the future of techno

**gunjack** · 01-09-2005, 02:14 AM

seriously, dirty bass, i am done fighting with you about this. your attitude speaks for itself. i may get worked up from time to time, but you are an asshole 24/7. really, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?! bassline junkie didn't take a shot at you, he just said he understood where i was coming from, are you so petty that you couldn't even bear that?

as for the TOPIC (this is your board to moderate i might add not to derail threads) - i gotta agree with adverse on this one. biggie smalls said - "i try to treat every project as if it was my first and just stay humble" i think that is a good philosophy

**dirty_bass** · 01-09-2005, 02:30 AM

Sorry dude, I wasn`t fighting with you, my comment wasn`t aimed at provoking you at all, I was just adding a little perspective to the situation.
Erm as for hijacking threads.
I think you were first to do that in this thread.
Not that it matters, the points have been made.

Getting on a serious matter.

If any cat does need any musical legal advice then please get onto me and I can put you in touch with my mate, just spoke to him again about it, and he is very willing to help out for free with any legal stuff for the independant scene.
So if you are looking at a deal and are about to sign a license or something, talk to the guy, he can give you very straight and learned advice.
Also copyright and publishing and stuff, same deal.

**tocsin** · 01-09-2005, 02:52 AM

I'm also always down with offering legal advice, at least as US shit is concerned. I'm a lawyer so I can help out in this respect here and there.

**dirty_bass** · 01-09-2005, 02:57 AM

Yeah, the US does have some rather differing laws in this matter, you do have to be careful about making legal presumptions based on US, and euro law in regards to copyright and licensing.

**tocsin** · 01-09-2005, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by MARK EG

Have you not been in the Techno Production Forums recently? Everyone helps each other out and tries to be constructive. Great. Humity? No. This is disgusting. Humiliation is wrong. Helpful feedback is right. So you really think humiliation is the way forward? Deary me, I know you better than that Mark. But I do agree with something you said there. We need some quality control on techno for sure and that CAN be achieved with humble feedback wink

I can agree with you up to a certain point here, Mark. Yes, Everyone should offer their "honest" feedback. And, when it's done in a fair manner, I do appreciate the "positive" (or, as I read it "constructive") rles that are enforced here. But, at the same time, to any aspiring producer (of which I consider myself one) just remember that opinions on this board don't amount to anything more than that. Itseems too many people get way too touchy over feedback and, after a short matter of time, people on many sides turn into raging pricks about it. "Quality" is subjective. The style of music I work on is, for the most part, not anything anyone here would consider quality. At the same time, the niche market it would sell to also wouldn't consider it "quality." So, I guess all I'm saying is, to anyone who might take criticism here to heart, also don't write off the fact that you may have written something that the people who criticize it just can't relate to. For myself, at one point in time, every "techno" track fell into this category. And, as of 1994-95, I did a complete reversal. While you may just be writing crap, there is also the very real possibility that you are either ahead of your time or just appealing to an incredibly small niche market.

**tocsin** · 01-09-2005, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Yeah, the US does have some rather differing laws in this matter, you do have to be careful about making legal presumptions based on US, and euro law in regards to copyright and licensing.

Absolutely. The stance that the US took in the WIPO treaty was kinda disappointing. When it comes down to it, artists have more protection in Europe than in the US in certain regards. Then, at the same time, corporations alkso have a different degree of protection, which supposedly are in artists' interests, but often aren't.

**The Overfiend** · 01-09-2005, 03:49 AM

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB...ic.php?t=39070

**tocsin** · 01-09-2005, 04:40 AM

^^^ No that I don't feel where you are coming from. But, really, I'd like to see "techno" go back to the era where sampling was not a taboo. Some of the best music came out then, in my opinion, largely due to the fact that nobody cared about industry related mandates. It fit in with the hacker ethic hich didn't believe that laws should prevent someone from perfecting something. That was one of the themes I found in techno that appealed to me the most. A good deal of techno tracks that illegally samlped other tracks, in my opinion, made better tracks with the samples, than the original did.

**Martin Dust** · 01-09-2005, 09:24 AM

I feel that one of the key points being made here and one that is being missed is how the or this techno community seems to always turn in on itself.

