a walking contradiction

[SlavikSvensk]

shouldn't minimal techno, by definition, be stripped down techno...say, MINIMALIST techno? ;) that's a pretty easy litmus test...

[The Divide]

Sounds kinda tech house to me, I like it tho

[holotropik]

ewww :( yuck.
boring dribble to me. sounds like the thousand other "minimal" tracks out there at the moment that are no where near minimal...just basic.

[Agent Orange NYC]

I def like Mad Eye 3 alot, and more than this. This is very well produced but, not very exciting though. I glad alot of the "big" guys got disolussioned with the drummy stuff and finally moved on. It's made some room for some new talent and fresh sounds.

[Dustin Zahn]

Allow to me explain why I think some of you nay-sayers are wrong or missing certain points.

First off, the thing you have to realize is this release is on Plus 8. Immediately I didn't expect the release to be another "Lost & Found" or some trancey truesoul project. So if you were expecting something different than Beyer's "Mad eye" production style you should look in a different place. Second, while the release does contain elements of "minimal" or "microhouse" or whatever you want to call this trendy new sound (I'll simply use "minimal" for this post), I think its loads better than the rest of minimalish shit coming out at the moment.

Now for the production standpoint: The production is top notch compared to most minimal tracks and much more complex. The sound quality is far thicker and more professional than your typical run of the mill minimal record. It's far less loopy than typical minimal tracks, as well as usual Beyer music for that matter too. There is plenty of content to this record, more so than half the crap made by the slaggers on this and other forums. Let's be honest, techno needs another italian/D.C.-red-series styled synth stab track like all need another hole in our head. Just listen closer, or maybe it's not your style. Regardless there is more content in the new Beyer stuff than ever before.

From a listener standpoint: A lot of you are quick to slag the record when I'm willing to bet half of you haven't even heard it on a proper system at a proper volume. Two weeks ago I had the pleasure of hearing Hawtin on 16+ bassbins in a space that probably only needed half that. He played AWC part 2 and it reaffirmed my opinion that the track sounds massive on a huge system. The shuffley key-changing congas cut through the air like the butter, creating a very psychadelic and trippy atmosphere that made all the fans go nuts. There was no bullshit filtering, synth stab breakdown, or massive white noise rubbish needed for the breakdown like typical techno tracks. On top of that, I swore I heard Hawtin play harder than he has since '99/'00. When we checked out the recording afterwards (NO, It's not going on the net, please don't ask), I couldn't believe that most of the tracks were basic minimal tracks. You'd be surprised how hard some of the minimal tracks hit on a proper system. I knew this before, but sometimes it takes a reminder like this for me to fully appreciate it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most people who bash this record or other minimal stuff are too set on their ways. They're too busy proclaiming how techno should be instead of how it COULD be. In my eyes, techno isn't some bullshit congobongo track. It's also not a minimal track. It's not some wonky track either. It could be a mixture of everything. Instead of complaining about the current minimal trend, why not take the elements you like and combine it with the elements of other music you like? I think Beyer gets this point and is running with it. He really likes some of the aspects of minimal techno but he also has a passion for harder techno and experimental music, the result is his Mad Eye sound.

It's okay, the minimal fans on minimal forums are just as, if not more stubborn. If you bring up the idea of mixing house, minimal, hard techno, and more into one set they'll usually laugh or offer a lame excuse too. I've never pledged allegiance to any one genre, I can usually find a few good tracks in every subgenre of techno. Where are the other people like that? It seems like this forum leans more towards the hard techno end of the spectrum, and places like mnml.nl lean too much towards the minimal end of the spectrum. Where is the medium? I think that's where I belong.

BTW, a lot of the minimal kids won't have anything to do with the new Beyer record or Mad Eye stuff because they feel it's too hard or aggressive.

I'll agree with Dirtybass on one thing. It's true that the minimal fad is quickly coming to suffer the same fate that hard techno did (saturation). Most people forget too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Right now I am relaunching an old label of mine to use as a basis for my friends tracks. They fall in a similar vein to the trendier techno right now and its ridiculous how quick distributors are to hand out deals. Distributors are in such a rush right now to buy up minimal/microhouse labels right now and eventually it will bring more collapses of companies just like in the past with Prime, Integrale, and a million other distros.

