a hardcore skeptic

[The Teknoist.]

oh yeah i know what i forgot... i meant to say, 'i have been wrong before though' :)

[tocsin]

It comes and goes but you guys should consider the glass half full. It's very dificult nowadays to hear any "hardcore" at a party which isn't pretty much dominated by the dutch sound. Personally, I do think the genre has gotten very stale. The new dutch "industrial" sound just feels like more hype to me. It's going to be abused to death until it's just as boring as every other formula. Then, most other artists are either playing off of the frech sound or the Deathchant style stuff. I haven't found much inspiration in any of it lately. It's been practically a year since I completed a new hardcore track and, aside from that one, I've started maybe 3-4. I've recently found the politics in it now too to be just as annoying/dificult if I was playing mainstream pop. Didn't always feel this way but, given the reindeer games involved, I've been writing music that stands to have a larger audience if I have to deal with the same political BS. In hardcore, givn the small number of people into it, it's practically pointless.

[The Teknoist.]

It comes and goes but you guys should consider the glass half full. It's very dificult nowadays to hear any "hardcore" at a party which isn't pretty much dominated by the dutch sound. Personally, I do think the genre has gotten very stale. The new dutch "industrial" sound just feels like more hype to me. It's going to be abused to death until it's just as boring as every other formula. Then, most other artists are either playing off of the frech sound or the Deathchant style stuff. I haven't found much inspiration in any of it lately. It's been practically a year since I completed a new hardcore track and, aside from that one, I've started maybe 3-4. I've recently found the politics in it now too to be just as annoying/dificult if I was playing mainstream pop. Didn't always feel this way but, given the reindeer games involved, I've been writing music that stands to have a larger audience if I have to deal with the same political BS. In hardcore, givn the small number of people into it, it's practically pointless.

thats because your going to 'raves' as opposed to different nights man.. no dutch styles in sight really. Maybe the odd one decent Enzyme... You gotta dig for decent nights aswell as tunes. Which is sort of good be honest. As for the polotics, all the main nights involved with promoting hardcore techno alongside other experimental genres really do work together. Your looking in the wrong places it seems :)

[The Teknoist.]

oh and the same applies for frenchcore at these nights too.. Deathchants heard but not cained like it is by djs at normal raves.

[DJ Enigma]

@ Dave.. this is exactly why i asked you to pop over to this board mate :)

Good to have interesting debate on something i live and breathe!!

I believe that North was one of those things that couldnt be pulled off again in that size on a regular basis for a very long time, if ever. Might seem a little defeatest but i dont think it is. North managed to do what it did because it was a sibling of 'Steam', the original hardcore techno event in the North. North carried on from this and 'DRT' and for the simple reason it was THE MOST ESTABLISHED night and one EVERYONE knew. It worked in the same way as if you ask people who their favourite hardcore techno dj was the majority would/will mention Scorpio, Producer, Dolphin, Clarkee, Lofty, HMS... the last 3 havnt played hardcore for years (clarkee plays classics but hasnt bought hardcore since 2000)... Lofty and HMS havnt even poked their noses out from disappearing for years either.

These are the people that were there when it started up here and made that mark at the most crucial time as did North/DRT/Steam. You wont find half as many people giving as much dedication to an event that runs hardcore techno nights as they did North... sad but true fact. 'Ravers' as a whole (and you know this as much as me Dave) are pretty narrow minded and dont like to change much.. im not saying all but the majority.

Definitely a case of right time, right place with the whole Steam/DRT/North thing.

The thing with hardcore techno sorta merging with electronica/breakcore nights is there is quite a few things pretty much every weekend scattered around the country (some of a pretty big size).. yeah a new flagship hardcore techno night would be awesome every month but aiming at being the size of a busy North event would be a bit foolish.

I hear what your saying man, the numbers of parties are increasing but you hit the nail on the head when you said they're 'scattered'... It goes back to what I said about things being fragmented now...

As for a 'flasgship' night a la North style, i guess it's wishful thinking really..

We're slowly getting to where we want to be i believe.. musicaly and as a scene. We've just gotta have patience and all chip in (as we do really).

hmmm hope this sounds okay! haha

Yeh i reckon so, i think the main thing was for those people to make the move away from the happy scene... Although things are a way off being where we want them to be the important steps, particularly in the last 12 months have been made.. It's been a lot about changing attitudes and having the nerve to move away from something that has been so familiar for so long, even if it was detremental in the end..

As you say as long as people keep chipping in and remain motivated (which has been hard for me at times!) things will continue to get better..

[tocsin]

thats because your going to 'raves' as opposed to different nights man.. no dutch styles in sight really. Maybe the odd one decent Enzyme... You gotta dig for decent nights aswell as tunes.