This will happens when people hold strong views but it seems to happen here a lot. I guess what people are asking for is for us all to be a bit more understanding of each others music and views. It's not that hard when you think about it. I didn't see the Gunjack thread but I know what it feels like to get a promo out and I'd guess he's be pretty darn chuffed. Now, even if I didn't like the music, I'd be pretty darn chuffed for him. I like to see people happy and it's cool as **** when people make progress.

Dirty B, right, the thing is mate you keep banging on about some next level shit and how you what to do much more but it's time to put up or shut up because if you can't see that it's winding people up then you need to take a step back and have a good look at what it looks like to others, you need to be able to see that it sounds and looks like one big diss and that nothing is good enough. I'm willing to chat about this some more if you wish but mate, give it a rest with the next level shit and just bring it.

There's some great people here and knowhere does it say we are all going to get along but it's important that you show respect to other peoples work. I like the whole spectrum of techno and people are often puzzled that I can be in both System 23 and Black Dog, but to me it makes perfect sense - I ****ing love watching people go mental and getting off on stuff and then I like to chill back and **** with your head. I've spent a lot of time in clubs and even when I haven't liked the music, I have enjoyed watching the DJ or the crowd go for it, I guess I'm not that much of a snob when it comes to having a good time.

My answer to all this would be to start posting new stuff you want to talk about or care about, the only way forward is with more hard work. Lets not get caught in the trap that often happens on forums...

Hope that makes some sense.....

**The Overfiend** · 01-09-2005, 09:55 AM

I am beyond sad.
No other words for it.
I am not going to sit here and say what is correct or what is wrong
with techno.
I am going to admit what I have done personally what I feel was wrong on my part.
I am wrong to wear my heart on my sleeve and display anger.
I was wrong to bring my anger with anyone I have had any confrontation with and make it a public issue.
I was wrong for being so passionate about something I believe in.
I do not know how to be any other way. Yes I wear my heart on my sleeve. It is my nature of conditioning. I cannot help that I can only hope
to be a better person in business and in a music sense. I first came to this forum in hopes to be able to share thoughts with like minds. While I have done so. Seems we have also had some disagreements along the way. Though I have come off as a brute in most, I am quite the opposite and have a big heart in fact. Anyone who knows me personally will know this is true. I am appaled at what is going on in the forum lately, but also cannot help but to feel responsible for some of it. I agree whole heartedly with Mark Eg's Points in the Future Thread. I also agree with most other members points here and there. I am seriously upset to be part of some recent quarrels at hand. I am also upset to see very good friends of mine fighting, really fighting. I am more than apologetic if I in anyway have brought upon any events causing any of this to happen.
I am choosing to be humble because all the war, and the bitterness and the fighting is not why I choose to be part of this place. I choose to moderate because I felt I can make a difference and really add a new attitude and input to this forum and to techno in general really. I hope I have done a good job. I am sorry if I have not. I am not a babysitter. Or a justice of the peace. I can only help the tone. I extend my deepest humilities to Mark, I've tried man, I swear it. Anyone who I have offended or turned off, please don't let my convictions or random bursts of ignorance dismay you from this place. It is the greatest forum there is, and I owe everything to it. Even my present life. I have made the best friends I have ever had from here. I love people I have met here. Whatever happens from here on in. Is in the hands of Mark. I will stay if only Eg and everyone else would have it that way. I hope this does not bring me any flak as I am only being honest and real. So hopefully this quote has a positive result. If not then like I said it is my heart in my hands.

Cheers,
Antonio

From The Heart In My Hands Post

**Sunil** · 01-09-2005, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Dust

My answer to all this would be to start posting new stuff you want to talk about or care about, the only way forward is with more hard work. Lets not get caught in the trap that often happens on forums...

.....

Been there, done that. It didn't work.

**Martin Dust** · 01-09-2005, 10:52 AM

Are you sure Sunil, it would only take 5 or 6 people to turn this thing around. Are you saying that you feel that it's not worth it?

What do you think needs to change?

If anything good is to come out of this then it's clear things need to change, so - cards on the table....

**Sunil** · 01-09-2005, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Dust

Are you sure Sunil, it would only take 5 or 6 people to turn this thing around. Are you saying that you feel that it's not worth it?

What do you think needs to change?

If anything good is to come out of this then it's clear things need to change, so - cards on the table....

Maybe for a littlw while, but in the long term I wouldn't be so sure.

I've tried talking about what I thought was good techno, or even stuff that I thought was next level. And rarely would anything get going.

