EBAY: People selling DJ's mixes...Right or wrong?

[oldbugger]

anyone want to buy the ebay accounts i have for sale under the user names 'mark eg' , D.A.V.E the drummer and numerous other big names?


:lol:

[dan the acid man]

i'll have your, big wonger willy account cheers.

need to get rid of some vids quickly :lol:

[schlongfingers]

my immediate response is to say 'totally wrong'.

and i really felt what dave the d was saying.

but the real response should be HOW DO WE COMBAT THIS??

we can all moan it's the wrong thing to do but, it's happening, and it will keep happening and there's NOTHING we can do.

so rethink the goal posts. henry, if some guy is selling you mixes on ebay pirated well if you can't beat him join him. you have to set up an account, mix the mix yourself, print some nice sleeves and sell it as an original from you personally for twice the price.

we need to sort this and stop moaning (sorry to use this expression)....

you're all probably gonna have a go at me here.. but we all gotta get real ;)

The licensing would be fun....

Innit!

You can't just put a mix together put your picture on it and sell it, it's ILLEGAL, you'll end up in a shit load of bother. Can't believe you even suggested this as a sensible thing to try.

[RDR]

TBH i wasnt making as harsh a point as that, although you do have a good one...

I meant that licensing a track legally requires a lot of running about having to go to a lot of people and say

"Im using a track of ours on a mix and need your permission"

It brings up an interesting point, with the PPL attempting to change the game with licensing of digital DJ stuff, doesnt it seem to you good folks on here that the licensing structure in the UK with all that it entails needs a bloody good shake up.

They expect us to work aorund them, yet they refuse to change around us -by us i mean all modern musicians from whatever genre... why? WE are the ones paying their wages, isnt it about time we started becoming pro-active in changing the system.

MY thinking on this is that the PRs, the MCPS and the PPL were created by musicians in the beginning to help us all, yet they have not changed rapidly enough to cope with the modern impracticalities of the industry as it stands today. again WHY?

Isnt it about time we started taling matters into our own hands. I dont know if im suggesting our own organisation to force change.. or just a protest on mass.

After all, we cant let these people have their way without have OUR say.

"You all with me brothers? SAY HELL YEH!"

only buzzin' But seriously this has gone beyond a ****ing joke. its time we DID something instead of biting each other on the ass and using everyone else as an excuse.

I dont for one minute think it would be easy. And im TOTALLY open to suggestions.

[TechMouse]

I think perhaps a well written letter and collection of signatures?

Try and get as many serious producers and DJs, label owners etc., in on it.

Just an explanation of why the current system is flawed, and some ideas on how a system could be set up to benefit clubs, DJs, labels and producers alike.

Mind you - I bet nearly none of you write down all the tracks you play when you DJ and then send it off, do you? You should... as it's the only way of any performance royalties getting back to the producer.

[RDR]

I think perhaps a well written letter and collection of signatures?

Try and get as many serious producers and DJs, label owners etc., in on it.

Just an explanation of why the current system is flawed, and some ideas on how a system could be set up to benefit clubs, DJs, labels and producers alike.

Mind you - I bet nearly none of you write down all the tracks you play when you DJ and then send it off, do you? You should... as it's the only way of any performance royalties getting back to the producer.

An excellent point.

If we are going to try to change how the system works for OUR benefit we need to engage in the system, and this clearly we are not doing.

Has anyone got ANY ideas about this, im afraid im no expert on it and would really appreciate some suggestions.

and before anyone say "If you try to change the system, the system changes you" You are right. But it would be foolish to try not to.

There are some questions we all need to ask ourselves.

1. What is wrong with the current system of royalties and performance, in your opinion?

2. What is right with the system as it stands - i.e what needs to be kept

3. How do you feel you as a producer or DJ fits into this system of payments?

Thanks.

[TechMouse]

1. What is wrong with the current system of royalties and performance, in your opinion?

Briefly, it just doesn't work for underground dance music.

Fundamentally, the problem is that the vast majority of people are ignorant of the system. This is not to say that they are at fault... more that the powers that be are not doing a good job when it comes to information dissemination.

As far as I can see:

Whenever you buy a piece of music - whatever medium it comes on - you are only licensed to listen to it at home for your own pleasure. The little writing on records and CDs that you buy (normally alluding to "public perfromance of this material prohibited") means that you do not have the right to play it in public. This means anywhere from a wedding, to a school fair, to a shop, to a club, to on the radio.

Any venue (shop, pub, club, bar etc.) which wishes to play music, pays for a licence. This gives them the freedom to play whatever they want. This is why it's ok to DJ in licenced venues - as they have paid for the privilege.

The idea is that the money collected is distributed out to the people who make the music. (i.e. the producers and artists). In order for this to happen in a fair manner, radio stations are required to compile playlists of what goes out on the air. Likewise, DJs who play in clubs etc. are (supposedly) required to make a list of every track they play. If the producer and label are registered with PRS then they will get a bit of money in line with how many plays they get week in week out.

Where this breaks down, is that many producers just aren't registered with PRS. Furthermore, most DJs don't submit lists. The end result being that the money gets divided in bigger chunks throughout those who are registered, in line with the recorded plays - in the main, from mainstream radio and shitty cheese clubs.

