I'm a bit worried

[Jay Pace]

How do you "know" though?
There's always got to be an element of public acclaim, otherwise its just conceit.
Music is meant to be heard, getting it heard is difficult and some people will never get heard.

If it makes you happy brilliant, but I think few people can claim success based solely on their own opinion of their worth.

Not trying to be radgy mate ;) and essentially I agree with you but I think that any artist has to work pretty hard to get people's attention. It isn't enough to just have talent, you have to work hard selling yourself, and thats going to involve money somewhere down the line.

[holotropik]

Not at all....people will tell you what they think and their reaction also shows you what they think...how they treat you differently over time and what people you havent met think and treat you. Feedback is way more subtle than just dollar returns. People talk and spread the word. other artists in your genre also talk amongst themselves. Lots goes on behind your back, which takes time and its degree is determined by your input and determination.

The most important thing is being a character....a personality as such that people remember. Even in sport this is important sometimes more than your talent or abilities. How many sportstars do you know that had a few good games and maybe one a champ or two but can no longer 'cut it'.....they remain prety successful nonetheless and some even do better. Its because they have a character or personality that they wield in front of them. People remember that whether they like you or not.....they still remember it and connect to it.

Art of any kind will never work within the framework of an economy. As soon as you use money as the aim for art it gets watered down into formulaic tripe that is more a formula than a creative expression. I would think that is obvious in this day and age. Art gets corrupted by economics and made into a transient trend that soon wears out its welcome only to be replaced by the next trendy thing and so on....milked and left dry so that no-one ever goes back there. Thats called exploitation and is something that big business has perfected in all aspects of our life....just look at the poor state of our world right now. Business has no future left as it has just about used everything up.

To know requires you to be connected intimately with your community. It means you have to listen to what people say and how they react to your expression. You have to put yourself aside and read between the lines. You have to be able to analyse your path and see 'ego-lessly' how far you have come and what you represent. You have to know why people want to go out and dance and be silly in the first place. What do they want from someone like you? What can you give them?

You essentially play/write in order to communicate something to people.....why? What are you trying to say. Is it getting through? How do they react? What do they say?

Where will you go next? Will you follow someone elses lead or will you stand out by yourself in your own words/actions.

[Jay Pace]

Excellent response.

Art of any kind will never work within the framework of an economy

Disagree. Your motivations for creating art can be pure, and then you can employ your business acumen to market it and sell it. It doesn't follow that you are making art for money.

To know requires you to be connected intimately with your community. It means you have to listen to what people say and how they react to your expression.

It is extremely difficult and impractical to do this. One of the best ways to connect with your community is to reach them through established channels (clubs, radio) and modes of distribution (record & mp3 releases).l

Your points on exploitation and having "character" are spot on.

[Mindful]

depends on how you measure success....??

boats, cars, houses...
or
knowing.

Word.

Exelent arguments from both of you, very intreasting thoughts indeed.

You both deserve a biscuit

[The Divide]

depends on how you measure success....??

boats, cars, houses...
or
knowing.

Word.

Exelent arguments from both of you, very intreasting thoughts indeed.

You both deserve a biscuit

Add bitches to that list :lol:

[module]

weird...

i stopped buying vinyl for a few reasons.. no clubs to play it in, lack of cash, and familiarity with the music itself.

i prefer to write my own tunes & loops (for shame lol) and play those with Live.

i have little or no interest in using vinyl as i cant play my own material.

and tbh, i'm more into my shit than anyone elses right now lol




i think taking the money out of techno will bring ti back to what it was about in the first place... music.

[dirty_bass]

weird...

i stopped buying vinyl for a few reasons.. no clubs to play it in, lack of cash, and familiarity with the music itself.

i prefer to write my own tunes & loops (for shame lol) and play those with Live.

i have little or no interest in using vinyl as i cant play my own material.

and tbh, i'm more into my shit than anyone elses right now lol




i think taking the money out of techno will bring ti back to what it was about in the first place... music.

Unfortunately, to take the money out of techno will stop the techno.

People need equipment.
Clubs need to make money to stay open, blah blah blah.
It won`t work for free.
I ran a free party system for years, on a very large free party network.
It leads nowhere, and eventually other commitments take over.

[Komplex]

Survival instincts DO get nasty. I found that here in OZ. Lots of slammed doors I felt.

More like no doors, just a desert wasteland. Mad Max style.

[Komplex]

It won`t work for free.
It leads nowhere, and eventually other commitments take over.

Yep, no money means you have to get a job ;). And then you don't get enough time for music...

All this free business is good in thoery but doesn't work in the long run unless you are a millionaire, or you are somehow self sufficient enough so that you never ever have to go anywhere or buy anything... and you can build your own computers and instruments and don't need globalised corporations like roland/korg/yamaha/intel to bring you gear to any country in the world at a price that is high but still affordable if you work for it.

Unfortunately we all live in reality, whether peoples minds accept that or not...

[holotropik]

Of course money is necessary...but...it shouldnt be the main drive. It shouldnt be the point. Its mainly an egotistical thing now.

We all know to well what the economics of business does to music, it leads to the watered down formulaic crap that we hear everyday now. The business goes for the easy safe option everytime rather than stand behind something new and evolutionary. Business is its own worst enemy in that sense.

I am always surprized at how short-sighted labels and established artists are when it comes to supporting the next generation. What most big-time orgs do is milk it until they have nothing left then leave a barren wasteland. Humans do this in all aspects of our activities. Why dont the big-names with the infrastructure keep planting seeds in new fertile ground so that they will have something to live off when they burn out???

I am trying to explain a mentality that doesnt think ahead enough...

I know if I was a big name I would be listening for younger talent all the time. If I found one I would support and develop that talent, put it under the banner of my label, add more......so that when i want to 'bow-out' I can still support a scene and draw an income. Makes good sense really.
What we tend to see is greedy fools who milk it then say "Thats it I've had enough....thanks....seeya" Not many actually develop a long term plan....

[Komplex]

this does happen Glen, there are people and labels that do and will nurture something if/when they find it... and even when that happens, there has to be financial backing to build and develop something...

be positive man, you will eventually find that connection. If not, or if you get impatient, you will have to jump in and have a go at doing what you beleive all these other big names and labels "should" be doing...

...but its heaps easier said than done.

[Ritzi Lee]

I know if I was a big name I would be listening for younger talent all the time. If I found one I would support and develop that talent, put it under the banner of my label, add more......

That's a good attitude.
But as label you must always be fair.
If the music you get is not quality, then it's not worth releasing it..

But if there is a talent who makes great music, and knows how to communicate with labels, then it's cool.