Dude, around here, there are no longer any hardcore nights. The last one that existed was a night myself and a couple other friends were involved with called "Fukkital." That was practically 2 years ago now. We lost the venue after too many childish dick waving matches. So, like I said, you guys should consider the glass half full because, over here in NYC at least, there isn't shit happening. It's dead as dead can be with the exception of one small breakcore party which is thrown in a palce that is more or less a small cafe with a liquor license. And that's on a weeknight.

Which is sort of good be honest. As for the polotics, all the main nights involved with promoting hardcore techno alongside other experimental genres really do work together. Your looking in the wrong places it seems :)

Nah, man. It really just doesn't exist out here. ADAM Management has monopolized the rave circuit. For private nights/parties, you deal with squabbling from too many DJs that fight with each other over timeslots. Shit, Lowtek was just visiting out here upuntil about a week ago. On the first friday he was here, a friend of mine, the people he was staying with, etc. knew a kid throwing a party at a spot that was hooked up by Satronica, one of the guys Garvin was staying with. The party included locals only. The kid wouldn't let Garvin play. Even when Tense offered up his timeslot, the kid said he would give it to a different local. Mind you, these were pretty much all locals with no records out, no exposure outside of our immediate friends and they had an option for international talent to play for free. It ended up in a bunch of us just hitting a bar instead of going to the party. Nobody is working together. Nobody is sharing. Everyone wants to take without giving. It really sucks the life out of things.

[Louk]

check out these 2 Artist's -

Lasse Steen aka - Skullblower
- Earl Of Reformation
- Goatblower
- Rules Of Anger
- Senical


and also a french guy by the name of PSYKOTROPP

heaps more im sure...like ANY genre you really have to do the diggin to find the good stuff.

get educated. it's not all about silly samples and hoovers.

ha mate Lasse Steen is making trance now as DJ Choose, he's a really cool guy - I recently interviewed him for upfront and did a mix for his radio show in Denmark (techno)

He mentioned he is doing a live PA of his older stuff one soon :)

Louk

[Louk]

log check out the social parasite stuff

also catscan and third movement (label)

always keeps me on my toes

Louk

[The Teknoist.]

thats because your going to 'raves' as opposed to different nights man.. no dutch styles in sight really. Maybe the odd one decent Enzyme... You gotta dig for decent nights aswell as tunes.

Dude, around here, there are no longer any hardcore nights. The last one that existed was a night myself and a couple other friends were involved with called "Fukkital." That was practically 2 years ago now. We lost the venue after too many childish dick waving matches. So, like I said, you guys should consider the glass half full because, over here in NYC at least, there isn't shit happening. It's dead as dead can be with the exception of one small breakcore party which is thrown in a palce that is more or less a small cafe with a liquor license. And that's on a weeknight.

Which is sort of good be honest. As for the polotics, all the main nights involved with promoting hardcore techno alongside other experimental genres really do work together. Your looking in the wrong places it seems :)

Nah, man. It really just doesn't exist out here. ADAM Management has monopolized the rave circuit. For private nights/parties, you deal with squabbling from too many DJs that fight with each other over timeslots. Shit, Lowtek was just visiting out here upuntil about a week ago. On the first friday he was here, a friend of mine, the people he was staying with, etc. knew a kid throwing a party at a spot that was hooked up by Satronica, one of the guys Garvin was staying with. The party included locals only. The kid wouldn't let Garvin play. Even when Tense offered up his timeslot, the kid said he would give it to a different local. Mind you, these were pretty much all locals with no records out, no exposure outside of our immediate friends and they had an option for international talent to play for free. It ended up in a bunch of us just hitting a bar instead of going to the party. Nobody is working together. Nobody is sharing. Everyone wants to take without giving. It really sucks the life out of things.

ah bugger! i keep forgetting your from the US.. im sorry man, total different kettle of fish but your filling us in with this information. A good read, even though its all negative really. :(

[DJ Enigma]

It comes and goes but you guys should consider the glass half full. It's very dificult nowadays to hear any "hardcore" at a party which isn't pretty much dominated by the dutch sound. Personally, I do think the genre has gotten very stale. The new dutch "industrial" sound just feels like more hype to me. It's going to be abused to death until it's just as boring as every other formula. Then, most other artists are either playing off of the frech sound or the Deathchant style stuff. I haven't found much inspiration in any of it lately. It's been practically a year since I completed a new hardcore track and, aside from that one, I've started maybe 3-4. I've recently found the politics in it now too to be just as annoying/dificult if I was playing mainstream pop. Didn't always feel this way but, given the reindeer games involved, I've been writing music that stands to have a larger audience if I have to deal with the same political BS. In hardcore, givn the small number of people into it, it's practically pointless.

The glass is most definitely half full. More so since I stopped supporting/attending events that purveyed "pizzacore" and abuse the dutch/deathchant/frenchcore sound.

All politics and bullshit aside i think there is a small likeminded group of people amongst the hardcore techno fraternity which are switched off from the politics and are concentrating more than ever on doing their own thing. Much of this has come about from disassociating themselves with the happy scene.

