What makes those old classics tick?

[SlavikSvensk]

is it just nostalgia, or do they have something missing from today's crop? i reckon it's a certain naive exhuberance...a sense of freedom and exploration missing now that techno has become so fragmented and compartmentalized...

...any thoughts?

[Analog.1]

In those days all the different styles were closer together and people used to bounce production ideas off each other, I remember when somone discovered a new sound then everyone else would use that same sound until it died out, then somone else would discover another new fresh idea then everyone would copy it. The music was very new, there was a closer sense of unity and everyones minds were fresh resulting in excellent production.

[massplanck]

HARDWARE.

[massplanck]

TACTILE CONTROL. HANDS ON. NO CLICKING WITH A SHAGGING MOUSE.

[SlavikSvensk]

HARDWARE.

why do you think computers are limiting? i know we've discussed this before, and i'm still not entirely convinced...but also not sure you are wrong either.

[baconstyle]

HARDWARE.

I disagree. While the movement away from hardware is changing the way that music is produced, it is making music production accessible to all those who are interested. No longer do people need to buy thousands of dollars worth of clunky equipment to make interesting music. No longer do people need to have a studio to work in. The computer has become the modern day studio--with programs like Reason and Ableton live allowing for a great deal of creativity. Perhaps the move to computers is a mixed bag--but, as software emulators become better and better, perhaps hardware will not even be missed...

I would like to hear others' thoughts on this...

[massplanck]

Computers are NOT limiting. thats the problem. Some people get too caught up with settings & assigning knobs & bollocks these days i think. Ok hardware is expensive & it takes a while to afford/get a decent setup but from my experience its 10 times more exciting & musical to NOT stare at a screen or spend ages assigning knobs to a generic midi controller to make music. Answer me this... has is ever crossed your mind that software might be to blame for the downward spiral in the quality of 'techno' & hardware might be the answer to why you think techno sounded better 'back in the day'? . I'm not saying this is the case but it just might be an answer to your question..Of course you can make excellent music with just a computer but its NOT for me.. yeah i'll sequence the midi in cubase & cuttup my sample in wavelab I've never gotten a shit kick from a drum machine. But my computer is very good at spewing them out...

I just love having instant & PERMANENT tactile control.

[massplanck]

HARDWARE.

I disagree. While the movement away from hardware is changing the way that music is produced, it is making music production accessible to all those who are interested. No longer do people need to buy thousands of dollars worth of clunky equipment to make interesting music. No longer do people need to have a studio to work in. The computer has become the modern day studio--with programs like Reason and Ableton live allowing for a great deal of creativity. Perhaps the move to computers is a mixed bag--but, as software emulators become better and better, perhaps hardware will not even be missed...

I would like to hear others' thoughts on this...

The day someone invents a virtual guitar for the pc which is better than the one you are holding in your hands i'll believe you.

I do love my software - Reaktor/Bidule & modular stuff.. but its funny I find that these apps appeal to me the same way a lump of hardware does.

Half your creativity is lost assiging knobs & shit i find & forgetting what goes where. If i have a supernova the knobs & buttons are there in front of me forever more and i can just dive in & be creative.

[SlavikSvensk]

my problem with my old hardware studio was that i kept making the same kind of track. and i always found it hard to go back and arrange. but maybe that was the particular setup...also, on the other hand, i would arrange on the fly, which, when it worked, gave tracks an excitement i feel i have trouble getting on my computer tracks.

also, one reason i like reason is because it emulates hardware i am familiar with and love. so it's more the fact that it's cheap and small that attracts me to it.

final thought...maybe both viewpoints are right. maybe hardware and software are BOTH limiting in their own way, and it's just a question of how you want to be limited. music can be more easily complex now, but maybe what it loses is that exuberance, that energy, that the old tracks had.

[massplanck]

No longer do people need to buy thousands of dollars worth of clunky equipment to make interesting music. No longer do people need to have a studio to work in.

Give me convienice or give me death.

[massplanck]

music can be more easily complex now, but maybe what it loses is that exuberance, that energy, that the old tracks had.

BLAM!

[TechMouse]

why do you think computers are limiting? i know we've discussed this before, and i'm still not entirely convinced...but also not sure you are wrong either.

I think that Hardware automatically gives anything you make with it a certain "feel".

It's possible to emulate this "feel" with a PC, but it's also possible to not.

PC sequencing is so open ended that you have a lot more freedom. You can emulate that hardware sequencing vibe if you so wish, with a bit of effort, but you can also go in other directions too.