Also, in the last number of months I've found myself vehemently defending producers who have really made a difference... Adam Beyer, Jeff Mills, Chris McCormack etc.

I could go on for a bit here but I may leave it for another time, and nor do I want to create a big deal. Right now I just feel a bit soured towards the place, I don't really feel like part of a community, still a bit like an outsider whose opinion or input isn't really necessary.

**Mirsha** · 01-09-2005, 11:48 AM

I get that feeling all the time, it's very easy for someones opinion to be vasty overlooked, especially on these forums where we do see a lot of posters who are people out there doing shit who's opinions will always trump the folk who aren't doing shit. At least this community doesn't scare off people form posting as I've seen on other forums.

For me BOA is deinately not the place for me to discuss the music which burns in the icy black heart of my soul, but this comes down far more about what I'm into and what the vast majority of people are into. It doesn't stop me from occasionly pokin gmy oar into various topics though. At the end of the day though I'm not really looking for terribly much from these forums apart from a bit of banter and a bit of a laugh as well as picking up production related information.

**Martin Dust** · 01-09-2005, 11:48 AM

Shame you feel that way Sunil...

**RDR** · 01-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Dust

You guys are crazy :)

99.9 of the crowd aren't on BOA, wonder what they're doing - I bet they aint moaning or looking for the "key" to techno.

Judge me by my releases and what comes out of the speakers, I'm there for myself and the crowd, simple as.

Agreed.

I Like writing techno and electro and house and ambient.. (although im not interesting in wrintg trance.. hahahah) and dowtempo and electronic dub etc...

I like talking to people on here. Its fun and informative. Im not ready to "Leave" the scene, nor do i think this board is the be all and end all.

As for the idea about a techno uber-coolische-stamp type organisation affair... Nah. There are so many things wrong ith that idea i dont know where to begin (IMO of course)

Personal attacks are wrong here - ****ing hell, if ya wanna get personal get to know the person (Then sock em in the mush if ya really dont like em..)

Learn, Evolve, Enjoy.

Dont

Fight, Destroy, Ignore.

Love ya all (Even Brian - some good points there mate, respect)

**MARKEG** · 01-09-2005, 12:05 PM

total shame. really is. something has to be done. if ppl like sunhil are saying they don't feel their input is needed (and i'm sure he's one of quite a few) then we all have to address this, especially me. the more i think about it, if we took all the ppl who jump down each other's throats out of here, actually have a really great place imho. just cause you're a big producer, or run several labels, or are good at staying up late in front of your computer, doesn't mean you're always right. and it doesn't also give you the right to be an ass.

leave this with me, i'll make some big changes today. some ppl wont like, some ppl will, but i really think that now this is out in the open, we have to address it asap.

**Jimfish** · 01-09-2005, 12:32 PM

I'm the same sunil, which is a shame because you seemed one of the most on-my-level sorta guys on here when i used to bother with it.

I must admit though i gave up trying to bring up any discussions a long time ago, partly because im a lazy c.unt but also because it all just seemed rather pointless.

Unfortunatly this place has been going around in circles for over a year now, its like a f.ucking bad trip. Even from the outside i cant see how you can slow the inertia that is driving it around let alone reverse it. And the usual 'be +VE' solution has just become a part of the loop.

For me its not about the positivity or negativity, its just about people being so anal and/or dramatic about things (things that really dont matter in the bigger picture), just chill out!. Also the strokin' (as zahn so wonderfully puts it) is a bit nausiating - unless someones strokin' me ;) hehe . But anyway, these things are just human nature, and that aint gonna change, just like outside of this board you arent going to turn a load of technoheads into businessmen.

**Jimfish** · 01-09-2005, 12:38 PM

theres a whoe world out there guys, it just seems crazy to get so up tight about such tiny insignificant things. Im sure if everyone just got on with it, chilled out, and stopped analyzing everything so damn much then things would be better for the scene.

gay analogy i know but its like if you juggle you have to just let go and trust your hands to catch each ball. If you think too much about it you drop the balls - everytime gauranteed. Im saying just go with it, and enjoy it!

**RDR** · 01-09-2005, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jimfish

just like outside of this board you arent going to turn a load of technoheads into businessmen.

Well said Jim.

Nice to hear your voice again (Stroke, Stroke.. ;) :lol: )

although to be honest i think the problem IS that a load of techno heads turned into business men.

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