The perfect kick

[loopdon]

found this link and it is quite interesting regarding setting levels etc:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/s...p;pagenumber=1

"I've had one or two PMs lately asking me how to get a good Kick sound. This seems to be as a consequence of my questioning the virility of some kicks that are showing up in tracks for review. The sound of these kicks have varied, from light window-tapping
to puke hitting the pan of a WC.

So here goes. These settings are very, very specific and have taken a lot of time to get right. They work for me, so they might just work for you. If some of the settings seem odd or bizarre, try them first before flaming me saying "That can't be right".

This presumes of course that you have a good quality kick sample to being with, and haven't just recorded granny swatting a fly with a newspaper. Raw 909s are ok, but need layering with another sample which is a bit more sleazy and dirty.

Samples MUST be in mono (as should be the bass), otherwise these settings are screwed.

The input level of the sample should be at 0db or a little less.

EQ
Use the high-pass filter to roll of frequencies less than 40hz.
Use the notch filter at around 800hz.
That will do for now. You can get creative later.

Compression
Here we're looking for gain reduction of 8db.

Threshold: -10db
Attack: 0ms
Release: 50 to 100ms
Ratio: 8:1
Knee: hard

Set the make-up gain so that the level comes back to 0db.

(Using the Logic compressor make sure Peak is selected and you can use
the auto-gain feature)

So far so good.

The Kick and Bass must be compressed together.
So create a stereo Group in Cubase or a stereo Bus object in Logic.
Set the kick channel output to that group or bus.

Insert a compressor here. Gain reduction should be -6db.

Threshold: -8db
Attack: 0ms
Release: 80ms
Ratio: 9:1
Knee: hard to soft

Do NOT adjust the make-up gain. Leave it at 0.

The channel fader should be reading -8db with just the kick playing.
Why -8? well you need to produce a mix with an overall output level of -3 to -4db.
When you add in all of the other elements that's what the mix should be.

Mastering will then bring up the overall level and the final level for the kick
should be -3db mastered.

Now suck and see.


... and


Good point.
Typical settings I use for a mono bass are...

Fader Volume: -6db to -10db depending on the bass source
EQ: High-Pass at 50hz and a notch at 400hz, low-pass at 4khz

The bass needs to be compressed also prior to being routed to the Kick/Bass bus.

Threshold: -12db
Attack: .5 to 1ms
Release: 50ms
Ratio: 4:1
Makeup-gain: +4db

To get the kick/bass combination flowing well, use the level fader on the bass - leave the kick alone.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think there should be a mthod to the perfect kick.
You get some producers and it`s just the same kick on each track.
I try to do something different with the kicks on each track.
Lawrie immersion is a good example of the less obvious kick.
Sometimes with Poundoung Grooves, he takes these really wimpy sounding, light slap round the face 808 kicks and compresses em too ****.
Sounds a bit wimpy at home, but when you get it on a rig, it`s just full of sub, and the little click on top becomes a huge chest slap.
I say go for the less obvious, rather than the maccaffer cliche 909

[loopdon]

very true, i was mainly interesting in the level settings that are given. i was very impressed by the kicks in your 'walking in the black rain'. so round and nice. that made me want to experiment again. atm i am really feeling microtonic 2.0. you can really shape a kick the way you want it and until it fits.

i am sorry, but i have got to admit i told a friend the one person i would want to go into a studio with would be you atm, steve :)

i really dig your sound, esp. the 'black rain thing' :)

[dirty_bass]

hehe, that`s ok.
I very rarely work in collaboration with people these days, and it`s something I really must do.
Feel free to come visit if you are ever in london, th eamount of help you have done for me on here with all those damn superb plugins, I`d be willing to return the favour in the studio anytime.
I`ve got a bif tutorial I`ve been writing when I`ve not been doing music that I`ll post up here soon.
It`s a guide to production, not so much hard rules, but ideas and methods for improvement, and little tricks and stuff you can do that has practical applications to techno and stuff.

[loopdon]

that's very nice of you. an uncle of mine lives in london and i am half english/half german, so i think the communication would work as well. i would really like to come and visit you when time provides!!

i am glad you appreciate my efforts in trying to share my vst-finds with likeminded people.

at times i think i know far to many vsts, which often leaves me trying and experimenting far more than actually putting tracks together. it is actually pretty sick :paranoid:

the tutorial you were talking about would be very welcome, i would value any contributions from you to this part of the forum a great deal.

offtopic and general rant:

i know i keep rambling on about this, but why is it forums like dogs on acid are so full of sample packs and production advice and offer things like q&a's with big name producers and here it seems to flow so much slower?? is it because this forum isn't as easily accessible or what? or is it more about the 'techno mentality'??

i really wonder why there is so much interesting stuff in the filez section and so little advice on production by lots of these knwledgeable people in the production parts?? sometimes it really baffles me, tbh, esp. when i see how much is written in the parts like the techno/hard tech forums???