[Dustin Zahn]

I also forgot to add that this record is more for the crowd that is into the "mental" or "head ****" kind of techno. These days, I think the crazy mentalness of techno has been lost in a mountain of shitty clicks, pops, compressed drum loops, piano stabs, and shitty chopped-up spanish acapellas.

[holotropik]

Good words Dustin. Interesting.

I tends to think after its all said and done that the "saturation" thing is what stirs most negative responses these days. For example, if you're and artist that doesnt happen to be making the current narrow trend then you simpply get left out in the cold which generates a frustration that becomes genre bashing....simple action reaction stuff.

thats why I like how you said that there should be some "middle ground" somehow that allows the use of a variety of styles and influences depending on set/setting.....

The current narrowness of the trends as they happen now simply generates too many band-wagon'ers who churn out anything remotely like the trend sound and isolates peeps, as I said. That generates the negative reaction to an otherwise good piece of work.

[g]

...hearing Hawtin on 16+ bassbins ... I swore I heard Hawtin play harder than he has since '99/'00 ... [later] I couldn't believe that most of the tracks were basic minimal tracks...

You'd be surprised how hard some of the minimal tracks hit on a proper system.

precisely.

and like djing all other forms of music, it all comes down to how you play it. bad minimal dj, rubbish night. good dj, doesn't matter what he plays -- great night.

[dan the acid man]

i dont agree, i prefer to hear good tracks, even if the dj isnt upto much, i've heard alot of techincally great dj's, but because i've not been into the music, i've not enjoyed myself

[g]

sure... you can go see, say, carl craig and have a great time because he plays good records, despite the fact that all he does is play them.

my point was the other side of the coin: in the right hands, music you aren't normally into can become fantastic.

[SlavikSvensk]

sure... you can go see, say, carl craig and have a great time because he plays good records, despite the fact that all he does is play them.

my point was the other side of the coin: in the right hands, music you aren't normally into can become fantastic.

that is definately true...but it's also to a degree a moot point. techno needs fewer tracks, fewer dj tools, and more SONGS. i see "the wipe" on dustin's signature...man, that is a real SONG. it's emotional, it progresses, powerfully evocative...and it's still a great, easy track to mix in and out of. all those classic basic channel records, rob hood...man some of those were stripped down like hell, but they packed a serious punch (and i'm not talking about hardness or loudness).

please no one take this as an attack on the adam beyer record (i think it's ok and prob not deserving of a lot of the scorn i've read on here), or as yet another grumpy "it was better in the old days" diatribe from me...this is all about the future. whether sh*t is minimalist or maximalist, melodic or straight up drums, i think more artists should ask themselves:

"what did i try to communicate here? does the track succeed? should people care?"

[react]

i went record shopping last weekend and bought beyer's 'a walking contradiction' along with a paul mac on immigrant. i passed on several other hard techno records by producers who usually put out releases i like. i guess i'm getting sick of all the same shit. and lately, i rarely buy more than one or two records when i shop, because most of the music coming out is not very good.

i agree 100% with dustin's insight on this one. i think beyer is at the top of his game. and this record is a solid representation of that. i love hard techno, mulero, wunsch, regis, whatever. and i don't really agree with the current minimal trend (most of the music is weirdo house to me, not techno), but i don't think those producers are even in the same league as beyer. and when richie hawtin played in chicago two weekends ago, he totally destroyed it and much of his set was 'minimal' but it hit really, really hard. so you have to give minimal some credit. when it's done right, it sounds amazing, and it will make people go nuts.

anyways, i think AWC is an excellent record and i can't wait to hear it on a system again.

[eyeswithoutaface]

some of you guys are getting worse than me on here. Dustin's 100% right here.

