Hardcore Ideology?

[Ben Kidney]

Good point..I mean, there's definitely genuine artists out ther who are meticulous and take pride in what they're putting out and that's a good thing in some respects...But like you say, when other aspects are left by the wayside and more emphasis is put only into that, it does detract from the quality and feel of it...

[The Teknoist]

i think wanting to learn and get as much as possible and use as much as possible while producing is a natural thing tbh. I dont think that just because some people spend alot of time on production that it always takes the feel away from a track and i dont think that its being anal alot of the time.. its just the feeling the want to be the best you can and produce the best you can.

I do know what you mean when saying some dutch producers take themselves and hardcore far too seriously, i just think its funny as hell.

The thing is though, the world started not to like the NYC and older hardcore shit after a while which is why things had to progress and how would that be done? Learning new things, making production tighter (or tbh just different i guess).

Yeah alot of stuff sounds overproduced and feels like it has no soul (every audiogenic release in the last 2 years) but theres more stuff that lacks production skills and soul and just sounds like thrown down amens in sf acid or a 909 with offbeat open hats. Just because it sounds raw doesnt mean it has soul. :) once again, i hope i got my point over okay haha

[DJ Enigma]

Come on Dave, im intrigued to hear your reply

Yeh it's took me a while to consider my response lol...

I guess really for me, when i started listening to it many moons ago.. I just loved the agression and the release in a passive and non destructive way.... Soul and emotion never came into it because it was all 'techno' back then and i've never seen techno as a soulfull sound anyway... Besides which my lifestyle was so drug fuelled anyway, emotions became clouded...

For me it was a rebellious sound, unacceptable and unlistenable by 'normal' society.. We were different, shunned and sometimes ridiculed, but that's what made it all the more appealing..

Over the years so many influences have come and gone and i guess that everything runs it's course in the end... So in that respect, there cannot be an 'ideology' in my opinion as the sounds have constantly mutated and progressed..

Not being a producer i can't really give a rounded perspective but what i've learned from the people i know is that they are all driven and inspired in different ways. Which is the beauty behind this music because in essence, anything goes.... Good Hardcore should not be bound by rules or restrictions and a producer should express themselves in whatever way they feel, whether they apply emotional content, satirical humour or a political message or even if they just want to show off their production techniques it all makes for an interesting melting pot of ideas....

From the perspective of being a dj, i like the variety of influences i can draw from to construct a set, i can take a mix through a variety of levels and styles with the beginning and the end being so far removed from eachother, yet allowing it to flow through peaks and troughs to it's conclusion. I get my buzz from working a crowd and watching a dancefloor fill.. I've turned empty rooms into full ones and vice versa but what's been most important is self gratification. Pure selfishness at times as i've played what I want to hear whether it's been appropiate to the theme of the night or not. There's nothing better though than seeing a room packed with people dripping with sweat, banging their heads and jumping about insanely with every record i spin...

For me, there isn't an idealogy only a whole heap of influences people can draw from that, at a base level basically send out a message of "if you don't like, **** you i don't give a shit".... If you can't appreciate the gratification a 200bpm kick can deliver, then you'll never understand........

[tocsin]

an when saying some dutch producers take themselves and hardcore far too seriously, i just think its funny as hell.

The thing is though, the world started not to like the NYC and older hardcore shit after a while which is why things had to progress and how would that be done? Learning new things, making production tighter (or tbh just different i guess).

Funny. And here I was thinking that a number of people just took the NYC sound, gave it a new genre name, and then pretended it was their own. :p But, seriously, I really dunno how any scene got tired of the NYC sound. The NYC sound basically died before people got sick of it. Most of the NYC hardcore producers for the "NYC Hardcore" era just stopped producing. Lenny Dee will still do stuff. I'm wishing Carl Carinci and Sal Mineo were still doing stuff. I never got sick of their sound.

yeah, i loved sal mineo.. i guess most did stop producing before it got too tired but im sure you got my point.

[The Teknoist]

an when saying some dutch producers take themselves and hardcore far too seriously, i just think its funny as hell.

The thing is though, the world started not to like the NYC and older hardcore shit after a while which is why things had to progress and how would that be done? Learning new things, making production tighter (or tbh just different i guess).

Funny. And here I was thinking that a number of people just took the NYC sound, gave it a new genre name, and then pretended it was their own. :p But, seriously, I really dunno how any scene got tired of the NYC sound. The NYC sound basically died before people got sick of it. Most of the NYC hardcore producers for the "NYC Hardcore" era just stopped producing. Lenny Dee will still do stuff. I'm wishing Carl Carinci and Sal Mineo were still doing stuff. I never got sick of their sound.

yeah, i loved sal mineo.. i guess most did stop producing before it got too tired but im sure you got my point.

yeah, i guess most of it stopped before it was too late but im sure you realise the point i was initialy trying to make.