Hardware sequencing gives you that "hardware feel" straight away - which is why I think some people are so in love with it. You plug in, smack in some notes, and wahey! Instant Techno. But this all comes at the price of not having quite so much flexibility.

So, whilst Hardware yields more immediately "cool" results, you can do the same (and more) on a PC - but it will take you some time.

[SlavikSvensk]

PC sequencing is so open ended that you have a lot more freedom. You can emulate that hardware sequencing vibe if you so wish, with a bit of effort, but you can also go in other directions too.

the open-endedness also leads people to cut corners with loops they might not have before.

on the other hand, i am much happier arranging tracks on a computer than hardware...

[massplanck]

i agree. i couldnt sequence my midi on anything else but a pc... but when i mean 'sequence' i mean just tidy up the arrangement that i have played out with my machines. Anyway this question was.. what makes the old classics tick.. machines did & **** all fiddling with software (for me anyway)

[massplanck]

So, whilst Hardware yields more immediately "cool" results, you can do the same (and more) on a PC - but it will take you some time.

Thats a good observation Mousey.

[oldbugger]

is it just nostalgia, or do they have something missing from today's crop? i reckon it's a certain naive exhuberance...a sense of freedom and exploration missing now that techno has become so fragmented and compartmentalized...

...any thoughts?

i think it is mostly nostalgia. back in the day it was all so new, exciting and fresh. it was a completely new experience going out and hearing house/techno/rave back then.

when i hear the old stuff it brings back so many happy memories and that excitment of the new scence comes floding back.

the music wasnt amazing back that then,far from it, some was pretty poor musicly but we will all still love it for what it gave us..

new. fresh energy. like no other scene before.

[TechMouse]

So, whilst Hardware yields more immediately "cool" results, you can do the same (and more) on a PC - but it will take you some time.

Thats a good observation Mousey.

Don't get me wrong - I think hardware is very, very cool.

I think your ideal setup for making tunes / playing live, would be a few machines... (synth, sampler, drum machine - sampler and drum machine being kind of interchangeable)... and then a laptop running some sort of software. I'd go for Reaktor or Max / MSP, but Ableton Live would also be in the running.

You'd get the "feel" of the hardware, with the flexibility of a PC.

Then you get the best of all worlds.

[SlavikSvensk]

is it just nostalgia, or do they have something missing from today's crop? i reckon it's a certain naive exhuberance...a sense of freedom and exploration missing now that techno has become so fragmented and compartmentalized...

...any thoughts?

i think it is mostly nostalgia. back in the day it was all so new, exciting and fresh. it was a completely new experience going out and hearing house/techno/rave back then.

when i hear the old stuff it brings back so many happy memories and that excitment of the new scence comes floding back.

the music wasnt amazing back that then,far from it, some was pretty poor musicly but we will all still love it for what it gave us..

new. fresh energy. like no other scene before.

i think you are right, but i also think today's tracks lack that freshness. probably some of it is nostalgia, but there sometimes seems to be very little excitement in techno now. i saw derrick may a few months ago and he just seemed bored sh*tless.

in some ways i think that because a lot of newcomers to techno only listen to the new stuff, and not the old records, they don't have that freshness as a point of reference...

[oldbugger]

is it just nostalgia, or do they have something missing from today's crop? i reckon it's a certain naive exhuberance...a sense of freedom and exploration missing now that techno has become so fragmented and compartmentalized...

...any thoughts?

i think it is mostly nostalgia. back in the day it was all so new, exciting and fresh. it was a completely new experience going out and hearing house/techno/rave back then.

when i hear the old stuff it brings back so many happy memories and that excitment of the new scence comes floding back.

the music wasnt amazing back that then,far from it, some was pretty poor musicly but we will all still love it for what it gave us..

new. fresh energy. like no other scene before.

i think you are right, but i also think today's tracks lack that freshness. probably some of it is nostalgia, but there sometimes seems to be very little excitement in techno now. i saw derrick may a few months ago and he just seemed bored sh*tless.

in some ways i think that because a lot of newcomers to techno only listen to the new stuff, and not the old records, they don't have that freshness as a point of reference...

absolutely. the whole techno scene is boring me shitless if i'm totally honest with myself for the reasons you state. it is dull as **** at the moment (although it seems nobody wants to admit it) its what i love though, even if it is boring hahaha.

the whole club scene needs a serious kick up the arse somehow. a new fresh genre maybe, a seriously good batch of pills maybe (its revived a dead once before so dont knock the idea) maybe new drugs, be better if it was actually music related though or maybe just some form of techno that isnt quite so boring. (and thats coming from someone who loves the most monotenous loops imaginable)

i dont believe for one minute its just a few if us old moaners who think like this either.