You just have to find your niche, somewhere you can express yourself without freely without being slated for doing so.

[tocsin]

Yeah man. Not to be a big downer here, but I really can't honestly describe it more than saying things are pretty much dead due to selfish attitudes. It's always been dificult for hardcore around NYC pretty much since around the time Nicky Finger dies. But, that never really affected me so much since, for a time, there was a healthy outlaw scene and one-offs happening where, while what I mentioned was still present to a certain extent, there were a lot more people with healthy attitudes. That provided some musical inspiration for me at least. But, recently, shit, if I try and crank out a hardcore track, it just ends up feeling forced at some point because I'm not feeling any energy. I'd love to think I'd be able to ignore that and rise above it but, it really affects me. I haven't been wiritng mutliple hardcore tracks that I've been happy with since 2002 and what I described is pretty much the reason why. There's just no inspiration to draw from. Take a look at most of the people in NYC that are putting out music now too. They are pretty much catering to the dutch sound. Not the "rave" dutch sound, but most of them are catering to and releasing on Industrial Movement. There simply isn't any NYC scene to inspire any true NY/US sound or labels anymore. Aside from Apocalypse which hasn't released anything in ages, the only other hardcore label I can think of from NYC is Industrial Strength and all of those pressings are being done in Europe and largely sold there. Shit, I'd rather be in Los Angeles at this point.

[DJ Enigma]

Shit, I'd rather be in Los Angeles at this point.

I've played a couple of gigs in LA with the Mash Up Soundsystem and Delete Data folks.. They're scene seemed to mirror whats going on in the UK in some ways with nights mixing up hardcore techno with mashed up broken beats, basically anything extreme sounding... You got an interesting mix of goths, ravers and general society outcasts which to me is great type of audience......

[Ben Kidney]

this post was inspired by reading the post about snobbery against hardcore/gabber/whatever the **** its called...

personally i've never heard any hardcore that i didnt think was boring and too simple.

i would dearly love to be proved wrong, so i'm asking for anyone that has a link to something that they believe is truly great, interesting and will change my mind about this area of music (ie, the really fast stuff) to post it up here and show me the way!!

Dude, seriously, here's a few essential artists for you:

La Peste
The Enticer
Sunjammer
DJ Freak
I:Gor

[Barely Human]

On a side note, has anyone heard Andreas's,(sunjammer), latest stuff? **** me :clap:

[Ben Kidney]

I also feel that the hardcore side of things is pretty much dead nowadays...Due to too many lacklustre artists, too many shoddy events and promoters/followers that aren't really interested in the music they just want that 'hardcore' tag...Like Dave said there are still a few individuals around who want to start breaking boundaries again, who would like to see the music progress...It is a small minority though, the days of North etc...are long gone, so are the people who cross over all sides of the 'Hardcore' umbrella...Todays Hardcore is significantly different to what it used to be, the events, like you said they're few and far between and the music styles are pretty varied and some of the are so far removed it's untrue...I'd like to think that Hardcore isn't dead but my defeatist attitude these days seems to believe that the scene as it used to be is all over (for now anyways)...To me it can only be for the good, now the people who were detrimental to the scene are gone, maybe we can progress finally...

[DJ Enigma]

Out of the ashes the phoenix shall rise again sid lad

[anode]

check out these 2 Artist's -

Lasse Steen aka - Skullblower
- Earl Of Reformation
- Goatblower
- Rules Of Anger
- Senical


and also a french guy by the name of PSYKOTROPP

heaps more im sure...like ANY genre you really have to do the diggin to find the good stuff.

get educated. it's not all about silly samples and hoovers.

ha mate Lasse Steen is making trance now as DJ Choose, he's a really cool guy - I recently interviewed him for upfront and did a mix for his radio show in Denmark (techno)

He mentioned he is doing a live PA of his older stuff one soon :)

Louk

hey Louk :)

yer he's been on the trance tip for some time....

i would love to hear a live pa of his old choonz! will it be recorded?

when he was makin hardcore and hard acid it was some of the best stuff out, still is.

[Ben Kidney]

Out of the ashes the phoenix shall rise again sid lad

Could well do man...We shall see...

[massplanck]

The party included locals only. The kid wouldn't let Garvin play.

:lol: Poor Garvin. I'll be sure to pass on my condolences to him when i see him.

Thats a big harsh all the same.

[audioinjection]

Shit, I'd rather be in Los Angeles at this point.

I've played a couple of gigs in LA with the Mash Up Soundsystem and Delete Data folks.. They're scene seemed to mirror whats going on in the UK in some ways with nights mixing up hardcore techno with mashed up broken beats, basically anything extreme sounding... You got an interesting mix of goths, ravers and general society outcasts which to me is great type of audience......

eh, the LA scene isnt all the great, not many parties happen and if they do its all speedcore/breakcore stuff, i mean that stuff is cool but not to listen to all night