Sal Mineo used to be one of my favs also :)

[tocsin]

I get what you're saying. I guess just the whole "the world got sick of the NY sound" line always rubs me the wrong way. I remember it being chic to make that claim when "newstyle" became the big craze from a lot of the dutch. Meanwhile, the world hadn't gotten sick of the NYC sound. Rather, one of the people who was a central figure in it died and the rest of the people involved either almost stopped producing entirely or went on to new things. For all the dutch producers that take themselves so seriously and pretend whatever "new" sound is so cutting edge in Holland, I've heard nothing but subtale variation come out of Holland for the past decade. The NYC sound was not a subtle variation. The French sound was not a subtle variation. The stuff coming out of the UK for a bit with Deathchant was not a subtle variation. The sound of Bloody Fist and crew was not a subtle variation. They were all new takes on techno/hardcore. Yet, the Dutch producers with the egos have done what? Oh, yeah, they slowed
down, or sped up slightly, the same shit that DJ Paul started with virtually no straying from that formula. Throw some reverb on it and hit some black keys, and all of a sudden it's a new ****ing genre that revolutionary? Please. :p

So, yeah, just me ranting. That line of logic, particularly when attributed to Dutch producers, just conjures a lot of negative memories from around 98. ;) When the sound died in NYC, it was just starting to get big. I really doubt people would be sick of it by now if they can still listen to synth stabby gabber in Europe where, when you throw a little distortion and filter work on the shit, everyone pretends it's ****ing industrial. :p

[anode]

tocsin i think you needa check ya ego if you think theres nothin much new about the hardcore scene since the NYC sound.

i used to get into it sure but there is no denying that that sound was quite RAVE based in its sound and hardcore since then has moved forward for the better.

even back in ...95...stuff like Outcast Clan/Crapshoot was in my mind a hell of a lot better and pushing boundaries with their breed of Industrial Acid Hardcore..

i generally dont stay upfront with whats happening in any genre but the last hardcore i bought was stuff by John Dark and Psykotropp...some crazy phuturistic hardcore there!

old Skullblower **** that was some mad driving core to the bone! nothin like NYC Hardcore.

peace.

[DJ Enigma]

Back to the topic... ;)

I guess if there is a hardcore ideology it would be for it to be a way of life... Total immersion in the music, the people, the parties and everything in life that went with it...

Since i left university and joined the 'real world' of work i've steadily lost touch with what it all really meant to me with the change in my priorities... To be honest i'm pretty ****ing resentful of what's happened and i'm only beginning to realise now how far of the path of ideals i've really gone.. The dreams i had 3 years ago have been slowly quoshed by reality and it's sucking the energy out of me.....

It's something i've had to do in order to eventually get back onto it though.. Pay off debts, make some money, get my own house and get to a place where i can rejoin that lifestyle and sustain it, without being answerable to anyone..

Musically i've given more thought to what makes me tick and it's only after reading elsewhere that i found the words to describe what i love about hardcore... I love music to have a narrative, something in the music that has a progressesion but doesn't necessarily have to convey a message.. You can apply that globally to every influence of good hardcore. I guess a narrative is at the heart of the artists expression, without which the music, as Ben Kidney has touched, lacks heart....

[tocsin]

tocsin i think you needa check ya ego if you think theres nothin much new about the hardcore scene since the NYC sound.

Hold up! That is NOT what I said at all.

i used to get into it sure but there is no denying that that sound was quite RAVE based in its sound and hardcore since then has moved forward for the better.

Don't see the point here unless "rave" is a dirty word. But, whatever. At the raves here, it's the "dutch" sound that still gets played the most, just as it was back then, because it's barely strayed from DJ Paul's formula. Thus, when dutch producers have dropped that line about NYC, I take issue with it.

Either way, I think you're reading more into what I said. I'm hardly pretending that NYC was the be all end all sound. I just disagree with the concept that people got sick of it and that's why it stopped. Being here and experiencing the shit that happened, it literally died. It was it's own sound with it's own small core scene that, for a short period of time, got kinda big until it self-destructed.

[Ben Kidney]

And that fair enough for back then...I suppose it's gotta be a good thing that stuff like that still gets played at 'raves', the only things you get at raves here is happycore and D.J. Paul...Anyways, the point is, people moved on, and so did the music, eventually, as they should, like I've said before, there's no point without progress...And some progression is what is needed here and now, it's a vicious circle, people catch onto a good thing, play it to death, love it for a few years then **** it off...That's where we are now, again, at the ****ing off stage...IMO...

[anode]

tocsin i think you needa check ya ego if you think theres nothin much new about the hardcore scene since the NYC sound.

Hold up! That is NOT what I said at all.

i used to get into it sure but there is no denying that that sound was quite RAVE based in its sound and hardcore since then has moved forward for the better.

Don't see the point here unless "rave" is a dirty word. But, whatever. At the raves here, it's the "dutch" sound that still gets played the most, just as it was back then, because it's barely strayed from DJ Paul's formula. Thus, when dutch producers have dropped that line about NYC, I take issue with it.

Either way, I think you're reading more into what I said. I'm hardly pretending that NYC was the be all end all sound. I just disagree with the concept that people got sick of it and that's why it stopped. Being here and experiencing the shit that happened, it literally died. It was it's own sound with it's own small core scene that, for a short period of time, got kinda big until it self-destructed.

ok no worries. a simple misunderstanding via net forum communication... im sure

id much rather hear the NYC stuff at a 'rave' than that awful dutch stuff for sure!

havnt really heard any IS records type releases of late but they still have the same style as always yer? even german artists are makin that sound still im sure...

[tocsin]

Nah, it's cool. I just wanted to be sure I was being clear. I'm not the type of fool that pretends that a certain region produced the pinnacle of hardcore techno, with everything coming afterwards being shit. If hardcore techno died around the time the NYC sound did, I'd have stopped listening. But, in my opinion, right around that time the UK and France were putting out some killer new sounds which are probably my favorites to this day. Hell, I don't even like NYC. I just unfortunately live close by. ;)