that im missing out.

maybe if i stuck a usb cable up my nose and ingested the 'techno production forum' id be sorted but technology hasnt come that far yet. so im just wondering if any of you people would know of any studios/colleges in the uk that run good courses. full time/part time/crash course, its all good .there is a possibility that if i put in hours and hours workin on tunes myself ill suss out all i need to know but i wouldnt mind havin someone who is good and knows what theyre on about just to guide me along the way and speed up the process a bit.

maybe im lookin for a magic course that doesnt exist, maybe i just have to slog it out. or maybe there is some deadly course somewhere that i can do. wouldnt mind a change of scenery too though... dublin is small.

cheers

Rob :)

[AcidTrash]

Hire a producer you like for the day and watch them closely.

[RedRob]

good advice from ye there, thanks. although the money id spend getting a producer in a studio for a day would prolly get me a month or two worth of college :)

plenty to think about and a bit of sussin to do too. paid a rake load in tax the last while, wouldnt mind getting paid to go to college, get some of that money back. can get rent allowance and all that too.

plenty of food for thought there and no rush on makin any decisions.
hmmm........

suppose just get a list together and start makin phonecalls.

reckon ill pick me up a little laptop to bring to work. get a 5 hour break on the night shift for which i usually sleep but i brought my bro's one in the other night and got loads and loads learned and a few tunes started. mic and minidisc might have to be thrown in the bag too. some savage noises in a chewing gum factory.....

thanks again

Rob :)

[AcidTrash]

A day with a good producer is more use than than an entire year of music college if you ask the right questions.

[RedRob]

A day with a good producer is more use than than an entire year of music college if you ask the right questions.

i suppose i'd be able to zone in on certain areas, ask exactly what i want to know. problem is though there would be more than a days worth of questions.. hehe. i worked with a mate before for about 6 months who'd done 2 years of sound engineering and is well good at what he does. been makin tunes for 7 years, makes all kinds of music, done live, studio and film work too. i found that i'd often end up with really good tunes, but when i went off to do it for myself i would encounter problems. think that was mainly due to me wanting things to sound a cartain way and then him goin and makin the sound and me not following properly what he'd done. all part of the learning curve though.
the thing is im lacking some of the technical knowledge that i'd like to have. makin good headway at present, gettin stuck right in. every time i sit down and do a bit of work i fugure out loads. a day in a studio would be a bit further down the line. when i know my shit properly and then want to polish things up. just have to win rowland the bastards competition....

working for a day or two would probably get me the end result of some savage tunes but there is a possibility i might be left with a load of 'why's' at the end of it. dont like those 'why' bits.... :)

cheers

Rob :)

[eyes without a face]

yeah dont waste your money just hiring a day in a studio with someone to see what they do, that wont have much long term benefit at all, you'l find the day fly out the window and you'l come out with a tune probably but it wont be something you've made off your own bat and you may not, or you may depending on the person, be happy with what you end up getting for your money

if you check local studios in your area and ask nice enough you'l find some shouldnt mind you too much sitting in on smaller sessions, i was lucky i took some work experience in college at the local Parr Street studios which has various sized studios within the building, started sitting in on some sessions with smaller local artists both electronic and more acoustic based stuff, and then one day they let me sit in on a big session with a pretty big band and then i went most weeks for a while and got to see some great artists at work

you'd be better spending any money you do have on the basics for what you need and get your head around a good sequencer etc , get checking back on there for some awesome topics on everything from mastering, loop use, synths, EQ etc etc

[dirty_bass]

Sitting with a producer can be handy, but nothing beats time spent.
You can gather all the knowledge you need on here and various other production forums.
Patience and persistence will lead to perfection.
There are no shortcuts.
There are lots of good intense and quick courses in london.
Get sound on sound or future music and check the back pages for ads.

[stjohn]

Patience and persistence will lead to perfection.

tru nuff!

the Dublin sound courses aren't the may west. Trinity and Queens, Belfast have a fairly intensive Masters. They're hard to get into, but i think im going to give them a shot if i get cash together. DOnnacha Costello lectures in trinity i think, and he makes savage minimal sh*t. Maynooth also have a nice setup.

So if you get a degree behind your belt, you could then head for a masters. Theres a digital audio module in my course in DCU (multimedia), but i wouldnt bank on it to be that magic course. but at least at the same time you learn video, grafics, webdesign + coding. Once u keep you heart set on the tunes and head for that masters. By the time you get there your production should well up scratch and you will have alot to show for in your interviews.

Courses arent everything though.... ever since posting on this forum, ive been talking a step forward (i think) in each track. theres alot to learn off all the nerdy producers here

;)

[RedRob]

ye, since joining the forum ive learned a load from readin back through the production forum. spend a fair amount of time nerding in there. real good tips, pointers and ideas there from people who know thier stuff. well the way i see it in the immediate sense is get a lappy n bring it to work. bout 8/9 months left there of 10 hours per week i could get done while im being paid. block time too, did 5 hours solid the other night and that was great as opposed to the usual fragmented way i work. so by the time im outta there i should know where my music is goin and if current progression rates are anything to go by i should be doin quite well by then. :)
might have a poke about for sittin in on sesions in the mean time too. plenty of time to box off the magic course......

cheers everyone

Rob :)

[stjohn]

ahahha, i used to do that when i was workin in a security job. sittin on my hole for 12 hours in a closed bank! brought my mates laptop and my earfones. nothin better than gettin paid to make tunes! :lol:

[RedRob]

ye my job is a joke. could have done an open university degree inthe time i've been there already. so technically ill be gettin paid for makin music for the next few months. nice.. :)

[RedRob]

k, got me a laptop.... everything else should just fall into place now.

[dan the acid man]

k, got me a laptop.... everything else should just fall into place now.

expect to pull your hair out a few times (if you have any)

im at the stage of, am i taking this seriously enough to buy some monitors

[RedRob]

not much hair left..... its all good really. been dabbling in the tunes now for a few years. for the first time now gettin a bit serious about it and am starting to get on well with reason 3 and ableton. ill start pullin me hardware synths in now in a while. ive alot more patience than ive ever had these days which will be a great help to me. laptop just means ill have regular block time to work as opposed to a bit here and a bit there. ill have the freedom to spend a couple of hours getting stuck into a certain plugin or effect or whatever. can go hide in the forest and make tunes too if i like. 4 hour battery life in the badboy, only 2kg and 12 inches. give it the test in work later :)