So, bottom line - because most underground producers don't register with PRS, and most underground DJs don't submit playlists... the money paid by underground music venues for their licence largely gets distributed amonst the likes of Britney Spears, McFly, U2 etc. etc. Which, obviously, is grossly unfair.

2. What is right with the system as it stands - i.e what needs to be kept

What's right is the desire to reward producers and artists for their work. It is right that people making records that get lots of plays should be rewarded for what they do.

What's wrong is the system was put in place a long time ago, and the powers that be don't have a clue about the underground music industry - which has evolved a hell of a lot in a short space of time.

Moreover, the big record labels couldn't give a flying f*ck, because they get this royalty money anyway, because they put out the tunes getting played on TV, on the radio, and in the big shitty cheese clubs. If they weren't getting their fair share you could bet your ass they'd be kicking up a hell of a stink.

However, the real losers here are the small labels and producers who just aren't getting the piece of the pie that they so badly deserve. Unfortunetly, they are often in no position to do anything about it. They don't have the legal resources, or (even worse) are ignorant to the situation.

You get the odd exception to the rule. For example: Andy C, I believe, is very dilligent about compiling lists of what he plays every time he plays - in order to make sure that at least some of the royalty money gets into the hands of the people making the tunes.

I for one, however, wouldn't have the first clue who to go submitting playlists to. It's certainly nothing I've ever been told about by any venue I've ever played at.

On the flipside, I haven't ever felt compelled to register with PRS, despite having a couple of tunes out on vinyl. I seem to remember someone (Glenn Wilson maybe?) on here saying he was told there was no point registering with PRS unless you've had a top 40 hit.

Whether this is true or merely an example of the poor quality information that gets passed out on the subject is debateable - but the point is that no-one seems very clear on how this is all actually supposed to work.

3. How do you feel you as a producer or DJ fits into this system of payments?

I would gladly write down a list of each of the records I play at the club each month, if I knew for a fact that it meant that the producers and labels involved would get a small cut of the license fees collected by PRS, because god knows they deserve it more than Britney f*cking does.

Likewise, I'd happily join PRS if I had more records being put out.

Unfortunately, at the moment, the system just isn't transparent enough - and to be honest I think it could do with a total overhaul in the light of the way that the music industry has developed.

...

This of course, all before you start getting on to the kind of bollocks they're trying to put in place to retroactively legislate for digital DJs, as I've posted about previously. Yet another example of music and arts ignorant pen pushers trying to legislate for something they don't understand.

...

Anyway, rant over.

[RDR]

More excellent points from Techmouse, he has pretty much covered what my problems are with the system of payments.

The next logical step is for more people to add their two penneth worth to the discussion. Im talking about all those who DJ or have had releases here. PLEASE contribute - your opinion matters!

I would also like to be able to talk with someone from the PRS, the PPL or the MCPS to see what they think about the current problem.

And Mark is right - the information available to people regarding the PRS , although transparent feels and sounds for from cohesive, it just doesnt speak to me as a producer or a DJ in the underground scene.

I dont know where this will lead, possibly no-where but im willing to give it a go. I wont pretend to speak for everyone, just myself.

[TechMouse]

P.S. I may not be 100% right, but this is the information I've absorbed from various conversations, and a fairly thorough perusal of the PRS website a while back. Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

[new]

Well, I’m from Canada, so I’m not quite sure if the situation is the same for you guys but...

I do a radio show here on a FM station - 97.5 FM CKDU. The show is called Electric Atlantic. I break the one and a half hour show into three segments - first I play local unsigned electronic music of whatever genre, then my partner Greg plays an electro/electroclash/tech house set then I play a techno set. Here's the kicker - we fill out log sheets specifying exactly what song, who produced it, the label name, if it's a new release or not, etc etc. every day for the show. These log sheets are collected by our radio station, compiled, then the information is sent to the CRTC (Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission) who then pay the artists who are registered with them a specific amount per song played. I think its $0.05 or so but it's something at least. There's also a day, CRTC day, where each Canadian song counts for more.

I’m not 100% certain this is how it works, but I'm pretty sure. And if so, I then imagine that pretty much all countries would have their equivalent to the CRTC in Canada and the PRS where you are. Thus the intelligent thing would be for producers who know that their stuff is getting played out - register! I mean, the real strength of underground music is pretty spread out (I wish there was one country where everyone was into good underground music!) so there should be no reason for artists not to tap into all avenues available.

The website for the CRTC is http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/welcome.htm

[jos]

I personally wouldn't buy mix's off eBay. Surely eBay have some sort of policy against piracy...

[jos]

I personally wouldn't buy mix's off eBay. Surely eBay have some sort of policy against piracy...

[The Divide]

Could post about it on this forum too

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=107

[tocsin]

Simple solution guys. If this bothers you so much and you don't think any real action is going to be taken, set up a fake e-bay account and place a $500 bid on the thing. Get a few friends to do different bids and then just don't pay. What's he gonna do? Report you to the authorities for not buying a mix that is not authorized to be sold? If he does, explanation is simple enough. You found out that he was selling something against the artist's wishes.

[mindbender]

flat out wrong.