[TechMouse]

i know i keep rambling on about this, but why is it forums like dogs on acid are so full of sample packs and production advice and offer things like q&a's with big name producers and here it seems to flow so much slower?? is it because this forum isn't as easily accessible or what? or is it more about the 'techno mentality'??

The whole ideology of Techno is much more incongruent with Sample Packs, I would say. I mean, samples of drum machine noises is one thing, but the whole ethos of Techno places much more emphasis on wild experimentation and creating unique sounds.

You get loads of mileage out of a sampled breakbeat run through ReCycle, as far as D&B is concerned, without even layering on the FX. Techno is not so forgiving.

i really wonder why there is so much interesting stuff in the filez section and so little advice on production by lots of these knwledgeable people in the production parts?? sometimes it really baffles me, tbh, esp. when i see how much is written in the parts like the techno/hard tech forums???

I guess there's no substitue for personal experimentation.

Any given producer could tell you exactly how they went about making the noises in their most recent track, but that would only tell you how to make that track, if you get my meaning.

There's room for basic pointers... use of compression, EQing, bussing etc.

But the devil is well and truly in the detail.

That's my 2p, anyway.

[loopdon]

@techmouse: you are right off course, but even if someone did a step by step on a track it would be pretty interesting, esp. for people new to this and eager to suck in every bit of information they can get. i know i was!! mmmh, maybe i should do that myself one day

but am i totally out of my mind asking for a little more participation in this part of boa? or is that just me?? i mean i sucked up so much information from ze migel`s posts for example, they were so extremely helpful, just as an example. i feel sorry about the fact that he hasn`t been active for a very long time...

[dirty_bass]

Well, I`d love to help out mate
That`s why I`m doing this guide to production
There`s plenty of opportunity to Q&A in here, I`m notsure what other things would be helpful in here.
Your plugin list alone keeps many people very happy

[loopdon]

Thanks a lot for your support and appreciation, steve!

Means a lot to me

I am really looking forward to your production guide.

PS: You inspired me to do some more updating on the
VST Thread :cheese:

[TechMouse]

but even if someone did a step by step on a track it would be pretty interesting

Oh, I agree totally.

God knows how many times I've listened to tracks by people from this very board and though "**** me! How do you make that noise!"

Didn't mean to come across all moralistic, sorry!

[loopdon]

but even if someone did a step by step on a track it would be pretty interesting

Oh, I agree totally.

God knows how many times I've listened to tracks by people from this very board and though "**** me! How do you make that noise!"

Didn't mean to come across all moralistic, sorry!

Let's just be friends :lol:

Nah, mate, no problem. I think we think in similar ways!!

Maybe we could get something started along these lines, with project files (i have fruity loops here/perhaps ableton, too ;) )midi files perhaps and loops and oneshots. I know this has been done allready but without the project/midi files.
Problems might arise when it comes to using vst-plugins, so i think we should, if possible rely on freeware in this respect. There's so much good stuff in the freeware domain, both synth and effects wise that this shouldn't be a problem, i think. :cheese:

If someone had a little webspace on offer i think that would be great in order to share copyright free samples etc. as well, probably organized in categories like kicks etc., with subcategories starting with the username, i.e. Kicks\loopdon etc.

Anyone feel this?? :)

[Stodgy]

Thanks for the step by step loopdon, really good advice if used in the right sort of tune. Nice 1 ;)

[loopdon]

@stdogy: what the hell are you talking about - teh minimal???
it was just an idea, sorry :roll: :) :) ;)

[Mindful]

Oooh looking forward to your guide Stevie.

Anyways.....
Want to say somthing regarding what Loopdon is saying about this forum and our input.
This place is realy quiet compared to how it used to be and used to be the only part of the forum I ever realy spent any time in.
When I first joined I just used too read thru old post and loved this place.
And ze migel was such a huge help to me personaly when I first joined and is truly missed.
I would love to see as much activity in here as there is in the techno forum.
I guess thats down to us lot but fair play to Loopdon for allways trying to get things going and the vst thread realy does have some intresting things in there and a lot of secret weapons(alltho I aint gonna reveal which ones I favour and use regulary cause its a secret hehe :razz: )

[Mindful]

Oh and aggreed mr Pounding grooves is the master of the uderstated punchy non existent yet amaxingly pounding super comressed kickdrum.

[loopdon]

Thanks, mindful. Let's all go full force again! And make this a busier place again. If there is anything i could do to get this done, i would like to be helpful :lol:

[etnarama]

i must agree this forum is awfully quiet.... and my compatriot ZE... where is he?????
i visit this forum every single day, and whenever i can say something i contribute.... publicise it guys!!!!