People moan about there being way too much loopy stuff, then when when undoubtedly one of the biggest loop mongers in town tries someting else, people still moan

[Adey]

anyone else really into this?

nope, not one bit and if i hear the word minimal to describe this type of dull
as **** plod one more time i'm gonna slot someone.

where's the beef gone and the attitude?

hood, mills, tanaka, dbx, rachmad, female & regis... that's minimal.
not this watered down house friendly dogshit that's suddenly become the new
big thing and labelled pioneering by former progressive and tech-house trendies.

roll on frank de wulf next month for some proper **** party tunes.


no offence meant oldbugger :lol:

I disagree with every single word you just said. I prefer glitchy techno like this. music you don't have to be completely E'd or K'd off your head to enjoy. I really enjoyed these tunes and would go very well with some of the stuff I've got on Palette. mills, female, regis... yawn.

[Fordy]

This track rocks, minimal/tech-house/glitch whatever the hell you wanna call it, is the most exciting music for me right now. But im still loving harder stuff from the likes of The Divide, Dustin Zahn, I Villasante, Female, Ian Lehman, Paul Bailey, Patrick Skoog etc, same as I love everything from hip hop, electro, house, indie, punk etc etc. Love what you enjoy, let others love what you dont. Its stupidly ignorant to disregard a whole genre, or single tracks simply because they are not to your tastes, because end of the day thats all it is, personal taste. The amount of slating in this scene is ridiculous, one minute everyone is crying out for change, the minute something comes along thats fresh, 'its not like it used to be', ill never understand this.

And 100% agree with what Dustin Zahn said about this, and keep up the good work, same goes to The Divide and anyone else on here I mentioned, loving your material right now.

[Technojunkie]

anyone else really into this? i'm loving beyers new style. hopefully more of this to come

part 1 http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF196466-01-01-01.mp3

part 2 http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF196466-01-02-01.mp3

loving it. probarbly been talked about already i guess. if it has i missed it :lol:

to bad it got played out so fast...

[teknorich]

I´m liking this quite a lot, but to be honest it´s not really a record to be playd straight. I´ve heard it in a couple of mixes, and it´s best used more as a dj tool, layered over other tracks or cut up and looped digitally. The a-side isn´t particularly inspiring as it stands, though I do like the flipside, but like I say this kind of tack gives the dj opportunity to show other skills by f-cking around with it and making use of it rather than just playing it.

[react]

anyone else really into this?

nope, not one bit and if i hear the word minimal to describe this type of dull
as **** plod one more time i'm gonna slot someone.

where's the beef gone and the attitude?

hood, mills, tanaka, dbx, rachmad, female & regis... that's minimal.
not this watered down house friendly dogshit that's suddenly become the new
big thing and labelled pioneering by former progressive and tech-house trendies.

roll on frank de wulf next month for some proper **** party tunes.


no offence meant oldbugger :lol:

I disagree with every single word you just said. I prefer glitchy techno like this. music you don't have to be completely E'd or K'd off your head to enjoy. I really enjoyed these tunes and would go very well with some of the stuff I've got on Palette. mills, female, regis... yawn.

female's banging minimal track on sandwell district 4 owns. i've played it out and heard it played on proper sound and it will melt dancefloors. and regis is very gifted producer. . karl o'connor & peter sutton's (regis & female) 'againstnature' is arugably one of the most textually brilliant minimal techno albums ever released.

i don't have to be 'E'd pr K'd off my head' to know brilliant music when i hear it.

[Jay Pace]

I really like this. I also love the fact that techno is getting a bit funkier, a bit less druggy and bit more musical. Not getting any younger - and tracks like this do as much for me now as "balls the the walls" tracks did 5 years back.

Nice shuffly number with beautiful production that sounds exceptional across a proper PA.

Good fun. Haters - stop taking yourselves so bloody seriously all the time. And for god's sake don't presume everything to be worthless just because you personally don't value it. Nothing is more boring than hearing everyone preach their own personal gospel of techno from the rooftops.

Dustin - Absolutely spot on mate. Round of applause.

[SlavikSvensk]

i'd understand the hating to a degree if this was some, i don't know, rick-astley-sampling-schranz-bootleg...but i honestly fail to see what people are getting so worked up and seemingly offended about with this track. either you like it or think it's boring...